Start hanging playoff banners

[NineOhTheRino]

That's right! They could also plan yearly playoff parades celebrating mediocrity down Peachtree. Hang em high ASG since it's clear we Hawks fans care more about making the playoffs than actually winning the darn thing.You say, "Don't you have to make the playoffs to have a chance to win it?" Yep again, but what's the point of making the playoffs if you know your team isn't good enough to win a tittle?Lord let them blow this dang thing up already. Coach, GM and players.

Edited May 7, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[Joker]

ASG are clowns. Two thumbs down for Levenson and Gearon.

[Diesel]

That's right! They could also plan yearly playoff parades celebrating mediocrity down Peachtree. Hang em high ASG since it's clear we Hawks fans care more about making the playoffs than actually winning the darn thing.

You say, "Don't you have to make the playoffs to have a chance to win it?" Yep again, but what's the point of making the playoffs if you know your team isn't good enough to win a tittle?

Lord let them blow this dang thing up already. Coach, GM and players.

I've heard this foolishness twice before.

Once when we traded Smitty, Mookie, and Deke.

Again when we traded Shareef, BIg Dog, and Terry.

Where has it taken us?

Back to the same place.

What did we learn? Obviously you learned nothing...

Well NineO... You gonna Learn today.

It is better to have talent than to have Lottery picks. OKC is an outlier. They were very lucky and had a system whereby they could identify talent. Do we have that?

Absolutely not.

But even with OKC (who everybody wants to be) they learned the lesson that I am sharing with you...

WHEN YOU HAVE TALENT, you get better by MAKING GOOD TRADES.

You want to say what made OKC great was just the draft... the answer is no. They made a Chicago bull like trade of Jeff Green for Perk.

Perkins is the beginning and end of their toughness. He and Collison. We don't have toughness... outside of IVAN. However, we have a mutlitude of talented players. We need to skillfully use the trade... not to blow up the team but to make the team better.

I mean, you want to blow up the team so that we can be what?? The Washington Wizards? The Charlotte Bobcats? or the Toronto Raptors?

Don't miss the point, there are several teams that try to build through the lottery.. do you know what happens to them? After 4 years with their lottery pick, they end up losing him to a playoff team for more lottery picks or some crap player. Don't you find it funny that there are some teams that stay in contention? Don't you also find it funny that those are the teams that everybody wants to play for?

Instead of trying to remake OKC.. why not try to remake Miami, Dallas, or Chicago? Why not aspire to be a team that can get better through trade of known quantities than try to go back and draft more Josh Childress' and Marvin Williams'.

[NineOhTheRino]

You make excellent points. But...Miami has D Wade - lotteryOKC has Durant - lotteryLAC has Blake - lotteryChicago has Rose - lotterySan Antonio has Duncan - lotteryDallas has Dirk - lotteryHawks had CP3Again I agree with with most of what you are saying but you have to admit that most of the best teams in the league just got lucky at some point. To me the formula is making good trades mixed in with some luck. Hawks were lucky enough to have CP3 in the pocket but just F'ed it up.Get that one cornerstone player first. You think LBJ even considers Miami if Wade is not there? All I'm saying is give it one more roll of the dice. Maybe you grab that CP3-like player this time around. This time...ASG has to put more thought in who's managing and coaching this team. No way in hell I'd do anything with Sund and LD running things.

Edited May 7, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[AHF]

Instead of trying to remake OKC.. why not try to remake Miami, Dallas, or Chicago? Why not aspire to be a team that can get better through trade of known quantities than try to go back and draft more Josh Childress' and Marvin Williams'.

I am with you that a big trade should be our first option and should happen before we blow the team up completely.However, I will note that Chicago is a really bad example to use. They not only trashed their team, they trashed a dynasty to jump into the rebuilding program. They then got a ton of lottery picks - many of which they squandered - including multiple #1 overall, #2 overall, etc. selections before they accumulated Rose, Noah, Deng, etc. who form the core of their recent success. So they are an example of a team built on the model you are advising we avoid.Dallas, on the other hand, is a team built on a stud owner. They have a guy who brings excitement and invests whatever is necessary to see his team succeed. They maximize their leverage with investments in coaches, scouts, their GM, their clubhouse, etc. and then use those things to acquire and attract good talent. For us to follow the Dallas model, we would need to start by getting new owners. Hopefully we see that happen.Miami again invested in managerial talent that was critical to their success. Does anyone think Lebron and Bosh come to Miami if the Heat don't go out and land Pat Riley to run the show? We need new owners to follow that model.With any of these models, you need to hit on some critical draft picks. Instead of Deng, we took Childress. Instead of Paul, we took Marvin. Instead of Rondo, we took Shelden. We capped ourselves out by blowing high potential picks.To me the best model for the Hawks might actually be something along the improvements in recent years by the Memphis Grizzlies. They lack a stud but they took some risks and went out and landed guys like Zach Randolph who have been key to taking them to the next level. The Grizzlies don't have the cache of Miami or Dallas and can't compete for guys like Lebron or Deron, but they have put together a pretty deep and versatile roster and have acquired some key assets in trades (Randolph, Gasol especially).

[Joker]

The Memphis model is the best model for us. I agree with AHF. We need to use the Memphis model but the problem is ASG are the dumbest ownership group in the NBA. They need to rip teams off right now or trade and win the trade. The Jamal trade was a great one. We got a 6th man who was used wrong as a starting #1 option for min value. We need land guys like Mayo for that. Guys like Z-bo who wasn't good fits for most NBA teams but if you build around him with the right personnel and coaching, you can overachieve. Horford and Joe need to stay. Joe is legit top tier Robin. Horford is a legit top 3-5 center and top 3-5 PF but needs a PnR PG which isn't likely at all. I would bring in J. Kidd at the MLE if we miss on Nash just to showcase Horford and maybe land a future PnR PG in FA. We have two championship level players but need a superstar and lack the depth to win. Marvin needs to be traded. Most likely for Mayo, I don't care how many picks we trade either.Teague needs to be benched. We need to find his replacement in FA or via trade. He is a quality backup but he doesn't fit what we need. He is as effective as Anthony Johnson. Blowing it up won't work because Atlanta just isn't that bad. You would have to take a major loss for Joe and you would have to get some value for Smith that would help us. No shitty role players and lame picks. We need something that could be legit. To be honest, I wouldn't mind adding MKG, or Drummond and an extra pick for Josh Smith. It just can't be for scrubs or Acie Law types.I personnally think our biggest needs are:PG#1 optionTrue CenterSF who fits6th manCritical needs are PG and #1 option. Teague is not a starting PG. I don't care what anyone on here says, that man isn't any good for our team at starting PG. He is worse at PG than starting Marvin at SF. Pargo isn't a NBA player. He needs to go. T-Mac needs to retire. Damp does too. Vlad can stay. Ivan can stay but not for a lot. Value is important. Hinrich needs to go and he will likely go as well. It's best for both parties.

[Diesel]

You make excellent points. But...

Miami has D Wade - lottery

OKC has Durant - lottery

LAC has Blake - lottery

Chicago has Rose - lottery

San Antonio has Duncan - lottery

Dallas has Dirk - lottery

Hawks had CP3

Again I agree with with most of what you are saying but you have to admit that most of the best teams in the league just got lucky at some point. To me the formula is making good trades mixed in with some luck. Hawks were lucky enough to have CP3 in the pocket but just F'ed it up.

Get that one cornerstone player first. You think LBJ even considers Miami if Wade is not there?

All I'm saying is give it one more roll of the dice. Maybe you grab that CP3-like player this time around.

This time...ASG has to put more thought in who's managing and coaching this team. No way in hell I'd do anything with Sund and LD running things.

Would you say LAC was better when they had just Blake or now that they have Blake, Paul, and the rest?

LAC wised up and traded their talent that they had drafted (Kaman, Gordon) for a bonafide superstar.

You can say similar about the Knicks.

You can say the same about the Bulls.

Sure, it's nice to have a lottery pick.

But who is to say that you won't be the next NJ, Washington, or Cleveland.

Here's something interesting. I will take the top 5 picks from the 5 yr period from 2006 - 2010.. Let's see how they are doing:

2010

1. John Wall - Washington

2. Evan Turner - Philly

3. Derrick Favors - NJ

4. Wesley Johnson - Minny

5. Demarcus Cousins - SacTown

2009

1. Blake Griffin - LAC

2. Hasheem Thabeet - Memphis

3. James Harden - OKC

4. Tyreke Evans - SacTown

5. Ricky Rubio - Minny

2008

1. Derrick Rose - Chicago

2. Michael Beasley - Miami

3. Hold the Mayo - Memphis

4. Russell Westbrook - OKC

5. Kevin Love - Minnesota

2007

1. Greg Oden - Portland

2. Kevin Durant - OKC

3. Al Horford - Atlanta

4. Mike Conley - Memphis

5. Jeff Green - Boston (traded to OKC)

2006

1. Andrea Bargnani - Toronto

2. LaMarcus Aldrich - Portland

3. Adam Morrison - Charlotte

4. Tyrus Thomas - Chicago

5. Shelden Williams - Atlanta

I have taken the liberty to Bolden those draft picks who are contributors to their playoff teams right now.

10 out of 20... 50% are on playoff teams and they make significant contributions.

There are a lot of disappointments in this list.

Also note that teams like Atlanta, Memphis, OKC, and Minnesota took a lot of stabs at it. Minnesota took many stabs at the high lottery with very little to show (playoff wise).

The key is to amass talent and trade for good players like Miami, like LAC, like LAL, like most successful teams.

[AHF]

The key is to amass talent and trade for good players like Miami, like LAC, like LAL, like most successful teams.

The Hornets decided to sell Paul off and the Clippers won that bidding, so I get the inclusion of Paul here. Bear in mind, however, that we did try to pull of this trade and simply failed.The Lakers drafted their two best players (Kobe & Bynum) and got a gift with Gasol. That would be the ideal.Miami traded for exactly zero impact players on their team. They signed free agents and consumated the free agents signings with "trades" that gave Toronto and Cleveland almost nothing but a little something better than nothing. They aren't a good example for your argument.

[hawkrule152]

Critical needs are PG and #1 option. Teague is not a starting PG. I don't care what anyone on here says, that man isn't any good for our team at starting PG. He is worse at PG than starting Marvin at SF. Pargo isn't a NBA player. He needs to go. T-Mac needs to retire. Damp does too. Vlad can stay. Ivan can stay but not for a lot. Value is important. Hinrich needs to go and he will likely go as well. It's best for both parties.

You got about everything their wrong. Teague has been pretty good this year and is only going to get better. Worse at PG that Marv at SF? That may be the dumbest statement ive ever read on this site, and thats saying ALOT. Pargo has been great this year until the playoffs. VLAD HAS GOT TO GO. HE BRINGS NOTHING TO THE TEAM. HE IS THE WEAKEST NBA PLAYER ALIVE.

[Joker]

Teague has not been good. That's the shit that gets on my nerves the most. More than Smith's offensive BBIQ, more than Joe's contract is people on here trying to tell me Teague is good when he's not. When I watch this guy, I see Anthony Johnson type of impact. He really only doing anything numbers wise because of limited options. You talk about his defense but he's shit at it. F*** numbers, look at the game. It's like JaVale McGee for PG's. That might be cool to you but when you have the team the Hawks have, we need a lot more from that position especially if the other positions in the NBA might not be upgradable. He is a bottom five starting PG.Better PG's:RondoDeronHoildayJose C.JenningsRoseIrvingRookie B. KnightWallNelsonEvery starting PG in the WC is better than Teague except for I. Thomas with Sac-Town. He is a rookie drafted last overall and he is just as good as Teague.Pargo is horrible.

Edited May 7, 2012 by AHF

[Joker]

combo's guards or backup PG's better than Teague:DragicGeorge HillBraeaMayoMo WilliamsBillupsT. Evans

[Joker]

Zaza is average but he's middle of the pack for NBA centers. He is in the 16-21 range. Horford is in the top 3-5. Smith 3-6. Joe 3-6, we need a SF but those guys aren't as important as a PG in a guard dominant system like Atlanta's.

[Wretch]

That's right! They could also plan yearly playoff parades celebrating mediocrity down Peachtree. Hang em high ASG since it's clear we Hawks fans care more about making the playoffs than actually winning the darn thing.

You say, "Don't you have to make the playoffs to have a chance to win it?" Yep again, but what's the point of making the playoffs if you know your team isn't good enough to win a tittle?

Lord let them blow this dang thing up already. Coach, GM and players.

+1'd the bolded for it's lol-worthiness.

...

...lol

[hawkrule152]

Still cant believe you said you would rather keep VLAD than Teague. Thats just retarded. Vlad has been awful this year. There is a reason he never plays and its because he cant match up with a single PF or SF in the league. Everybody over powers him cause hes a p*ssy and cant rebound or box out for shit.I agree with you we need to make a trade or change the team up cause it will be the same shit every year, no exception.

Edited May 7, 2012 by hawkrule152

[Joker]

Vlad is a 10-12 man. He really shouldn't see the court much. Vlad 3pt presence and gives us a spot shooter with range who is a big.Teague needs to go if ASG has intentions of being a starting PG. If they just want to make him a backup. I would like him at best in a 7-10 man role playing type of spot.

Edited May 7, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Bahamut]

Lord let them blow this dang thing up already. Coach, GM and players and owners.

Fixed.

[MaceCase]

I just realized that the team hasn't even had the honor of raising a division title over this playoff run.