The NBA ......where bad refereeing happens!

[Wurider05]

I felt bad after D. Carroll got that phantom call against the heat. However, this maybe the worst call ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdgssaOlfA

The worst part is that the ref was right there. There is something going on in the nba with these refs.

[capstone21]

The NBA ... Where the Heat get all the calls

[Gray Mule]

Had this been the NFL, the coach could have thrown the challenge flag.

Too bad the NBA doesn't have that option. It would have been mighty

hard for the refs to deny this one (on further review)

Oh well. It WAS that Heat team.

[bird_dirt]

Zbo was just talking about having to play 5 vs 8. I'm not expecting anything to actually happen, but it sure would be nice if Silver were to prove he's not a puppet and does something about the officiating.

[DrReality]

Zbo was just talking about having to play 5 vs 8. I'm not expecting anything to actually happen, but it sure would be nice if Silver were to prove he's not a puppet and does something about the officiating.

I wish. More likely a meteor will hit

[Bahamut]

Had this been the NFL, the coach could have thrown the challenge flag.

Too bad the NBA doesn't have that option. It would have been mighty

hard for the refs to deny this one (on further review)

Oh well. It WAS that Heat team.

I read that MLB is even looking into adding challenge flags. Not that it matters, since the Braves are dead to me.

[ATLSmith]

If the NBA does implement instant replay then they'll need to have a separate official sitting in a booth to review the play. Right now, the process of having an official walk over to the table, turn the monitor around, put the headset on, and then review the play 5 or 6 times takes way to long.

For the record, cricket uses a booth official for reviewing replays. It is fast and effective.

[macdaddy]

The NBA has yet to take getting things right seriously. There are still a bunch of unwritten rules about not fouling out stars, not making calls at end of games etc. and it all comes down from the top. These refs aren't making these decisions on their own. They feel the pressure to not cross the leagues vision of good entertainment. Its stupid.

[Guest]

I wish the NBA did not collectively bargain with their referees.

[Vol4ever]

Ive been a fan since 1972 and nothing has changed. Top teams will get the calls, period, end of discussion.

[AHF]

I wish the NBA did not collectively bargain with their referees.

The league doesn't have a choice about that.

[Guest]

The league doesn't have a choice about that.

How does a referee in the NBA get certified? And why do they need to be certified?

I am not up on all the legal issues that stem from the National Labor Relations Act. I am going to go out on a limb and say that you probably are.

But the NBA referees appear to be acting more like an old boys club rather than a group of individuals concerned for the fairness and integrity of the NBA. How else can you say that 74-year old d*ck Bavetta is physically capable of refereeing at the highest level of professional basketball? Maaaybe him being a referee has more to do with refereeing Wall Street Broker's leagues (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2004-02-19-bavetta_x.htm) where he was also a broker. I don't know, just a hunch.

And the funny thing to me about this thread is that from the original video, I don't think it was a horrible no-call. Whenever I go back and look at video replays, I first give benefit of the doubt to the original call. After watching the video a few times, if I see clear cut evidence that the original call could not have been right then I will berate a ref. I had to super slow-mo this play down to see if Marion got the ball or the arm. If I have to get into that much detail, then I won't claim the call was awful. Kevin Love will flail his arms like that if he loses control of the ball, has Marion knock the ball out of his hands, or he is fouled. I'm not sure why the NBA felt they should comment on that play.

[AHF]

How does a referee in the NBA get certified? And why do they need to be certified?

I am not up on all the legal issues that stem from the National Labor Relations Act. I am going to go out on a limb and say that you probably are.

But the NBA referees appear to be acting more like an old boys club rather than a group of individuals concerned for the fairness and integrity of the NBA. How else can you say that 74-year old d*ck Bavetta is physically capable of refereeing at the highest level of professional basketball? Maaaybe him being a referee has more to do with refereeing Wall Street Broker's leagues (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2004-02-19-bavetta_x.htm) where he was also a broker. I don't know, just a hunch.

And the funny thing to me about this thread is that from the original video, I don't think it was a horrible no-call. Whenever I go back and look at video replays, I first give benefit of the doubt to the original call. After watching the video a few times, if I see clear cut evidence that the original call could not have been right then I will berate a ref. I had to super slow-mo this play down to see if Marion got the ball or the arm. If I have to get into that much detail, then I won't claim the call was awful. Kevin Love will flail his arms like that if he loses control of the ball, has Marion knock the ball out of his hands, or he is fouled. I'm not sure why the NBA felt they should comment on that play.

I have my issues with the refs for sure, but I am simply pointing out that once the referees organize the league is legally obligated to collectively bargain with them. They aren't locked into terms that protect bad refs (although protecting bad workers is a common impact of the need to collectively bargain along with the protection of good workers from arbitrary employer action) but they can't refuse to bargain with the refs' union.

[Guest]

I have my issues with the refs for sure, but I am simply pointing out that once the referees organize the league is legally obligated to collectively bargain with them. They aren't locked into terms that protect bad refs (although protecting bad workers is a common impact of the need to collectively bargain along with the protection of good workers from arbitrary employer action) but they can't refuse to bargain with the refs' union.

Is this assuming that all referees are organized together? Or irrespective, the NBA cannot hire referees that are not part of the NBRA?

I can see that because the NBA has bargained with the NBRA they have a deal in place to only hire NBRA certified referees. But what precludes the next deal to have the NBA not bargain with them? And just hire Joe Schmoes from the side of the road?

[iDash]

Love the offensive Carroll foul!

[AHF]

Is this assuming that all referees are organized together? Or irrespective, the NBA cannot hire referees that are not part of the NBRA?

I can see that because the NBA has bargained with the NBRA they have a deal in place to only hire NBRA certified referees. But what precludes the next deal to have the NBA not bargain with them? And just hire Joe Schmoes from the side of the road?

If the NLRB certifies a bargaining unit, it is legally obligated to bargain with them now and in the future. Not every referee they hire has to be a member of the union if they don't bargain for a closed shop (which is illegal in some states but not others) but every ref has to have the option to join the union. The practical reality is that enormous pressure is put on the new hires to join by their peers.

[LamarHampton]

Love the offensive Carroll foul!

That was whack. Heads should roll.

[Guest]

If the NLRB certifies a bargaining unit, it is legally obligated to bargain with them now and in the future. Not every referee they hire has to be a member of the union if they don't bargain for a closed shop (which is illegal in some states but not others) but every ref has to have the option to join the union. The practical reality is that enormous pressure is put on the new hires to join by their peers.

Well I am either advocating:

[*]The National Labor Relations Act never existed and denied the right for the NBRA to collectively bargin.

[*]Market forces would allow the NBA to hire referees that are not a part of the NBRA.

Those are not mutually exclusive, but either way my original terse point was not about the finer legal points of labor relations. Still good to know about how the NLRB operates.

[AHF]

Well I am either advocating:

[*]The National Labor Relations Act never existed and denied the right for the NBRA to collectively bargin.

[*]Market forces would allow the NBA to hire referees that are not a part of the NBRA.

Those are not mutually exclusive, but either way my original terse point was not about the finer legal points of labor relations. Still good to know about how the NLRB operates.

Once a Union gets certified, the employer is stuck making the best of it with them until the workers decertify or the employer shuts its doors. While I don't wish the NLRA never existed since it once served a very important roll in worker safety and fairness, I wouldn't be opposed to a more free market situation today by any means since many of the most important things unions once did have been rolled into other legal requirements for employers (OSHA, EEOC, Wage Laws, etc.).

The best recommendation for the NBA is to get up its pay for the referees (particularly the less senior ones) but get very tough language giving the league more control over hiring, training, disciplining and firing refs as the trade-off.