What is the plan?

[Guest]

And Korver.

[Guest]

Sum of parts and contracts greater than the 1.I'm done with this though - been yapping about this since the 1st year Joe left.It's all hindsight and what if's and maybes.I like this team with this coach at this time. I'm enjoying this brand of basketball. It's not a finished product by any means but I am optimistic for the future.

[nathan2331]

 I'm saying I don't see anything gained from trading Joe YET.  There's certainly not enough gained from trading Joe to say that we are better because we traded him.  That's pure BS when you traded Joe for all ending deals and draft picks.  Johan Petro is not making us better than Joe did.Secondly, poor speculation on Bud.  Bud came here because his good friend told him that we can run the team the way that you like and we can use metrics to get the players you need to be successful.  If we had Joe and Ferry made the same pitch, Bud would have still stumbled his ass over here.Thirdly.  Joe is declining.  In fact, everybody playing in iso offense is declining.  However, what I said is that we haven't seen Joe in Bud's system playing next to Millsap and Korver. Fourth... it's not what I see in Joe.  It's what I don't see in this argument.  We are not better because we traded Joe.  First off we're not better, but we are more disciplined.  We are what we are for a variety of reasons but if we had Lost Marvin and Smoove a lot sooner, we would be great.  In fact, if we had traded Marvin and resigned Crawford, we would have been great.The Hawks squawk fanbase has a problem because they believe that cap flexibility and capspace does something on the court.   IT does nothing.  The fact is you have to follow the money and when you do so, you'll find Brand, Pero, and Lou...

The point is that I can tell you with confidence that we go nowhere if Joe stays on this team. Bud wasn't in a hurry to be a head coach, he came because we were in a desirable situation i.e. not handicapped by an albatross of a contract and blessed with cap flexibility. And Lou, Brand and Pero are better than what Joe offers at half the cost.I don't know if I can keep doing this. If that trade does nothing else for us I can at least watch the Hawks without watching the leagues most overpaid player nightly.

[Diesel]

Sum of parts and contracts greater than the 1.I'm done with this though - been yapping about this since the 1st year Joe left.It's all hindsight and what if's and maybes.I like this team with this coach at this time. I'm enjoying this brand of basketball.It's not a finished product by any means but I am optimistic for the future.

One does not = the other.

You are happy with NOW (coaching)... but that doesn't mean that what we had (players) under different coach NOW is less than players we have now. You keep making that same argument and it fails.

I like after years of eating broiled catfish that was good, somebody giving you a fried Flounder and you saying that Flounder is better than catfish... and you never have tasted the catfish fried?

[nathan2331]

 One does not = the other. You are happy with NOW (coaching)... but that doesn't mean that what we had (players) under different coach NOW  is less than players we have now.  You keep making that same argument and it fails. I like after years of eating broiled catfish that was good, somebody giving you a fried Flounder and you saying that Flounder is better than catfish... and you never have tasted the catfish fried?

You also assume Bud comes here if Joe was still around which probably wouldn't happen.

[Sothron]

I was upset that we got so little value back in Joe and got nothing from Chuck McChuckerson but then I realized something good ol' Jason Walker told me years and I mean years ago: if you think a GM didn't explore every trade possibility to help his team then you need to stop and rethink.

Because there's no doubt in my mind Ferry didn't try peddling Joe, Chuck, Marvin and didn't get anything back that would help us long term.

[Diesel]

I was upset that we got so little value back in Joe and got nothing from Chuck McChuckerson but then I realized something good ol' Jason Walker told me years and I mean years ago: if you think a GM didn't explore every trade possibility to help his team then you need to stop and rethink.

Because there's no doubt in my mind Ferry didn't try peddling Joe, Chuck, Marvin and didn't get anything back that would help us long term.

Maybe that was from years ago. Billy King said that he initiated the talks for Joe. Not Ferry. Moreover, here's my one main problem with the Ferry/Bud Collaboration...

It seems very orchestrated. not in a good way where you are building a winning team. But in a poor way in that Ferry and Bud are seeking to prove that their "system" is better. I hate system guys. System guys are more interested in the proof than they are in winning. To me, that means that Ferry would pass up all kind of talent because the talent doesn't fit in his system. In essence, he's the kind of guy that will throw away a shot at a championship in order to preserve his system. It's just as ego driven as Carmelo Anthony... Would rather lose pretty than win ugly.

So before it's all over, I suspect that unlike those GMs of the past, Ferry is more like BK than many want to believe. BK was also system driven. His system was long and athletic. Which is why we picked Marvin over CP3, D-Will, and Felton and BK tried to suggest that putting Joe at PG would be the answer. System guy at work.