The fall of Teague

[macdaddy]

Lmao! You all worst than the misguided youth in "Dazed and Confused"!! Teague is doing his best to spread the ball to some of the bums we're left with after the injuries of AL, Antić, and now Carroll.. So what do you want him to do when he can no longer play the pick and roll? Now teams are hedging him at the top of the key so he no longer has open lanes.. A couple games ago he had 13 assists but was still ridiculed by posters.. We have a top 10 point guard and you freak cases still complain.. smh. I wonder why people choose to post every now and then because they want to keep their insanity..RK NAME TEAMGPMPGASTAPGTOTOPGAP48MAST/TO1 C. Paul, PG LAC 36 34.4 400 11.1 92 2.6 15.5 4.352 S. Curry, PG GSW 50 37.7 450 9.0 204 4.1 11.5 2.213 T. Lawson, PG DEN 45 35.6 396 8.8 140 3.1 11.9 2.834 J. Wall, PG WAS 52 37.0 443 8.5 181 3.5 11.0 2.455 R. Rubio, PG MIN 53 31.5 441 8.3 143 2.7 12.7 3.086 B. Jennings, PG DET 50 36.2 404 8.1 153 3.1 10.7 2.647 J. Holiday, PG NOR 34 33.6 268 7.9 105 3.1 11.3 2.558 K. Lowry, PG TOR 52 36.3 395 7.6 118 2.3 10.1 3.359 J. Teague, PG ATL 49 32.2 354 7.2 154 3.1 10.8 2.3010 L. James, SF MIA 50 37.4 328 6.6 175 3.5 8.4 1.87Just imagine if AL was still here..

I've been avoiding this thread but the excitement to bash Teague when he's playing with a team of seriously limited offensive players is mind boggling to me. No doubt he is struggling but the team is struggling. It's not like Mack and Dennis are coming in and righting the ship. And as you said his good games are totally ignored. It's fantasy to believe that right now Mack and Dennis are anywhere near the calibre of PG as Teague despite his struggles.

[willthepureshooter]

How did pick stats? Lol! It's on Espn.com and NBA.com.. Go look yourself before you take a side. FYI, he has a better fg% than some of the players ranked hire than him..Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[AHF]

It's fantasy to believe that right now Mack and Dennis are anywhere near the calibre of PG as Teague despite his struggles.

Let's see how they are playing "right now" and whether anyone separates themselves from the pack:

#1

2014: 14.8 pp36, .515 TS%, 5.9 ap36, 2.7 top36, 3.3 rp36, 1.6 sp36

#2

2014: 15.9 pp36, .471 TS%, 6.6 ap36, 3.4 top36, 2.5 rp36, 1.35 sp36

#3

2014: 11.4 pp36, .483 TS%, 4.0 ap36, 2.9 top36, 3.7 rp36, 1.1 sp36

Player #1 looks like the best line to me.

[macdaddy]

Let's see how they are playing "right now" and whether anyone separates themselves from the pack:

#1

2014: 14.8 pp36, .515 TS%, 5.9 ap36, 2.7 top36, 3.3 rp36, 1.6 sp36

#2

2014: 15.9 pp36, .471 TS%, 6.6 ap36, 3.4 top36, 2.5 rp36, 1.35 sp36

#3

2014: 11.4 pp36, .483 TS%, 4.0 ap36, 2.9 top36, 3.7 rp36, 1.1 sp36

Player #1 looks like the best line to me.

Really? The old pp36? Nothing like getting credit for minutes you didn't play.

[Sothron]

How did pick stats? Lol! It's on Espn.com and NBA.com.. Go look yourself before you take a side. FYI, he has a better fg% than some of the players ranked hire than him..Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

So what? Again that is cherry pick stats. Does Jeff rank in the top ten in PGs in TS? EFG? 3 point shooting? drawing fouls? win share? per? defensive WS? what's his plus minus? etc etc.

[Sothron]

Really? The old pp36? Nothing like getting credit for minutes you didn't play.

What other way can you compare three players when they don't all get the same minutes per game? or for that matter how one gets to play with starters and the other two have to play with backups?

[cam1218]

Not having Horford has really hurt Teague. He doesn't have as much space to drive into the lane with guys like Ayón clogging it up. He's not getting fouls called when he does drive and his floater isn't falling. It also isn't helping him that he can't hit an outside shot to save his life. He is a one trick pony right now.

He's been awful to watch these past couple of weeks (maybe even longer). I know he is better than this but I don't know how much more I can take.

I've always said my biggest issue with him is how he carries himself on the court. He seems to have a lot of Josh Smith in him. I could stand to watch him struggle a little more if it seemed like he was out there hustling, working hard and maintaining a positive attitude. His moping around isn't doing himself or his teammates any favors.

[macdaddy]

You compare them by watching the games. If you want to look at stats that's fine but as you said we can pull stats to build a case all day long. But pull up assist to turnover ratio and ppg and shooting% for January and February and see what you think. You'll see that all 3 are struggling but the backups are struggling as much or more than Teague. Wow! Did they all just suddenly forget how to pass and dribble? Or could it be that they are ALL playing with the backups.

[AHF]

Hawks:

#1

2014: 14.8 pp36, .515 TS%, 5.9 ap36, 2.7 top36, 3.3 rp36, 1.6 sp36

#2

2014: 15.9 pp36, .471 TS%, 6.6 ap36, 3.4 top36, 2.5 rp36, 1.35 sp36

#3

2014: 11.4 pp36, .483 TS%, 4.0 ap36, 2.9 top36, 3.7 rp36, 1.1 sp36

Really? The old pp36? Nothing like getting credit for minutes you didn't play.

Here are the per 36 numbers for the Grizzlies:

2014: Conley 20.0 pp36, .589 TS%, 6.6 ap36, 2.0 top36, 3.2 rp36, 1.6 sp36

2014: Bayless 13.4 pp36, .475 TS%, 6.4 ap36, 1.6 top36, 2.8 rp36, 1.5 sp36

How do these not represent their productivity during their time on the floor?

Why pretend someone is doing a good job scoring if they are averaging 17 ppg on 48 minutes and .470 TS%?

[macdaddy]

Hawks:

#1

2014: 14.8 pp36, .515 TS%, 5.9 ap36, 2.7 top36, 3.3 rp36, 1.6 sp36

#2

2014: 15.9 pp36, .471 TS%, 6.6 ap36, 3.4 top36, 2.5 rp36, 1.35 sp36

#3

2014: 11.4 pp36, .483 TS%, 4.0 ap36, 2.9 top36, 3.7 rp36, 1.1 sp36

Here are the per 36 numbers for the Grizzlies:

2014: Conley 20.0 pp36, .589 TS%, 6.6 ap36, 2.0 top36, 3.2 rp36, 1.6 sp36

2014: Bayless 13.4 pp36, .475 TS%, 6.4 ap36, 1.6 top36, 2.8 rp36, 1.5 sp36

How do these not represent their productivity during their time on the floor?

Why pretend someone is doing a good job scoring if they are averaging 17 ppg on 48 minutes and .470 TS%?

I don't know about the grizzlies but per36 numbers for a guy avg 13 minutes/mostly in garbage time are meaningless. i know you know that.

So give me those guys numbers for jan/feb and lets see. I'm not smart enough to do it but that's the issue here.

Edited February 13, 2014 by macdaddy

[AHF]

You compare them by watching the games. If you want to look at stats that's fine but as you said we can pull stats to build a case all day long. But pull up assist to turnover ratio and ppg and shooting% for January and February and see what you think. You'll see that all 3 are struggling but the backups are struggling as much or more than Teague. Wow! Did they all just suddenly forget how to pass and dribble? Or could it be that they are ALL playing with the backups.

Teague has the worst true shooting % of the bunch and he has a worse assist to turnover ratio than Mack but a better one than Schröder.

I think that isn't great.

[willthepureshooter]

Lol.. If Teague is such a bum why do you guys have to pull "advanced metrics" to prove your point? I mean, if he was really a bum you would be able to see it in his regular stats. So you would think Ricky Rubio's better than Teague huh? Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[AHF]

Lol.. If Teague is such a bum why do you guys have to pull "advanced metrics" to prove your point? I mean, if he was really a bum you would be able to see it in his regular stats. So you would think Ricky Rubio's better than Teague huh?Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Turnovers and shooting %s are considered "advanced metrics" now? Wow.

I guess this lineup probably rates as a dream team to you:

Stephon Marbury

Ben Gordon

Corey Maggette

Antoine Walker

Eddy Curry

I am sure you have read the board and seen all the criticism directed towards Teague from the eye test. When people say he is playing like garbage that is what they mean. When you look at the numbers, it gives more context.

[Sothron]

Lol.. If Teague is such a bum why do you guys have to pull "advanced metrics" to prove your point? I mean, if he was really a bum you would be able to see it in his regular stats. So you would think Ricky Rubio's better than Teague huh?Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

If you think the way Teague has played the last month plus is top ten PG basketball then I don't really need to hear more of your pro Teague arguments. No offense.

[macdaddy]

Teague has the worst true shooting % of the bunch and he has a worse assist to turnover ratio than Mack but a better one than Schröder.

I think that isn't great.

I'll trust you on that. Eyeballing it i saw Mack with about 3 assists and 1.5 turnovers a game in 2014 and DS with about 1.5 assists and 1.5 turnovers a game in 2014. Still to my point:

All three appear to be sucking. So is it that they all are sucking at the same time coincidentally or is it really that the Hawks are short on offensive weapons?

[willthepureshooter]

If you think the way Teague has played the last month plus is top ten PG basketball then I don't really need to hear more of your pro Teague arguments. No offense.

Well it seems to me that the entire team is playing like garbage these past months. But of course people have their agendas. Hey, at least Kyle Korver continued the streak but nevermind his poor play these past couple months. Paul Milsap has jumped off the Allstar break cliff but no one has pointed that out. Scott and Mack are playing horribly lately. Ayón and Lou should be restricted to toilet bowl duty. How about keying in on these guys instead of a player that has someone kept his numbers the same since Horford left. So I don't really need to hear more of your negative Teague arguments. No offense.

[cam1218]

Well it seems to me that the entire team is playing like garbage these past months. But of course people have their agendas. Hey, at least Kyle Korver continued the streak but nevermind his poor play these past couple months. Paul Milsap has jumped off the Allstar break cliff but no one has pointed that out. Scott and Mack are playing horribly lately. Ayón and Lou should be restricted to toilet bowl duty. How about keying in on these guys instead of a player that has someone kept his numbers the same since Horford left. So I don't really need to hear more of your negative Teague arguments. No offense.

The entire team has played like garbage for the last 5 games, not 'these past months'.Just going through your post and the players you call out..Millsap has struggled some recently. He was injured early in the year, maybe he has just hit a wall? Despite his struggles he is an all star.Scott is a role player and he isn't an issue, he has been great for us. Mack has been playing smart ball, he is also a guy that came into camp competing with Ivey for #3 pg.Ayón should be playing after Horf/Sap/Brand/Antić. He's being forced into minutes, so how can you blame him?Lou is awful, no denying that.I'm a Teague fan. I understand that he has lost key players this year. I think he can be a really good PG, but he needs to grow up. He's at a point in his career where he needs to realize that and become more of a leader. He has been awful recently and we are going to keep losing if we don't get anything from him or Lou. Edited February 14, 2014 by cam1218

[Sothron]

Well it seems to me that the entire team is playing like garbage these past months. But of course people have their agendas. Hey, at least Kyle Korver continued the streak but nevermind his poor play these past couple months. Paul Milsap has jumped off the Allstar break cliff but no one has pointed that out. Scott and Mack are playing horribly lately. Ayón and Lou should be restricted to toilet bowl duty. How about keying in on these guys instead of a player that has someone kept his numbers the same since Horford left. So I don't really need to hear more of your negative Teague arguments. No offense.

The whole team has not been playing like garbage for the last month plus actually. Only Teague fits that bill. You are right that the last few games the whole team is competing in a race for "who can suck the most life out of Hawks fans" though...

[AHF]

I'll trust you on that. Eyeballing it i saw Mack with about 3 assists and 1.5 turnovers a game in 2014 and DS with about 1.5 assists and 1.5 turnovers a game in 2014.

You don't have to eyeball the assist to turnover ratio. I gave you the exact assist and turnover rates for 2014 earlier. Just put one over the other and that is the same whether it is raw number, per 36, or any other kind. A/TO is a ratio. Mack is #1, Teague #2, and Schröder #3 (both in matching with the stat lines above and in ranking them for A/TO ratio).

Edited February 14, 2014 by AHF

[BrazilianHawk]

He's playing like crap, yes, but as will have said, I too think it's somewhat unfair all the criticism directed to Teague.

He was playing great and everyone was happy with his production when we had a healthy squad.

I say give him viable pieces to work with. Ayón just can't do much, Millsap gets no respect from the refs, Korver has always a hand on his face. DeMarre is playing great lately, but probably just because other coaches think he's the weakest link of our offensive system (Ayón excluded, obviously). I don't have the numbers, but I would guess Teague assists him in a lot of his points.

Jeff's problem this season is his shooting %s and some idiotic turnovers, but other than that, he was playing ok when given viable teammates. It's hard to score inside when everyone knows the perimeter shooting isn't working the way it should.

Edited February 14, 2014 by BrazilianHawk