Reversal of Fortunes.

[Diesel]

This was not just a lovely book.

I'm noting the Pelicans. They have the most dominant big man since D12 on their roster and he's so very young. They have placed themselves in position to watch him grow with some good vets.

Well, we could be in the same position. The questionis do you risk mediocre to good returns for a chance at greatness? My thing is that if we try and fail, we can always try again next draft?

What do you think??

Do you gamble and take a chance on a great draft pick or do you keep the status quo and get better incrementally?

[Guest]

This was not just a lovely book.

I'm noting the Pelicans. They have the most dominant big man since D12 on their roster and he's so very young. They have placed themselves in position to watch him grow with some good vets.

Well, we could be in the same position. The questionis do you risk mediocre to good returns for a chance at greatness? My thing is that if we try and fail, we can always try again next draft?

What do you think??

Do you gamble and take a chance on a great draft pick or do you keep the status quo and get better incrementally?

Who are you considering the good vets?

I think they have too much money tied up in Gordan, Evans and Anderson and Holiday.

We have pick #15 so unless you are talking trading for the #1 pick? This post is unclear.

Edited June 9, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[Buzzard]

This was not just a lovely book.

I'm noting the Pelicans. They have the most dominant big man since D12 on their roster and he's so very young. They have placed themselves in position to watch him grow with some good vets.

Well, we could be in the same position. The questionis do you risk mediocre to good returns for a chance at greatness? My thing is that if we try and fail, we can always try again next draft?

What do you think??

Do you gamble and take a chance on a great draft pick or do you keep the status quo and get better incrementally?

You can note the Pelicans with Davis, Kings with Cousins, Timberwolves with Love, Clippers with Griffin, Pistons with Drummond etc... they all have good big men who were selected with high lottery picks. They also have this in common: not a one has ever made the Conference Finals, much less the Championship Series.

To answer your question, I am just as happy with our team, cap space, and the 15th pick this season as I would be if I was a fan of the above teams.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

Who are you considering the good vets?

I think they have too much money tied up in Gordan, Evans and Anderson and Holiday.

We have pick #15 so unless you are talking trading for the #1 pick? This post is unclear.

I like Ryan Anderson and Gordon.

Actually, I think Anderson is one of the best stretch 4s playing and Gordon is underrated. I can't say much about Evans or Holiday but they are not bad.

[Diesel]

You can note the Pelicans with Davis, Kings with Cousins, Timberwolves with Love, Clippers with Griffin, Pistons with Drummond etc... they all have good big men who were selected with high lottery picks. They also have this in common: not a one has ever made the Conference Finals, much less the Championship Series.

To answer your question, I am just as happy with our team, cap space, and the 15th pick this season as I would be if I was a fan of the above teams.

Well, the OKC model takes about 3 drafts.

However, it can work with smart management.

[Guest]

I like Ryan Anderson and Gordon.

Actually, I think Anderson is one of the best stretch 4s playing and Gordon is underrated. I can't say much about Evans or Holiday but they are not bad.

Anderson had neck surgery this past season and Gordon seems to be always injured.

[Admin]

Oh look a tank / superstar thread. I don't know why we never discuss that around here...

[Diesel]

Oh look a tank / superstar thread. I don't know why we never discuss that around here...

Well, in general, we never get a chance to have a real live superstar opportunity from the draft. However, if it were at all possible to trade for one (and this is that year with so many teams wanting to trade out)... It should be a subject that we really discuss.

My feeling is that if we went after a high draft pick (whatever the cost) if we fail, we get another shot naturally.

San Antonio would have done nothing without Duncan.

[Guest]

Well, in general, we never get a chance to have a real live superstar opportunity from the draft. However, if it were at all possible to trade for one (and this is that year with so many teams wanting to trade out)... It should be a subject that we really discuss.

My feeling is that if we went after a high draft pick (whatever the cost) if we fail, we get another shot naturally.

San Antonio would have done nothing without Duncan.

Huh ...you mean we blew the lottery picks.

[buckeye242424]

There's no Davis in this draft. Keep Horf, Sap, and ever year improving Teague... DMC and Korver,, there's something there. Keep our 15 pick and roll with it.

[ViperXX79]

there's something there.

Yeah...a 2nd round exit in the playoffs. I've seen enough of those.

[MaceCase]

The Pelicans, much like the Hawks in early BK era, made a mistake in attempting to accelerate their rebuild too early into the process and foolishly gave up future assets in order to achieve it. Biggest difference is Davis has already demonstrated to be legit but rather than spend another year in the asset acquisition stage they decided to draft, sign and trade for the exact same player over and over again, a ball dominant combo guard, while leaving their frontcourt thin beyond Davis and another PF that can't start because, duh, they have Davis. This is an especially egregious mistake in a conference dominated by big man duos.

Teams can treadmill away in the lottery too, the idea is that you're always one season away from success even in the face of abject failure but the truth remains that even if you hit for oil you still have to build the right kind of structure around to refine it otherwise you just have a big spill*....The Pelicans so far look like they are destined to battle for the 9th seed and watch Davis toil away in obscurity much like KG did in Minnesota.

*Yes in the middle of writing this I did realize my metaphor went deeper than intended by mentioning an oil spill with a team located in the Gulf.

[Diesel]

There's no Davis in this draft. Keep Horf, Sap, and ever year improving Teague... DMC and Korver,, there's something there. Keep our 15 pick and roll with it.

Not too fast my friend.

There are at least 3 players who are as good as Davis potentialwise.

[Diesel]

The Pelicans, much like the Hawks in early BK era, made a mistake in attempting to accelerate their rebuild too early into the process and foolishly gave up future assets in order to achieve it. Biggest difference is Davis has already demonstrated to be legit but rather than spend another year in the asset acquisition stage they decided to draft, sign and trade for the exact same player over and over again, a ball dominant combo guard, while leaving their frontcourt thin beyond Davis and another PF that can't start because, duh, they have Davis. This is an especially egregious mistake in a conference dominated by big man duos.

Teams can treadmill away in the lottery too, the idea is that you're always one season away from success even in the face of abject failure but the truth remains that even if you hit for oil you still have to build the right kind of structure around to refine it otherwise you just have a big spill*....The Pelicans so far look like they are destined to battle for the 9th seed and watch Davis toil away in obscurity much like KG did in Minnesota.

*Yes in the middle of writing this I did realize my metaphor went deeper than intended by mentioning an oil spill with a team located in the Gulf.

That's what GMs are for. The truth is that you have to have a GM who is worthy of the Build. People talk about Tim Duncan being a gift to San Antonio.. but forget what happened before they got Timmy D. They were the team that was in the lottery being an abject failure. They draft Robinson. He spent a Year in the Navy. They draft Sean Elliot. Then they spent years playing the trade game.. trading away 1st rounders for players like Mario Ellie and Avery Johnson. Point is that when D-Stern Hooked them up with the first rounder, they had a good team waiting for Duncan.

[Guest]

That's what GMs are for. The truth is that you have to have a GM who is worthy of the Build. People talk about Tim Duncan being a gift to San Antonio.. but forget what happened before they got Timmy D. They were the team that was in the lottery being an abject failure. They draft Robinson. He spent a Year in the Navy. They draft Sean Elliot. Then they spent years playing the trade game.. trading away 1st rounders for players like Mario Ellie and Avery Johnson. Point is that when D-Stern Hooked them up with the first rounder, they had a good team waiting for Duncan.

This was my point about saying let's trade everybody and tank for the #1 pick because we could get our TD. When SAS got the #1 pick they didn't trade off their vets to get worse, injuries derailed them and people forget they didn't have the worse record. When TD joined he wasnt asked to come in and be the savior he came into a team surrounded by veterans who he could learn from.

[JTB]

This was my point about saying let's trade everybody and tank for the #1 pick because we could get our TD. When SAS got the #1 pick they didn't trade off their vets to get worse, injuries derailed them and people forget they didn't have the worse record. When TD joined he wasnt asked to come in and be the savior he came into a team surrounded by veterans who he could learn from.

I wouldn't be so against this if the drafts today were like the drafts back in the day like when Robinson and Duncan were drafted but the truth is that drafts today especially recent drafts in the last 7 or 8 years can really just burn you! I mean these guys come out of college injured or they are over hyped or a lot of them do what I call that "tyreke Evans shit" playing awesome their rookie year and failing the rest of their years.

I see the potential in the top 3 guys of this draft then there are some I think can be all stars if coached the right way but I still say keep the team we have and just build on to it. The most I would probably do without breaking the team is trading to the kings for the 8th pick....they want Dennis for that pick right?

[BrazilianHawk]

Yeah...a 2nd round exit in the playoffs. I've seen enough of those.

Hmmm... yeah... As if Cleveland, Utah, Milwaukee, Knicks, Orlando, Detroit, Sactown, Minny or the Pels were doing much better.

Edited June 10, 2014 by BrazilianHawk

[MaceCase]

That's what GMs are for. The truth is that you have to have a GM who is worthy of the Build. People talk about Tim Duncan being a gift to San Antonio.. but forget what happened before they got Timmy D. They were the team that was in the lottery being an abject failure. They draft Robinson. He spent a Year in the Navy. They draft Sean Elliot. Then they spent years playing the trade game.. trading away 1st rounders for players like Mario Ellie and Avery Johnson. Point is that when D-Stern Hooked them up with the first rounder, they had a good team waiting for Duncan.

I don't think anyone forgets what San Antonio was before Duncan.......They were a perennial playoff team that even had a conference finals appearance......and then they added Duncan to that.

That's a far cry from gutting your team to get in a position to get that guy, get that guy and now having to build from the ground up with that guy. It's where a lot of lotto teams go wrong or end up capping themselves at the original level of which they were trying to surpass in the first place.

[Buzzard]

I don't think anyone forgets what San Antonio was before Duncan.......They were a perennial playoff team that even had a conference finals appearance......and then they added Duncan to that.

That's a far cry from gutting your team to get in a position to get that guy, get that guy and now having to build from the ground up with that guy. It's where a lot of lotto teams go wrong or end up capping themselves at the original level of which they were trying to surpass in the first place.

Exactly! They had a hall of famer in his prime who gets injured; an all star in Sean Elliot who also gets injured; and then they move up from 3rd to 1st in the lottery.

I am positive the playoff bound Spurs were not going into the 1996/97 season planning on that scenario.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

I don't think anyone forgets what San Antonio was before Duncan.......They were a perennial playoff team that even had a conference finals appearance......and then they added Duncan to that.

That's a far cry from gutting your team to get in a position to get that guy, get that guy and now having to build from the ground up with that guy. It's where a lot of lotto teams go wrong or end up capping themselves at the original level of which they were trying to surpass in the first place.

Who said anything about gutting the team?

If Cleveland is willing to give up #1 for Horf.

If Philly is willing to give up #3 for Horf.

Then we ought to consider that strongly.

If the Kings are willing to give up #8 for Dennis, then that ought to be a done deal.

There are too many players who will be franchise changing players similar to Davis... that we should take a shot on and wait for.