The Hawks greatest opponent = Inertia.

[Diesel]

Inertia is defined as a tendency to do nothing or to remain unchanged. Going forward, I think this is going to be the biggest problem that we face as an organization. Have you consider the fact that quietly the East is getting much stronger. Teams like Toronto, Washington, and Charlotte crept up into contention while other teams were injured. Hello Brooklyn. The funny thing is that in 2008, we have seen the damage that inertia can cause. We had a very good series against the Celtics and decided at that moment that we would not change our flawed team by much. We lacked size, we had a PF who thought he was a SG, we had a PG who couldn't Point anymore and we decided that we wouldn't change it by much. A few years later, we finally made a move, brought in Jamal Crawford and did it again. We had a good showing versus Chicago in the playoffs and decided that we wouldn't change much.

Here's my thing. The playoffs are a terrible barometer for making decision on if we need to change or not. Face it, in the playoffs, you go head to head with 1 team. You get 7 games to exploit any matchup advantages that you may have. Sometimes you find out that you match up well against 1 opponent during a certain time. Does that change the fact that you were below .500 and barely made it into the playoffs?

Inertia!!

[AmishBoy]

The real difference between 2008 and now is we are flexible. We found ourselves in mediocrity because we wanted to see the team grow, but we also had Joe Johnson whose contract put us in a bind. The thought at the time was losing him meant rebuilding and that turned out not to be the case. There's no one on this team that means the death of competitiveness for us besides apparently Al Horford and he's not getting a Joe Johnson contract.

What we do know would help us is more athleticism at the wing, a closer, and a superstar. These things can be brought in piece by piece or with one player. Flexibility means we have the options to go either way.

[Buzzard]

I gotta agree with Amish boy on this. We cap strapped our team into mediocrity. So long as we have no JJ's ( overpaid all-stars ) or Smith's ( overpaid non all-stars ) and no long term 7,8,9 million dollar a year role players like Marvin, we can be ready to pounce on any and all opportunities that come our way.

At six million a year, some fans at first cussed the Korver signing. To me, that is the most Ferry wants to invest in a valuable role player; and I like that plan.

[hazer]

$6mil/yr for the best 3-pt sniper in the league is a helluva deal. Korver's D is a lot better than he's given credit for too, many are finally starting to wake up to that fact.

Edited May 13, 2014 by hazer

[Guest]

Back in 2008, the core of the Hawks were a young team (4 older players: Lorenzen Wright, Anthony Johnson, Tyronne Lue and Bibby).Bibby and Joe made 13 mil each, everybody else were on rookie or min contracts.

Al - Rookie/21 years

Josh - Year 4/22 years

Marvin - Year 3/21 years

Joe -Year 6/27 years

Bibby - Old

I'm sure the expectation was to let this young group grow together - problem was they didn't.

[Buzzard]

Back in 2008, the core of the Hawks were a young team (4 older players: Lorenzen Wright, Anthony Johnson, Tyronne Lue and Bibby).Bibby and Joe made 13 mil each, everybody else were on rookie or min contracts.

Al - Rookie/21 years

Josh - Year 4/22 years

Marvin - Year 3/21 years

Joe -Year 6/27 years

Bibby - Old

I'm sure the expectation was to let this young group grow together - problem was they didn't.

That was the expectation in 2008; the next big problem was we resigned JJ at around 18 million, Josh at around 12, and Marvin starting at around 8 million ( decreasing ). That core should have been blown up.

We probably wanted to much in return for Josh and Marvin based on their upside and bad business decisions were made. Childress was the only one we let walk and half this board was furious. JJ was a solid but no where near worth 18 million starting.

[Guest]

Regarding teams like:

Toronto - they have to decide if they will resign Lowry, they said they are interested in resigning him (but remember he was almost traded, he will have a lot of suiters, what if he bolts to say LAL)

Washington - they also have to decide if they will resign both Ariza and Gortat long term. They already have 14 mil each tied up in Nene and Wall, would they want to then have Ariza and Gortat at 8-10 million? (Beware of guys in contract years)

Charlotte - Which Free agent will follow Al Jefferson's lead and head to Charlotte

They all have question marks.

[MaceCase]

Back in 2008, the core of the Hawks were a young team (4 older players: Lorenzen Wright, Anthony Johnson, Tyronne Lue and Bibby).Bibby and Joe made 13 mil each, everybody else were on rookie or min contracts.

Al - Rookie/21 years

Josh - Year 4/22 years

Marvin - Year 3/21 years

Joe -Year 6/27 years

Bibby - Old

I'm sure the expectation was to let this young group grow together - problem was they didn't.

The real problem was they took too long to grow together in the first place. By that first playoff appearance the young guys were already up for new contracts or a year away from it. The decision to stick it out made the team stuck with that core financially. Even the Jamal trade was just shuffling the detritus of the roster while we stuck with our core. He wasn't in the least a hot commodity and Atlanta holds a lot of credit for establishing him as a player that could contribute to a winner in the first place. He was Joe insurance too but once Joe was resigned it was thank you and good luck as the original core remained mostly intact.

Though people often like to criticize him on it the fact still remains that Ferry has shown that he's devoted to the system, not the players. He's built the team in a manner that he can plug in and remove guys while still maintaining an overall level of success. As of yet he hasn't actually established a core, he inherited Al, let the market decide on Jeffrey and has only a season left on Sap. Until we see otherwise there's no reason to believe that he's strapping himself in for this inertia.

[Buzzard]

The real problem was they took too long to grow together in the first place. By that first playoff appearance the young guys were already up for new contracts or a year away from it. The decision to stick it out made the team stuck with that core financially. Even the Jamal trade was just shuffling the detritus of the roster while we stuck with our core. He wasn't in the least a hot commodity and Atlanta holds a lot of credit for establishing him as a player that could contribute to a winner in the first place. He was Joe insurance too but once Joe was resigned it was thank you and good luck as the original core remained mostly intact.

Though people often like to criticize him on it the fact still remains that Ferry has shown that he's devoted to the system, not the players. He's built the team in a manner that he can plug in and remove guys while still maintaining an overall level of success. As of yet he hasn't actually established a core, he inherited Al, let the market decide on Jeffrey and has only a season left on Sap. Until we see otherwise there's no reason to believe that he's strapping himself in for this inertia.

So true Mace. JJ's contract was crazy and I think BK was bidding against himself to be honest. He was the type of player that could be a main cog on a championship team; but Marvin and Josh were not. If we could have shred Marvin and Josh ( 20 million ), our cap could have allowed us to keep building. Instead BK drafted them and put all his eggs in Josh and Marvin's basket.

Ferry took over the team and 1st thing he did was trade JJ. JJ was no longer in his prime and with raises his contract was even worse. Marvin was next, and then he let Josh walk. Now here we are; where we should have been six years ago if BK would have checked his ego in at the door.

I really do think JJ, Horford, and Teague could have been a part of something good. But that window passed us by when BK refused to move Marvin and Josh's contracts.

[Diesel]

The real difference between 2008 and now is we are flexible. We found ourselves in mediocrity because we wanted to see the team grow, but we also had Joe Johnson whose contract put us in a bind. The thought at the time was losing him meant rebuilding and that turned out not to be the case. There's no one on this team that means the death of competitiveness for us besides apparently Al Horford and he's not getting a Joe Johnson contract.

What we do know would help us is more athleticism at the wing, a closer, and a superstar. These things can be brought in piece by piece or with one player. Flexibility means we have the options to go either way.

That's always been the propagated tale that it was Joe's contract. The truth is that we settled with guys like Smoove and Marvin and paid them more than they were worth also because of inertia. We have proven over the last 30 yrs that having money does not incentivise FAs to come here and play. Why do you think we paid Joe so much to stay? We mixed inertia with an inability to draft for need and the future and we got what we got. Treadmill. If we have the same thinking, you'll watch the same players get paid more and us continue the inertia soundtrack..." I like our core".

[Diesel]

That was the expectation in 2008; the next big problem was we resigned JJ at around 18 million, Josh at around 12, and Marvin starting at around 8 million ( decreasing ). That core should have been blown up.

We probably wanted to much in return for Josh and Marvin based on their upside and bad business decisions were made. Childress was the only one we let walk and half this board was furious. JJ was a solid but no where near worth 18 million starting.

JJ had enough value that his contract could have been traded or Amnestied. So don't preach the 18 million stopped us from achieving. The achievement gap came because as long as we were in the playoffs, our ownership was satisfied. Our GMs built teams that were able to go to the playoffs and even give a good series (Bulls, Magic II, and Celtics) but we never built a team that could be competitive beyond the first and second round. Still, the ownership never cared about that.

[Buzzard]

JJ had enough value that his contract could have been traded or Amnestied. So don't preach the 18 million stopped us from achieving. The achievement gap came because as long as we were in the playoffs, our ownership was satisfied. Our GMs built teams that were able to go to the playoffs and even give a good series (Bulls, Magic II, and Celtics) but we never built a team that could be competitive beyond the first and second round. Still, the ownership never cared about that.

Its not so much JJ as it was Marvin and Josh. 20 million a year = 8 million at the time for Marvin who is now a role player in Utah ( corrected ); and 12 million for Josh who was benched multiple times last season in Detroit.

I said earlier, JJ, Horford, and Teague could have possibly been a part of something good. That 20 million in cap on Marvin and Josh was not well spent at all. I don't blame this on ownership as much as I do BK. Ownership ponied up 18 million for JJ, 12 million for Josh, and 8 million for Marvin.

Our ownership has never shown a spend at all cost mentality; but they did pay out extremely well following our GM's advice. We needed a better coach also. Teagues development suffered under Woody; and the coaching decisions falls on the GM also.

We are not the Lakers or Knicks. We should never have tied up 38 million dollars ( starting ) in three players; to only get one all-star. That is what BK did.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

Buzzard, I don't know how you can blame BK when it was Sund who resigned Marvin, Bibby, and Joe.

[Dejay]

So with all that's been stated, BK did more damage to this franchise than we'll ever want to know. He drafted poorly (again selecting one viable player despite having FIVE LOTTERY DRAFT PICKS), then Sund double-downed on guys that should've been shown the door by handing them hefty extentions. Lord only knows that Marvin and Osh weren't worth $20M a year and that $$$ would've been much better off spent elsewhere. As been stated ad nauseum, ownership didn't have a sense of urgency to demand more from the front office in terms of actually contending. So long as the team made the playoffs, it was deemed by them as 'progress'; just ask Michael Gearon and he'd tell you all about it.

That's been the problem with this franchise since it left St. Louis; I think a poster identified it a long time ago as a 'winning without losing' approach. Because of how hysterically bad they've been with lottery picks over the last four decades (I'm surprised ESPN hasn't done a 30-for-30 special on it yet), even they know better than to try and sell the 'rebuilding through the draft' story to us. So they're left wih little choice than to continue putting piecemealing guys who can get them in the postseason. Until either their philosophy changes or until a GM finally nails a draft pick (meaning having more than just Al Horford represent the team at the All-Star game), well...

Edited May 14, 2014 by Dejay

[Buzzard]

Buzzard, I don't know how you can blame BK when it was Sund who resigned Marvin, Bibby, and Joe.

My bad it was not BK but Sund who did the Smith and Marvin contracts.

[Guest]

Blame BK for drafting them and blame Sund for resigning them.

[Buzzard]

Blame BK for drafting them and blame Sund for resigning them.

Yes, that was not a good run for us. Sund also promoted Larry Drew....One draft success for BK was Horford and one draft success for Sund was Teague.

[Guest]

Yes, that was not a good run for us. Sund also promoted Larry Drew....One draft success for BK was Horford and one draft success for Sund was Teague.

I would consider Josh a draft success at 17 considering Jay Bilas said he would be the bust of the draft. Coaching failed Josh (though some of that is also on him).

[Dejay]

That's the thing. We all know that more should've come out the draft from those 50+ loss seasons than just Horford and Osh. Much more.

[MaceCase]

Blame BK for drafting them and blame Sund for resigning them.

I blame BK for drafting them and then signing Joe too. When he handed out a max, tossed in a prospect and a few picks to get a relative vet to join a team straight off negative infinity wins he accelerated the time frame that they needed to get it together and doubled down that they would too. By a stroke of luck we kept the pick for Al but BK whiffed so badly on busts right out the gate that he couldn't even flip those guys for vets that other teams weren't dying to get rid of in the first place to accentuate his original big signing. Sund comes in and I guess he was somewhat skeptical of the first playoff appearance that he let the market dictate salary for the Joshes but then he goes full bananas right after the Miami series overpaying EVERYone (yes even Al seeing as he's missed 2 seasons already of the 5 he signed for.)