What If Josh Smith is Like His Brother Alex?

[DatWerkk]

Crazy comparison, I know. But just hear me out! (from http://chasingjoejohnson.com/2012/11/what-if-josh-smith-is-like-his-brother-alex/)

Does anybody remember how turrible the 49ers’ Alex Smith was during his first five years in the NFL? I think everybody short of Smith’s momma had declared him an official bust. It probably didn’t help that he was drafted ahead of Aaron Rodgers, but I can confidently say that posting passer ratings of 40.8, 74.8, 57.2, 81.5, and 82.1 to start your career are enough to get you that label regardless of who was picked behind you. And now look at him. Passer rating of 90.7 last season. An impressive rating of 102.1 so far this season, putting him at #4 in the league. INTs are down, TDs are up. So what happened? Why is Josh’s brother Alex suddenly hot ish? James Joseph Harbaugh happened, that’s what.

More to read if you follow the link, but what do you guys think? Most people here are no big fans of Larry Drew. Couldn't he carry more blame for not coaching Smoove up? The coach can make a world of difference, and Smoove CLEARLY has talent. Maybe we should be clamoring more for someone to hold Smoove accountable and less for just getting rid of him altogether. Just a thought...

[AHF]

Maybe we should be clamoring more for someone to hold Smoove accountable and less for just getting rid of him altogether. Just a thought...

Many of us have clamored for this for years. The window on that will be officially closed after this season and the Hawks will have to either trade him, let him go, or commit a ton of $$ to him long-term. I expect us to be active at the trade deadline.

[TheTruth]

Harbaugh definitely proves that good coaching can make a big difference. Thing is, in order for good coaching to take full effect, the player has to be receptive to it (i.e. coachable). I'm not convinced that Josh is coachable, and I am even more convinced that LD isn't a strong coach like Harbaugh. LD has done nothing to reign Josh in from himself. In fact, he has even encouraged and accepted it.If we had a strong respected coach that would discipline Josh when he gets out of control, Josh could possibly get the message and start to play more to his strengths. But as I said, we have seen the last couple years that LD is NOT that coach.

[DatWerkk]

I agree! LD is not that coach. And I agree that we haven't really seen anything that suggests that Josh is coachable. So if you're playing the odds, you probably just need to get rid of him. But the thing that sucks is that Josh's coaches so far in his career haven't been particularly strong. I don't have much confidence that they even TRIED to hold him accountable.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Crazy comparison, I know. But just hear me out! (from http://chasingjoejoh...s-brother-alex/) More to read if you follow the link, but what do you guys think? Most people here are no big fans of Larry Drew. Couldn't he carry more blame for not coaching Smoove up? The coach can make a world of difference, and Smoove CLEARLY has talent. Maybe we should be clamoring more for someone to hold Smoove accountable and less for just getting rid of him altogether. Just a thought...

The biggest thing that Harbaugh gave Alex Smith was assurance and confidence. It wasn't really anything that they worked on the practice field. Alex had to deal with coaches like Mariucci (the guy that thought Harrington was worth a damn) and Singletary (a heavily defensive-minded coach who infamously sent Vernon Davis to the locker room) his whole career. Crabtree, Davis, and Gore (the run game has been HUGE for Smith) have attributed a lot to Smith's success. I have said this my whole life that a guy isn't a failure until he is placed in the best possible situation and still fails. Harbaugh was a QB and one point, reasoned with Alex and gave him a playbook. Josh's problem isn't Drew, it's that he refuses to listens his coaches. Josh gets stuck in his own way... A lot of members will say, "Well, when Josh screws up, then LD needs to hold him accountable and bench him", but the thing is that this isn't high school or college ball. These guys are professionals with a paycheck. You can't just scold a player and bench him for being boneheaded in the NBA because there is an owner and GM upstairs that are saying, "We are paying him $13.5 million for him to play, not to ride the bench". Also, with the way the NBA is setup, you also can't just cut a guy and dump his salary like you can in the NFL. Players are very protected assets in the league. The owner's are paying him to play and they don't want to see $13.5 mil rotting away on the bench during crunch time. I will say that Woody was possibly the worse thing that could have happened to Smith. Woody tried to turn a high-flying, attacking forward that plays great defense into a stretch 4. Josh is what he is and he has never had a strong, reliable jump shot... I am interested to see what a guy like Van Gundy or Sloan could do with a guy like Smith, but LD isn't Josh's biggest problem. A coaching change is always the easy answer for when players are underachieving, but another question is can an old dog learn new tricks? In other words, would a new coach be the answer and be able to crack the 9-year vet in Josh Smith to make him better? IDK...

[MaceCase]

A big part of Alex Smith's recent success is that the 9ers stopped trying to make him a playmaker and converted him into a game manager. No more trying to take the game over, just pick his spots, be efficient and let the defense and running game take over. A thing people have to realize is that even as lax as Woody was he attempted the same with Josh and it clicked for a season.......but you know what Josh was doing? Complaining behind the scenes to his good buddy LD. LD then campaigns for the job on the platform of being the "good guy" and the players backed him all the way. He of course can't go from being the "good guy" to a disciplinarian now but at the same time you have to realize that the players wanted him and there is specifically one that has seen his role skyrocket during this period.Coaching is one thing but players have to want it. I even have to question who this mysterious coach is? Look across the league, most the guys are first timers or guys who've been fired from more jobs than Lindsay Lohan. Even all of the hall of famers are questionable, Doc has a public feud with Rondo, Larry Brown is so disliked by player and GM alike that he won't even get a DLeague team in the pros, Phil Jackson is retired but has a whole book on Kobe, Sloan is available......after a player got him fired. Coaching isn't some quick fix because even the greats struggle getting to certain players.

[DatWerkk]

Good points, good points. Here's the thing that really stood out for me:

A big part of Alex Smith's recent success is that the 9ers stopped trying to make him a playmaker and converted him into a game manager. No more trying to take the game over, just pick his spots, be efficient and let the defense and running game take over.

I agree 100%. And I would say something analogous needs to happen with Josh Smith: be efficient, play to your strengths (defense, inside game, creating mismatches against 3s), and let the rest of your teammates take over. I see no evidence that he's willing to do that or that he's been told or even ASKED to do that, despite the fact that it seems like the obvious way to go. But you say this is what Mike Woodson tried to do with Josh, and that it led to him complaining behind the scenes and getting Woodson fired. I was so busy with grad school during those years I couldn't really keep up with the inner workings, so I guess I'll have to take your word on that one. I've never heard that and in fact find it hard to believe. Even the idea that Woodson would get Josh to agree to change his playing style is hard for me to believe based on what I saw during the rest of his tenure. When Woodson got fired it was obvious to any casual Hawks observer that it was necessary and inevitable, just from how little respect he got or control he had. The idea that he get Josh to listen even for part of a season seems doubtful.

Coaching is one thing but players have to want it. I even have to question who this mysterious coach is? Look across the league, most the guys are first timers or guys who've been fired from more jobs than Lindsay Lohan. Even all of the hall of famers are questionable, Doc has a public feud with Rondo, Larry Brown is so disliked by player and GM alike that he won't even get a DLeague team in the pros, Phil Jackson is retired but has a whole book on Kobe, Sloan is available......after a player got him fired. Coaching isn't some quick fix because even the greats struggle getting to certain players.

I dunno, guys like Sloan and Jackson probably have no interest in coming to Atlanta, but damn if I wouldn't welcome them with open arms if they did. Almost everyone gets fired in pro sports. That doesn't mean almost everyone is damaged goods. That's just the way things go sometimes. Even Babe Ruth got traded. Having said that, the way to go in an ideal situation is to have the vision to find that young up-and-comer that you can build around. An ATL version of Spoelstra. Sort of. Problem is that's WAY easier said than done.

[DrReality]

Doesn't listen to his peers either. First game he and Williams got into it. He's hard headed

[AHF]

But you say this is what Mike Woodson tried to do with Josh, and that it led to him complaining behind the scenes and getting Woodson fired. I was so busy with grad school during those years I couldn't really keep up with the inner workings, so I guess I'll have to take your word on that one. I've never heard that and in fact find it hard to believe. Even the idea that Woodson would get Josh to agree to change his playing style is hard for me to believe based on what I saw during the rest of his tenure. When Woodson got fired it was obvious to any casual Hawks observer that it was necessary and inevitable, just from how little respect he got or control he had. The idea that he get Josh to listen even for part of a season seems doubtful.

Josh's last season under Woody, Josh stopped shooting 3's altogether and increased the number of long 2pt shots. This is the success that is being alluded to. It wasn't a matter of getting Josh to play to his strengths, it was a small step in stopping some of the bad shots. Of course, Josh shots a higher efg% and ts% on those 3's than he did on the long 2's but the overall decrease in volume still made it a step in the right direction (with plenty of room to go).

[Guest Walter]

The biggest thing that Harbaugh gave Alex Smith was assurance and confidence.

The assurance that Alex Smith got was SF trying to sign Peyton this offseason. I hate it for JS. He needed stronger, better coaches to develop as a stright out of HS player. He never got such coaches and now the Hawks can't buy themselves anymore time (assuming JS cold even listen at this stage in his career). W