True Center you say?....huh

[Guest]

Do you know that Paul Millsap was 4th in rebounding at 10.4 for the regular season at 10.9 (D-12 at 13.7, Noah at 12.8, and Jordan at 12.3)? That is our PF. I'm sure Al would have been in the mix.

Like Buzzard said, having Pero and rebounding at the SF/SG/PG positions was our downfall.

[Buzzard]

Do you know that Paul Millsap was 4th in rebounding at 10.4 for the regular season at 10.9 (D-12 at 13.7, Noah at 12.8, and Jordan at 12.3)? That is our PF. I'm sure Al would have been in the mix.

Like Buzzard said, having Pero and rebounding at the SF/SG/PG positions was our downfall.

If I was not concerned with Stephenson's attitude, he would be my top UFA. 7 boards a game at the SG spot is off the charts.

[Guest]

You see, this is the type of Inertia that I've been talking about. How Long have we tried the Al + PF formula only to find that it fails against teams with real Centers. Josh was a much better rebounding, rim protector than Sapp. Playing next to Al, Josh and Al allowed D12 Dwight Howard to make History against us. What'd he average? Some like +25 ppg average victory margin? It wasn't until we got a true Center/rim protector who could match up with him that we were able to neutralize his team. However, you want to go to war with a C/PF combo that is less athletic than what we had before and HOPE that our team defense will suffice?? There's the problem.

What rim protector? Jason Collins, he was a big body that allowed us to neutralized Orlando because we neutralized their 3 point shooting by having him guard D12 one on one - Dwight still got his.

[macdaddy]

You see, this is the type of Inertia that I've been talking about. How Long have we tried the Al + PF formula only to find that it fails against teams with real Centers. Josh was a much better rebounding, rim protector than Sapp. Playing next to Al, Josh and Al allowed D12 Dwight Howard to make History against us. What'd he average? Some like +25 ppg average victory margin? It wasn't until we got a true Center/rim protector who could match up with him that we were able to neutralize his team. However, you want to go to war with a C/PF combo that is less athletic than what we had before and HOPE that our team defense will suffice?? There's the problem.

I'm not seeing where Josh is a much better rebounder than Sap. In fact what is Josh better at than Sap? Blocks? Dunks? Making the all star team? To say that Sap/Horford won't work because Josh/Horford didn't work is wrong. Sap did better against Indy in the playoffs by himself than Josh/Horf did together last year.

And let's not forget that it wasn't just playing Collins that got us past Dwight. It was having LD instead of Woody. And disasterous trades by the Magic to send out Rashard, Vince Carter, and Gortat mid season.

[Diesel]

I'm not seeing where Josh is a much better rebounder than Sap. In fact what is Josh better at than Sap? Blocks? Dunks? Making the all star team? To say that Sap/Horford won't work because Josh/Horford didn't work is wrong. Sap did better against Indy in the playoffs by himself than Josh/Horf did together last year.

And let's not forget that it wasn't just playing Collins that got us past Dwight. It was having LD instead of Woody. And disasterous trades by the Magic to send out Rashard, Vince Carter, and Gortat mid season.

Still and again. I'm not saying that Josh was the better player. But defensively and athletically, I think Josh is superior. I think Sapp is smarter and a better offensive and team guy. Moreover, this series against Indy is not a good barometer of where we are. Put us up against any other playoff team not on the verge of having a breakdown because of offcourt matters. How well do we do? Who do we beat? Like I said somewhere else, matchups advantages and 7 games against the same opponents can make anybody look good. However, that is not a predictor of how we will do against the league.

Offensive rebounding we = #28 of 30.

Defensive rebounding we = #16 of 30.

Rebounding rate we = #26 of 30.

Defense eff we = #14 of 30.

Our opponents are shooting 46.2% (#21 of 30)

where:

Rebound Rate - the percentage of missed shots that a team rebounds. Rebound Rate = (Rebounds x Team Minutes) divided by [Player Minutes x (Team Rebounds + Opponent Rebounds)]

Defensive Efficiency - the number of points a team allows per 100 possessions.

[Guest]

Still and again. I'm not saying that Josh was the better player. But defensively and athletically, I think Josh is superior. I think Sapp is smarter and a better offensive and team guy. Moreover, this series against Indy is not a good barometer of where we are. Put us up against any other playoff team not on the verge of having a breakdown because of offcourt matters. How well do we do? Who do we beat? Like I said somewhere else, matchups advantages and 7 games against the same opponents can make anybody look good. However, that is not a predictor of how we will do against the league.

Offensive rebounding we = #28 of 30.

Defensive rebounding we = #16 of 30.

Rebounding rate we = #26 of 30.

Defense eff we = #14 of 30.

Our opponents are shooting 46.2% (#21 of 30)

where:

Rebound Rate - the percentage of missed shots that a team rebounds. Rebound Rate = (Rebounds x Team Minutes) divided by [Player Minutes x (Team Rebounds + Opponent Rebounds)]

Defensive Efficiency - the number of points a team allows per 100 possessions.

If Indy is not a good barometer, then all your rebounding numbers a skewed discounting Al's absence.

The only thing Josh has over Sap is athleticism. Sap is a better rebounder, Josh better shot blocker, Sap edges him on steals, and I'll take Sap in the post on defense and offense.

In 78 games Josh averaged 1.4 blocks, in 74 games Sap averaged 1.1 blocks.

[macdaddy]

If Indy is not a good barometer, then all your rebounding numbers a skewed discounting Al's absence.

The only thing Josh has over Sap is athleticism. Sap is a better rebounder, Josh better shot blocker, Sap edges him on steals, and I'll take Sap in the post on defense and offense.

In 78 games Josh averaged 1.4 blocks, in 74 games Sap averaged 1.1 blocks.

Yes! And there were points in the season where Brand was the only pf/c on the floor for most of the game. We are a team that doesn't value offensive rebounds that much. Bud has expressed that. So even if you disagree with the concept we are a low ranked offensive rebounding team by design not because we suck at it.

[Guest]

Yes! And there were points in the season where Brand was the only pf/c on the floor for most of the game. We are a team that doesn't value offensive rebounds that much. Bud has expressed that. So even if you disagree with the concept we are a low ranked offensive rebounding team by design not because we suck at it.

This exactly regarding offensive rebounding - it was more important to get back on defense and get set as opposed to trying for offensive rebounds.

[Buzzard]

Still and again. I'm not saying that Josh was the better player. But defensively and athletically, I think Josh is superior. I think Sapp is smarter and a better offensive and team guy. Moreover, this series against Indy is not a good barometer of where we are. Put us up against any other playoff team not on the verge of having a breakdown because of offcourt matters. How well do we do? Who do we beat? Like I said somewhere else, matchups advantages and 7 games against the same opponents can make anybody look good. However, that is not a predictor of how we will do against the league.

The season is not a good barometer of where we are; unless we are going there without Al. We finished the season under .500, next to last in our division, and with the worse record of any playoff team.

Just using plain old common sense that makes it very hard to find a match up against any playoff team that favors us. I did find one, we were 3 and 1 vs the Bobcats. I really don't know what you are trying to prove here; other than we are not a very good basketball team without Al Horford.

I hope that is not a news flash for you.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Buzzard

[Ryaan]

Munroe at the centre? SVG reported to say that Pistons won't be offering him a contract, must see Drummond as D12 and Smoove will be moving to the 4.

[Buzzard]

Munroe at the centre? SVG reported to say that Pistons won't be offering him a contract, must see Drummond as D12 and Smoove will be moving to the 4.

I can't imagine SVG showing his hand this early. Do you have a link?

[JTB]

Munroe at the centre? SVG reported to say that Pistons won't be offering him a contract, must see Drummond as D12 and Smoove will be moving to the 4.

Uhhhhh more like the other way around...

http://m.basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233409/van-gundy-high-on-greg-monroe

The question is what are they going to do with Smith?

[macdaddy]

Uhhhhh more like the other way around...

http://m.basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233409/van-gundy-high-on-greg-monroe

The question is what are they going to do with Smith?

I don't know. Could they could get Smith to the Lakers or Brooklyn maybe? I don't know. If they can't move him then I bet they could get a kings ransom for drummond.

[JTB]

The season is not a good barometer of where we are; unless we are going there without Al. We finished the season under .500, next to last in our division, and with the worse record of any playoff team.

Just using plain old common sense that makes it very hard to find a match up against any playoff team that favors us. I did find one, we were 3 and 1 vs the Bobcats. I really don't know what you are trying to prove here; other than we are not a very good basketball team without Al Horford.

I hope that is not a news flash for you.

He's still trying to justify why he rather have a Hibbert, Howard type big over a hawes, horford type center...but at the end of the day hawes/horford type provides more for the hawks.

Now don't get me wrong! If we had a bonafide 20 point scorer I wouldn't even have brought this topic up. But since we don't, I don't see the hawks as a team that can have a one dimensional role starter on the team but probably the bench. (Probably another reason Korver need to go to the bench as well...he would be a great sixth man!)

[Buzzard]

He's still trying to justify why he rather have a Hibbert, Howard type big over a hawes, horford type center...but at the end of the day hawes/horford type provides more for the hawks.

Now don't get me wrong! If we had a bonafide 20 point scorer I wouldn't even have brought this topic up. But since we don't, I don't see the hawks as a team that can have a one dimensional role starter on the team but probably the bench. (Probably another reason Korver need to go to the bench as well...he would be a great sixth man!)

Horford for Hibbert is close to a toss up. But a healthy Horford for Monroe is not...Horford all day. Monroe is not a rim protector; he has a power forward game wrapped up in a centers body. Horford is much better than Monroe defensively in the post.

[JTB]

I don't know. Could they could get Smith to the Lakers or Brooklyn maybe? I don't know. If they can't move him then I bet they could get a kings ransom for drummond.

I think you can move smith but we hawk fans know he need the right team to be effective. I was thinking maybe the pelicans for Ryan Anderson if the contracts match. Great for the pistons, just ok for the pelicans.

Or

Smith to the lakers just to dump him. Lol

Or

Smith to the bulls for boozer. Bulls may be able to play Gibson at the 3 and the pistons will only have to suffer a bad contract for one more year I believe (not sure) with boozer coming off the bench.

Other than that they stuck with his ass! Lol maybe a move to celtics possibly to pair with rondo?

[JTB]

Horford for Hibbert is close to a toss up. But a healthy Horford for Monroe is not...Horford all day. Monroe is not a rim protector; he has a power forward game wrapped up in a centers body. Horford is much better than Monroe defensively in the post.

I guess it's a close toss up depending on how you look at it. To me coach bud would out coach Vogel on a horford vs Hibbert matchup EVERYTIME.

Anyways like you said horford all day.

[Buzzard]

Munroe at the centre? SVG reported to say that Pistons won't be offering him a contract, must see Drummond as D12 and Smoove will be moving to the 4.

I found a link on my own.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/14/report-greg-monroe-out-with-the-stan-van-gundys-pistons/

[JTB]

I found a link on my own.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/14/report-greg-monroe-out-with-the-stan-van-gundys-pistons/

Interesting! I wonder how bad hawk fans want Monroe?

I rather have him or hawes over gortat, asik, kaman due to age. Plus bud maybe able to mold Monroe into a great all around center as he's still in the molding age at 23 so it's possible or is he younger than that?

Edited May 14, 2014 by JTB

[Guest]

I guess it's a close toss up depending on how you look at it. To me coach bud would out coach Vogel on a horford vs Hibbert matchup EVERYTIME.

Anyways like you said horford all day.

Hibbert has historical struggled against us even before this season. I'll still take Al.

Edited May 14, 2014 by JayBirdHawk