When Howard becomes a possibility, all the boo birds disappear?

[Diesel]

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2011/12/28/atlanta-hawks-dangling-for-dwight-howard/?cxntfid=blogs_hawks

Well, well, the Hawks are interested in Howard.

Here's my thing, as the deadline approaches, Otis Smith will give up on his plan to resign Howard. Horford for Howard will start to sound really good by then. Horf, Longterm, UF graduate who is also a 2 time allstar for a player that is leaving?

I hope Marvin keeps up the good play so that he can be included in this deal.

[macdaddy]

Maybe if we're looking like one of the best teams in the east. This just never happens to the Hawks. I think somehow he ends up in LA. Check this article. TMac doesn't even mention him coming to Atlanta. Not that Tmac is an expert.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AsuRy2NxKxEAUviF3UQ_QjS8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_tracy_mcgrady_dwight_howard_nba_122811

[Buzzard]

I did read a article that stated Orlando was not looking to rebuild with picks so that makes a package of good players attractive; but I still do not think Orlando ships him to a division rival. I just do not see that. It would be like New Orleans trading Breeze to Tampa Bay. You just don't do that IMO.

Howard will bring plenty of offers, including a possible Gasol and\or Bynum one from LA.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Buzzard

[Guest]

SMH...can we all just leave the trade speculation and just enjoy the Hawks play and watch them shock the world..... at least until the trade deadline gets closer

[Diesel]

Maybe if we're looking like one of the best teams in the east. This just never happens to the Hawks. I think somehow he ends up in LA. Check this article. TMac doesn't even mention him coming to Atlanta. Not that Tmac is an expert.

http://sports.yahoo....ward_nba_122811

As I read into what Tmac is saying.. He's not suggesting that Howard stay in Orlando (period). He is saying that you want to go to a team with the championship calibre to get you a title. i.e. Your Atlanta Hawks. No... not really, but Tmac can't suggest to Howard to push for a trade. That would be kinda two faced. However, if Howard heeds Tmac's words then it may be possible that Howard starts to consider Atlanta strongly.

I did read a article that stated Orlando was not looking to rebuild with picks so that makes a package of good players attractive; but I still do not think Orlando ships him to a division rival. I just do not see that. It would be like New Orleans trading Breeze to Tampa Bay. You just don't do that IMO.

Howard will bring plenty of offers, including a possible Gasol and\or Bynum one from LA.

The whole thought of divisional rivals makes no sense.

He's gone either way.

You have to face us either way.

Would you rather face us and you have Hedo at Center or would you face us and you have Horf at C.

I have never seen this divisional rival stuff play out in the NBA. It's really stupid. IF your divisional rival has the best package to offer, you don't slight your team to get at a divisional rival?? It's only going to be one champion. The name of the game is not win the division, it's win the championship. You put yourself in a better position to do that if you get the best deal you can.

[NekiEcko]

I did read a article that stated Orlando was not looking to rebuild with picks so that makes a package of good players attractive; but I still do not think Orlando ships him to a division rival. I just do not see that. It would be like New Orleans trading Breeze to Tampa Bay. You just don't do that IMO. Howard will bring plenty of offers, including a possible Gasol and\or Bynum one from LA.

But LA has already say that they WILL NOT trade Gasol and Bynum for D12. But here is what I see, each day that that trade doesnt happen, they are going to be losing more value, period. Besides, Hawks deal is almost better than Lakers because Gasol is much older and Bynum is always injured and Orlando needs more than. Actually trades does happen with Division rival (think Orland and Washington last year). Right now, the best value is Atlanta, Chicago and LA. For us, if he signed the ext, then we can send them Horford (Actually fits better in Orlando offense) and others.

[coachx]

I have to correct a couple of blatant errors / ommissions.

The whole thought of divisional rivals makes some sense.

He's gone either way.

You have to face us 2 times a year if traded to the West but 4 times a year if traded to the Hawks with the potential playoff matchups blocking the Magic franchise for the next decade.

Would you rather face us and you have Hedo a Gasol and Bynum combo at Center or would you rather face us and you have Horf at C with a Joe Johnson.

I have never seen this divisional rival stuff play out in the NBA. It's really stupid. IF your divisional rival has the best package to offer, you don't slight your team to get at a divisional rival?? It's only going to be one champion. The name of the game is not win the division, it's win the championship. You put yourself in a better position to do that if you get the best deal you can.

The Bucks traded Kareem out of conference in his prime.

The Magic should have traded Shaq out of conference like the Lakers did.

The 76ers traded Barkley out of conference in his prime.

There is a history of HOF players, when in their prime, being traded out of conference rather then within their own conference division.

Edited December 29, 2011 by coachx

[NekiEcko]

The Bucks traded Kareem out of conference.

The Magic traded Shaq out of conference

The 76ers traded Barkley out of conference

The Knicks traded Ewing out of conference

The Hawks traded Nique out of conference

There is a long history of HOF players being traded out of conference rather then within their own conference division.

Actually Shaq never was trade from Magic, he signed with the Lakers but he was traded to Heat. But sometimes, if you cant find value in any other deals, then you have to go to the best thing. Besides, the Lakers already have a thin frontline and give up Gasol and Bynum right now. God forbids what happens if D12 got into foul trouble. With those two If Bynum gets into foul trouble then Gasol takes over but with D12 you wont get that.

With Al and JJ, you get a very good value with a very young Center/PF that is from the area and can be a vocal point for the young Latinos that lives there and a vet SG that is in the Top 5 and All-Star every year.

Edited December 29, 2011 by NekiEcko

[coachx]

Actually Shaq never was trade from Magic, he signed with the Lakers but he was traded to Heat.

Correct

[Diesel]

I have to correct a couple of blatant errors / ommissions.

The Bucks traded Kareem out of conference in his prime.

The Magic traded Shaq out of conference as did the Lakers with him still being in his prime both times.

The 76ers traded Barkley out of conference in his prime.

There is a history of HOF players, when in their prime, being traded out of conference rather then within their own conference division.

I never said out of conference deals don't happen. What I'm saying is show me the in division rival with better deals that these teams turned down?

BTW, Shaq was not traded to LAL. He just wanted to play the game, drink pepsi and wear reebok. He signed with LAL as a FA.

You won't find it with Kareem because he wanted to go to LAL for religious reasons.

You won't find it with Barkley, he was traded for the best deal that they could find.

[NekiEcko]

I agreed with Diesel here,

So the basic question is: Are you going to trade to a team that value is much lower but not in your division/conference or trade to a division rival that has the best value for a trade.

Magic Leadership needs just to trade him and get it over with because it will hang over their heads the entire season and you can started the rebuilding process or contented for a playoff spot.

[Buzzard]

I never said out of conference deals don't happen. What I'm saying is show me the in division rival with better deals that these teams turned down?

BTW, Shaq was not traded to LAL. He just wanted to play the game, drink pepsi and wear reebok. He signed with LAL as a FA.

You won't find it with Kareem because he wanted to go to LAL for religious reasons.

You won't find it with Barkley, he was traded for the best deal that they could find.

Coach gave you good information regarding HOF players that were sent on their way out of the conference or division. You can also include last years BIG BIG deals with Melo, Deron, and both Bosh and Bron were at least out of division.

Its not that out of division and conference deals do not happen. They do all the time. What some of us are saying is great players do not get traded to division rivals. History supports this. So if you want to argue differently, go find us two or three similar big time deals that did involve division rivals. Best of luck with that....

Edited December 29, 2011 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

If the Magic were inclined to do such a disasterous trade, I think it would have to be Smoove and Horford for Howard and Hedo. And even that may not be enough for them to deal with facing Howard so often in their own division.

[NekiEcko]

If the Magic were inclined to do such a disasterous trade, I think it would have to be Smoove and Horford for Howard and Hedo. And even that may not be enough for them to deal with facing Howard so often in their own division.

Then again, you have to think, you will actually get lower value just because you are trading to out of conference foe, then the fans might want your head.

If I was Orlando, I will traded D12 to a team that will give me the best value regrads if they are in the same division or not, besides its a high possibity that D12 wont resigned, so they only have to face them only one season, so they will be fine.

[bird_dirt]

the espn reported rumor speculated jj and smoove going to orl, but as most of us here would speculate, it would be more likely to include horf over smoove.

as far as jj is concerned, it seems to make sense to me, even if it entails getting hedo's contract back. hedo is only 2, maybe 3, years left, jj has 5 (including this year). i wasn't so upset with the jj resigning because i was saying back then, signing him to that large of a deal allowed us to go over the soft cap (which we couldn't have done by signing free agents), and we could try trading him in a year or two into his contract and get something back in return worth while (as it would seem we are trying to do with howard).

i wouldn't mind if this deal happens. in fact, i'd probably prefer it, even without howard resigning. up until the first two games against bad teams this season, everyone and their mother has said how the hawks have hit their ceiling, good but not elite. the only way to shake it up enough is with a major player added to the roster (like with howard or the failed paul trade). getting him would give a fresh opportunity at the finals. if we fail and howard walks, then we are left with some cap space and a coach and gm on expired contracts, a situation ripe for re-inventing this team, which is what we would need to do anyway if our current roster is unable to get "over the hump".

[hawkrule152]

I dont know if i like this trade at all for us.. We would have to put hinrich at SG? or willie green? no thankyou

[NekiEcko]

But Hinrich will be pat of that deal, maybe and Green, I dont know.

I got three packages to throw out

#1

Al

JJ

KH contract

1st pick (2012/2014) - I know that we traded away the first round pick last year, so do we have to worry about the Danny Manning rule?

#2

AL

Marvin

Zaza

KH

Picks

#3

JS

KH

ZaZa

Pargo

Picks

[coachx]

But Hinrich will be part of that deal, maybe and Green, I dont know.

Maybe being the key word.

Edited December 29, 2011 by coachx

[Buzzard]

I dont know if i like this trade at all for us.. We would have to put hinrich at SG? or willie green? no thankyou

I do not see JJs big deal as part of this at all. Orlando used their amnesty up on Arenas. If this rumor is true, JJs contract was probably a big deal breaker. Smoove and Horfs deal are much better deals from a team perspective.

[NekiEcko]

Yea, i would keep Hinrich so he can teach Teague alittle bit more. I am just guessing. Also we can do the three way trade as well.

I do not see JJs big deal as part of this at all. Orlando used their amnesty up on Arenas. If this rumor is true, JJs contract was probably a big deal breaker. Smoove and Horfs deal are much better deals from a team perspective.

But we are only give up one, Al or Smooth (Al, if he resigns or Smooth if he doesnt) but here is the difference between Arenas and Johnson. Johnson is still young and got couple of good years left plus Arenas did had a couple of bad injuries and didnt play for while for legal reason. JJ doesnt have to be in the deal but Otis Smith did sign Lewis to that big contact and then trade for another one. I wont put it pass him

Edited December 29, 2011 by NekiEcko