Horf on the trading blocks?

[Diesel]

I must be must be missing something. What center was AVAILABLE (not pie in the sky wish list stuff) to pair with Horford that provided a better tandem even on paper than Horf and Milsap? Was there a center in the draft to pair with him to make it better? Bynum n Horf? Oden n Horf? Kamen n Horf? Daly n Horf? Some Scrub n Horf? Take your pick.As of RIGHT now Asik is NOT available. Gortat is NOT available....they may both be available at the trade deadline.Read somewhere that Houston wants to attach JLin to any Asik trade, should the Hawks be will to take both those contracts.Al wants a Center, his Daddy wants a Center, I want a Center, DF wants a center, the entire Squawk wants a center - guess what? There is just none, nada, zilch RIGHT NOW!!!

With our capspace, what Center wasn't available...aside from Howard.

I could easily see us having prepared a deal for Gortat or Asik.. especially after Asik demanded a trade.

However,

There was also:

Andrew Bynum

Ryan Hollins

Ronnie Turiaf

Greg Stiesma

Greg Oden

Al Jefferson

The Bird Man... Chris Anderson

So let's not act like Centers were just totally unavavailable. When you have capspace, you can get what you want. Even Marcus Camby and Jermaine Oneal were available.

[Diesel]

I must be must be missing something. What center was AVAILABLE (not pie in the sky wish list stuff) to pair with Horford that provided a better tandem even on paper than Horf and Milsap? Was there a center in the draft to pair with him to make it better? Bynum n Horf? Oden n Horf? Kamen n Horf? Daly n Horf? Some Scrub n Horf? Take your pick.As of RIGHT now Asik is NOT available. Gortat is NOT available....they may both be available at the trade deadline.Read somewhere that Houston wants to attach JLin to any Asik trade, should the Hawks be will to take both those contracts.Al wants a Center, his Daddy wants a Center, I want a Center, DF wants a center, the entire Squawk wants a center - guess what? There is just none, nada, zilch RIGHT NOW!!!

Also, you say... DF wants a Center? Are you referring to GM DFerry? He had his shot at several. The thing is that it's not about finding an allstar C to pair with Horf... hell, you won't find that in 20 years and if DFerry is waiting on an allstar C, he should be fired tomorrow for being stupid. However, we're in need of a suitable C at a good price who can allow Horf to play a position he's more comfortable playing. Plus if DF wants a Center, no way he tells Horf, "we're looking to be more of an uptempo team"?

[Gray Mule]

Relax people. We already have our new starting center, We drafted him and

left him over seas to mature another year. He will be ripe and ready for next

season.

[Guest]

With our capspace, what Center wasn't available...aside from Howard. I could easily see us having prepared a deal for Gortat or Asik.. especially after Asik demanded a trade. However, There was also: Andrew BynumRyan HollinsRonnie TuriafGreg StiesmaGreg OdenAl JeffersonThe Bird Man... Chris Anderson So let's not act like Centers were just totally unavavailable. When you have capspace, you can get what you want. Even Marcus Camby and Jermaine Oneal were available.

Asik may have demanded a trade but as of RIGHT NOW Houston IS NOT willing to trade him same thing with Gortat and the Suns. I'm not sure how many times this needs to be said.Ferry can put together any package he wants but if the other team is unwilling what's his alternative?Bynum, Oden, Camby - All injured and will not be seeing the court to start the season so I'm not sure how that would help Al RIGHT NOW!O'neal might also be injured (not sure) and he is no longer starter material.Hollins, Turiaf, Steisma - not starter material, all backups. Al Jefferson - too much money for too many years Anderson - wanted to stay with HeatI guessed you really missed DF's preseason interview about getting the RIGHT center and not just because a guy has C next to his name.If you are getting a center to play next to Al you at least need a STARTING quality center (I'm not talking All-star but not a backup player either) and you also need a player who will actually get and stay on the floor for the majority of games next to Al.Also: Regarding trading, who were we going to trade for Asik and Gortat? We only had Al, an injured Lou and Jenkins under contract and we had our draft picks. Edited October 22, 2013 by JayBirdHawk

[macdaddy]

Relax people. We already have our new starting center, We drafted him and

left him over seas to mature another year. He will be ripe and ready for next

season.

Well that's a good point. Of course, i'm always wary of the overseas draftees that don't come over immediately. They sometimes have a way of never making it. Luckily bebe is young. Hope we get him next year.

[ATLSmith]

Bebe is probably two years away from maturing into a quality starting center. I think/hope he will be here next year in a backup role.

[HawkItus]

18. Atlanta Will Be Involved in at Least One Huge Trade Rumor

This roster is built to trade. Every single player is movable. Danny Ferry likes making trades, and he has shown already — via the Joe Johnson deal and his pursuits of Howard and Paul — that he has no interest in endless Hawksian above-averageness. Paul Millsap, on a paltry two-year deal, will instantly become one of the league's most tradable players on December 15, when most free agents who signed over the summer become trade-eligible again.

Sources all over the league say Ferry has so far rebuffed, and rather emphatically, any inquiries into Al Horford's availability. Good on Ferry. But the Hawks will stick their beaks into something big at some point.

GRANTLAND.com

[Sothron]

Well that's a good point. Of course, i'm always wary of the overseas draftees that don't come over immediately. They sometimes have a way of never making it. Luckily bebe is young. Hope we get him next year.

He's not that young actually. He'll be 22 if he comes over next year. That's a college senior so he's not that young when you are talking guys usually three years younger than him.

[Diesel]

I guessed you really missed DF's preseason interview about getting the RIGHT center and not just because a guy has C next to his name.If you are getting a center to play next to Al you at least need a STARTING quality center (I'm not talking All-star but not a backup player either) and you also need a player who will actually get and stay on the floor for the majority of games next to Al.Also: Regarding trading, who were we going to trade for Asik and Gortat? We only had Al, an injured Lou and Jenkins under contract and we had our draft picks.

No I didn't miss DFerry's getting the right Center BS. That's what you say when you don't get a C. Face the facts, teams find guys who you say are not starter material every year and those guys become good players. Like Birdman. Last year, nobody cared about him... look at him now. Like Robin Lopez... a couple of years ago, you couldn't pay people to take him. Even Asik and Gortat, they rose up from being draft picks to being usable players. Have I mentioned Vulancuinas or Vucevic?? Everybody seems to be finding good Centers while we're still looking for the right Center. It's funny... the Spurs found a Splitter and a Baynes when they needed C help... and we can't find anybody. Not even Twin? Pathetic.

[macdaddy]

No I didn't miss DFerry's getting the right Center BS. That's what you say when you don't get a C. Face the facts, teams find guys who you say are not starter material every year and those guys become good players. Like Birdman. Last year, nobody cared about him... look at him now. Like Robin Lopez... a couple of years ago, you couldn't pay people to take him. Even Asik and Gortat, they rose up from being draft picks to being usable players. Have I mentioned Vulancuinas or Vucevic?? Everybody seems to be finding good Centers while we're still looking for the right Center. It's funny... the Spurs found a Splitter and a Baynes when they needed C help... and we can't find anybody. Not even Twin? Pathetic.

I don't know about all those guys but you are talking about guys that aren't starting or logging big minutes. Its not like we've never had centers of that calibre here. Hell we've had Zaza and Twin here. We've got brand and Antić to play minutes at center but that's not what Al is talking about. He's complaining that we can't put him permanently in the PF position by having a 35 minute plus center. As JayBird said that guy hasn't been there to be had.

[Guest Zone]

What Center is going to realistically make the Hawks a top five team in the east? I see people throwing Asik and Gortat out there and neither of those dudes are going to vastly improve this team. With the few assets this team has, it would be stupid for the Hawks to pursue a Center who is not going to help this team make the jump.

And let's be honest, the only reason Ferry would trade Horford is if he doesn't like this team and decides to blow it up midway through the season. In fact, this team is built in a way that blowing it up would be very easy.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Zone

[Diesel]

What Center is going to realistically make the Hawks a top five team in the east? I see people throwing Asik and Gortat out there and neither of those dudes are going to vastly improve this team. With the few assets this team has, it would be stupid for the Hawks to pursue a Center who is not going to help this team make the jump.

And let's be honest, the only reason Ferry would trade Horford is if he doesn't like this team and decides to blow it up midway through the season. In fact, this team is built in a way that blowing it up would be very easy.

Well, we disagree here. Asik is a rebounding, defensive Center. He would immediately help us because our main problem is rebounding. If you look at what we have, you would notice that all these shooters needs:

1. A possession edge.

2. An inside presence.

Unfortunately, for years, we have been stagnated by the thought that we need an allstar this and an allstar that that we failed to realize that sometimes better chemistry is better than an allstar this and that.

[Diesel]

I don't know about all those guys but you are talking about guys that aren't starting or logging big minutes. Its not like we've never had centers of that calibre here. Hell we've had Zaza and Twin here. We've got brand and Antić to play minutes at center but that's not what Al is talking about. He's complaining that we can't put him permanently in the PF position by having a 35 minute plus center. As JayBird said that guy hasn't been there to be had.

That guy that we speak of could have been a rotation of guys. The thing is that we should have looked into an investment that would have made Horf our PF. What would have been wrong with a rotation of Brand, Antić, and Steisma at C? Or Hollins, Brand, Lopez?

Now, we don't swing... not for the fences, not for the bunt. So since some of you are fence swingers, I heard somebody say that Al Jefferson costed too much?? Jefferson signed a 3 yr 41 Million dollar deal. That's less than 14 Million per for a guy who is a bonafide low post scorer who could get you 20/10. Horf would have loved Jefferson because they have different games. Moreover, our shooters would have loved somebody who could work in the low post. Instead, we opted for a guy who plays in the midrange just like Horf and we still have no low post play.

[macdaddy]

That guy that we speak of could have been a rotation of guys. The thing is that we should have looked into an investment that would have made Horf our PF. What would have been wrong with a rotation of Brand, Antić, and Steisma at C? Or Hollins, Brand, Lopez?

Now, we don't swing... not for the fences, not for the bunt. So since some of you are fence swingers, I heard somebody say that Al Jefferson costed too much?? Jefferson signed a 3 yr 41 Million dollar deal. That's less than 14 Million per for a guy who is a bonafide low post scorer who could get you 20/10. Horf would have loved Jefferson because they have different games. Moreover, our shooters would have loved somebody who could work in the low post. Instead, we opted for a guy who plays in the midrange just like Horf and we still have no low post play.

Are Steisma and Robin Lopez better than Zaza? Is that swinging for the fences? Why wasn't Zaza starting for us the last 4 years? Because we put our best lineup on the floor when it matters. You can say we have a Brand, Antić, Steisma rotation but that isn't going to keep Horford out of the center spot completely because its a better lineup with him there.

I'd much rather go into the season with a Milsap / Horford front court than a Horford / Steisma or worse a Horford / RLopez.

Charlotte will regret that deal for Jefferson. If Jefferson is one of those true 5s that Horford has so much trouble with then maybe a review is in order. It only takes 15 seconds to see we signed the right jazz forward.

[GameTime]

Utah fans don't think he is a true 5 at all. They actual think he is a 4.

[Guest]

Brand, Antić and Ayón? Isn't this what we have?RLopez, Steisma Hollins? Any better?

[macdaddy]

Brand, Antić and Ayón? Isn't this what we have?RLopez, Steisma Hollins? Any better?

Great point. Ferry drafted a center and jumped on Ayón off waivers. The idea that we aren't looking for centers is bunk.

[tbhawksfan]

It could be that Ferry has positioned us for a major rebuild? Look at the roster. Horf, Millsap, Korver, Lou Will, Brand and JT are all moveable players that could put us in a position to do the quickest rebuild ever. Count the possible picks. We wondered why Ferry held out on JT, only to sign him. Maybe he just wanted to keep the trade asset.What would be left? A bunch of oyung guys with some talent and potential; JJ, Scott, Schro, Carroll, Cunningham with Nog and Moose in line. The rest look like classic tank players; Ayón, Antić, Ivey, Mack...I don't think Ferry will go this route, Horf is too good to trade and 2 or 3 years of waiting for the kids to mature would be tough, but it could be one classic rebuild.Horf is worth a top 3 lotMillsap a mid lotJT a late lotKorver, Brand and Lou should bring in another late first or two, plus our tanking picks....it would be total chaos

[Diesel]

Are Steisma and Robin Lopez better than Zaza? Is that swinging for the fences? Why wasn't Zaza starting for us the last 4 years? Because we put our best lineup on the floor when it matters. You can say we have a Brand, Antić, Steisma rotation but that isn't going to keep Horford out of the center spot completely because its a better lineup with him there.

I'd much rather go into the season with a Milsap / Horford front court than a Horford / Steisma or worse a Horford / RLopez.

Charlotte will regret that deal for Jefferson. If Jefferson is one of those true 5s that Horford has so much trouble with then maybe a review is in order. It only takes 15 seconds to see we signed the right jazz forward.

Seriously... Horf vs. Jefferson... you show one game of highlights?

How about this...

Brand, Antić and Ayón? Isn't this what we have?

RLopez, Steisma Hollins? Any better?

We have nobody who plays underneath or plays defense except old man Brand..

Edited October 22, 2013 by Diesel

[TheFuzz]

Seriously... Horf vs. Jefferson... you show one game of highlights?

How about this...

We have nobody who plays underneath or plays defense except old man Brand..

Ignoring that head to head stats aren't worth anything and that this doesn't reflect defense or how a player plays within a team at all, in those head to head stats Horford has beaten Jefferson at (literally) everything except for raw PPG.

You want Robin Lopez? Millsap is better.

You want Jefferson? Millsap is better, particularly with the 2-year deal.

You want players like friggin' STEAMER?! We've got Brand and Ayón to help out at C.

Jefferson got signed by CHARLOTTE. THE BOBCATS. Dallas didn't sign him, we didn't sign him, Utah didn't resign him, Milwaukee didn't sign him, San Antonio didn't sign him. Jefferson is not a good player, people. He's not bad, but he just screams mediocrity and he has even less trade value than Millsap. He gets absolutely MURDERED on the pick and roll while pulling a Joe Johnson and blackholing your team into a 1st round exit. He slows your pace down on offense while not scoring particularly efficiently. He has NEVER been on a team that has won ANYTHING.

And yes, that Utah team last year had some talent. On paper, it was just as good (if not better) than the team we had last year.

Edited October 22, 2013 by TheFuzz