Teague Haters...what do you do with Teague if he....

[AHF]

My problem with 20/10 is I've not seen anything linking its predictive value and looking at double-doubles with are similarly a gold standard cited over and over by basketball analysts and Squawkers alike I see a lot of noise in that number. I have given Dolfan all my energy on the Duke numbers so someone else will have to run numbers on 20/10 to see if they are more meaningful even on an ad hoc basis than the double-double numbers appear.

[Admin]

My problem with 20/10 is I've not seen anything linking its predictive value and looking at double-doubles with are similarly a gold standard cited over and over by basketball analysts and Squawkers alike I see a lot of noise in that number. I have given Dolfan all my energy on the Duke numbers so someone else will have to run numbers on 20/10 to see if they are more meaningful even on an ad hoc basis than the double-double numbers appear.

I don't know how to say that this would be predictive, but take a look at the list of guards who in the past 10 years have had 20+ points & 10+ assists in the same game by the age of 24. I think there are maybe 4 guys there in the top 20 in that list who haven't been All-Stars and each of them that haven't could very well get there. Now, considering that Teague has only started for 2 years, I'd say his accomplishments in this regard are pretty darn impressive.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=career&year_min=2003&year_max=2013&age_min=18&age_max=24&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_eds=Y&round_is_edf=Y&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wds=Y&round_is_wdf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=ast&c2comp=gt&c2val=10&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts#stats::none

Rk Player Pos From To Count1 Chris Paul G 2006 2010 1002 Deron Williams G 2006 2009 583 Russell Westbrook G 2009 2013 404 Derrick Rose G 2009 2012 285 Dwyane Wade G 2005 2007 276 Gilbert Arenas G 2003 2007 207 Stephen Curry G 2010 2013 208 Baron Davis G 2003 2004 189 Tony Parker G 2003 2007 1410 John Wall G 2011 2013 1411 Jeff Teague G 2010 2013 1312 Rajon Rondo G 2009 2011 1113 Jrue Holiday G 2011 2013 1014 Brandon Roy G 2007 2009 1015 Raymond Felton G 2006 2008 916 Kobe Bryant G 2003 2003 817 Tyreke Evans G 2010 2012 818 T.J. Ford G 2006 2007 819 Brandon Jennings G 2011 2013 820 Joe Johnson G 2004 2006 8Rk Player Pos From To Count21 Ramon Sessions G 2008 2011 822 Ricky Davis G 2003 2003 723 Kirk Hinrich G 2004 2006 724 Ty Lawson G 2011 2012 625 Kyle Lowry G 2010 2011 626 Rodney Stuckey G 2009 2011 627 D.J. Augustin G 2009 2012 528 Darren Collison G 2010 2011 529 James Harden G 2013 2013 530 Jeremy Lin G 2012 2013 531 Mo Williams G 2005 2007 532 Monta Ellis G 2010 2010 433 Kyrie Irving G 2013 2013 434 Damian Lillard G 2013 2013 435 Jamal Crawford G 2003 2004 336 Jordan Crawford G 2011 2013 337 Jarrett Jack G 2007 2008 338 Ricky Rubio G 2013 2013 339 Kemba Walker G 2012 2013 340 Aaron Brooks G 2009 2010 2Rk Player Pos From To Count41 Mike Conley G 2011 2012 242 Jordan Farmar G 2011 2011 243 Brandon Knight G 2012 2013 244 Luke Ridnour G 2006 2006 245 Isaiah Thomas G 2012 2012 246 Delonte West G 2007 2007 247 Eric Bledsoe G 2013 2013 148 Keyon Dooling G 2004 2004 149 Eric Gordon G 2011 2011 150 Raul Lopez G 2005 2005 151 O.J. Mayo G 2009 2009 152 Patrick Mills G 2012 2012 153 Ronald Murray G 2004 2004 154 Nate Robinson G 2009 2009 155 Sergio Rodriguez G 2007 2007 156 Sebastian Telfair G 2008 2008 157 Dajuan Wagner G 2003 2003 158 C.J. Watson G 2009 2009 159 Jay Williams G 2003 2003 1

[AHF]

That is much more persuasive. Looking back historically to 1990, you definitely see some outliers both directions (like Pooh Richardson and Sherman Douglas ahead of Teague while Rajon Rondo, Ty Lawson, Andre Miller, Smitty, James Harden and others trail him by often quite significant margins) but it makes me more optimistic to see than the double-double numbers.

[Admin]

That is much more persuasive. Looking back historically to 1990, you definitely see some outliers both directions (like Pooh Richardson and Sherman Douglas ahead of Teague while Rajon Rondo, Ty Lawson, Andre Miller, Smitty, James Harden and others trail him by often quite significant margins) but it makes me more optimistic to see than the double-double numbers.

I agree there are outliers and Teague may very well never reach that top tier of PG's but I firmly believe if he becomes consistent and gets a little better defensively that he'll firmly be in the 2nd tier.

And just to be clear I've never made a claim that double-double's are a rare feet or golden standard. But 20 and 10 games for PG's are not common and are very impressive.

Coming into the 2012-2013 season Teague only had 3 such games and the he had 10 this past season. If he continues to have that many games at that level year in and year out, without the high number of disappointing games in between, then I fully expect we'll be talking about Teague as an All-Star PG.

[Atlantaholic]

Teague + Schröder is looking like the most talent we've had at the position, maybe ever. Say what you will about Ferry's long term plan, but drafting Dennis and keeping Teague at a good price are two slam dunk moves. I think the team this year will surprise a lot of people. Outside of the Heat, we have a chance to be as good as anyone in the eastern conference. I think this season will show that just how much Josh had become a detriment last season, both with his incredibly poor decision making on offense and his attitude during games. Millsap will be an upgrade, and we will be getting Lou Williams back, plus the Rooks chipping in.

Expect Horford's and Teague's numbers both to improve as they become the focal point of the offense. People seem to forget, but Horford and Teague were developing some great chemistry last year, and when they were both on their games and playing together the team looked AWESOME. Getting rid of Josh and hiriing a better coach should only help to continue to improve this chemistry IMO. If Ferry signs a couple of more decent players, we will also be looking at one very deep team. Not too bad.

[CrazyEye]

Drops between 18-20 points, 6-8 assist, on similar FG% of this past year?Do we still trade him once Dennis is ready to start?ORIs Teague respected and now our future?

isn't it possible that teague plays the 2 again like he did in college, if Schröder is ready to start? Imho he is the best hawk guard right now, with a great contract. I wouldn't want to give him away, but maybe give him more minutes at the 2 if Dennis works out since i am not a fan of the current 2 guards.

[Gray Mule]

Personally, I believe that this argument about Jeff Teague and his natural talent / abilityis like having your favorite coon dog treed. You get excited! You arrive at the tree, onlyto discover that he's barking up the wrong tree.Instead of thinking stats, and they are wonderful, think of the chances for the Hawk teamto win. Does JT give the Atlanta Hawks a good to great chance to win? Does the thingsthat he does on the floor make the Hawks better or worse?Somewhere here on Hawksquawk there is a video of Dennis the Menace where he hadnumerous assists but he didn't have any because his team mates missed all those shots.Likewise, last season JT had a lot of assists that weren't because of missed shots andremember, he was playing with Mr. Everything, who sometimes took control of the balland tried to do everything himself. He's in Detroit now, so that's off the table.A basketball team is like a giant picture puzzle. When all pieces fit together, then youget a clear picture. JT is one of our pieces. How he fits with all the other Hawks willdeterming how good or bad he is. Who knows, without Josh, he may fall flat on his face.Then again, he may shine under the instructions and use of his new head coach andstaff.Is he the perfect PG? No, not close. Is there any possibility that he will improve? Or,has he gone as far as he can go, learned all he is capable of learning and physically onhis way down hill because of his advanced age? You decide.Meanwhile, the Hawks still have a team to build before the tip off of the regular season.We're getting closer and closer to having a full roster. Another piece or two and we canbegin to see the full picture emerge. Our GM obtains the pieces and Bud and his staffput them all together.GO HAWKS!!

Edited July 27, 2013 by Gray Mule

[IllestPamfilis]

Teague ain't puttin up no 20ppg. Y'all crazy as a mug

[JTB]

Any stat can be overrated if misused. Clearly what Dolfan is trying to say is Jeff has potential due to his amount of 20/10 games and for him to improve on it. Sothron doesn't agree with that and uses other variables to say why he thinks Jeff is average. I agree with Sothron and I see Dolfan point. My problem with Jeff is simple. I stated it numerous times. If Jeff does give you say 20/7 would it be the harm of our team or betterment of the team.

Well let me take it a bit further and add my 2 cents.

I say teague is going to avg. the 18/8 or 20/7 shooting either a 44 or 45 FG% BUT even doing that I say we are still going to win around the same amount of games as last year and we are still going to lose in the 1st or 2nd round.

My thing is this:

I KNOW teague can produce good numbers

I KNOW he can be consistent through out the regular season doing it

but I also KNOW that even if teague does put up these great numbers his name as far as stardom will remain the same

and MOST IMPORTANTLY out of all this I KNOW that teague can put up 18/8 or 20/7 and REMAIN a passive player!!!

I agree that Teague has the potential just like Dolfan and I agree that his stats can look remarkable but the scary part about Teague is that he doest have that "killer dog" in him that we are seeing in this rookie Dennis!

What I saying to you is that Teague will be amazing this year but because he lacks aggressiveness and that killer dog instinct in him. Putting up good numbers isnt what I want to see out of him because he can easily prove that he can put up good numbers! Its a piece of cake to do that!....I want to see teague DESTROY teams I want to see him run up the score, TAKE OVER when hes feeling hot, shows emotion on both ends of the floor, pound his chest, show everyone he's a beast, make himself known!

See the thing about the argument with Teague vs Dennis is that those who hate Teague doesnt have good reasons to say they hate Teague especially when hes capable of 17/8 or 18/8 or 20/7. If you watch Teague you know he can do that no doubt and it shouldnt be a surprise to you. But what I just gave you above is what a realist would say that turns himself away from teague!

Lets stop looking at stats for a second cause teague is already capable very capable of putting up some mind blowing stats! That argument isnt an argument! What we should be arguing about is this.........

IS TEAGUE GOING TO SHOW THAT FAMILIAR KOBE BRYANT QOUTE "THAT DOG" IN HIM ON THE COURT THIS SEASON?

I gotta be honest that rookie we drafted...Mr. Dennis...he has way more of a "killer dog" instinct than the 4 year NBA player Teague. Now that doesnt maean he can put up Teague capable stats this year but believe me he will be able to in shorter time than Teague.

[IllestPamfilis]

I gotta be honest that rookie we drafted...Mr. Dennis...he has way more of a "killer dog" instinct than the 4 year NBA player Teague. Now that doesnt maean he can put up Teague capable stats this year but believe me he will be able to in shorter time than Teague.

this