Coaches in the East....

[Diesel]

Where does Bud truly rank among Eastern Coaches...  Here's how I see it:

 

 

1.  Tom Thibodeau  = Chicago

2.  Coach Bud!!!  =Atlanta

3.  Eric Spoelstra  = Heat

4.  Lionel Hollins  = Nets

5.  Jason Kidd  = Bucks

6.  Stan Van Gundy  =  Pistons

7. Steve Clifford  = Charlotte

8.  Dwane Casey  = Toronto

9.  Jacque Vaughn  = Orlando

10.  Derrick Fisher  = New York

11.  Randy Whitmann  = Washington

12.  Frank Vogel = Indiana

13.  David Blatt = Cleveland

14.  Brad Stevens = Boston

15.  Brett Brown = Philly

 

Am I a homer or what.

 

I just think that I have seen Bud change his gameplan while losing his best player and coming up with a gameplan that really works.

 

Spoelstra has two rings but He doesn't have 3 because he was outcoached.

Tibbs gets my respect for what he did last year without Deng or Rose. Sorry but Noah is not that good.

Clifford is a guy who pays attention to defense and that plus their rising talent will make Charlotte hard to beat.

Vogel has been giving the world and can't do anything with it.

I'm giving D Fish credit because he has lots of experience and a GM who will guide him.

I'm giving D Blatt credit for his time overseas.

 

 

When you think about what Bud is able to do while lacking talent... Imagine what he will do with talent!!!

How does your list go?

[Spurs]

I put Bud second too. Has thibs even gone to an ECF?

[Diesel]

I put Bud second too. Has thibs even gone to an ECF?

 

The year they beat us in the 2nd round.  If you gave Bud or Thibs Indiana's talent, it would be all over!

[Spurs]

The year they beat us in the 2nd round.  If you gave Bud or Thibs Indiana's talent, it would be all over!

 

Bud has tons of rings. He could make that Indiana team beat the heat. 

[Ebert]

No way Fisher is ahead of Vogel and Stevens. What has he done?

[capstone21]

How with never coaching a game that FIsher can rank anywhere but the bottom?

[Diesel]

Bud has tons of rings. He could make that Indiana team beat the heat. 

It's the same team that should have beaten the heat last year.

 

Vogel is a stubborn coach.  His stubbornness has led to the fall of the Pacers.  However, those guys have hella talent and has even added more.  I mean... CJ Miles... Goodness.  I heard they're trying to trade for Dragic!! Damn.

 

But it doesn't matter who they get, Vogel can't coach his way out of a paper bag.  I'm sorry, if Thibs had that team, they would have beaten Miami in 5.

Look what Bud did to Vogel with our team.  IF Bud had the talent that Indy has, they would have beaten Miami in 6.

[Diesel]

No way Fisher is ahead of Vogel and Stevens. What has he done?

 

 

Well, he's been played for a lot of winning coaches... but more importantly, he has the ear of Phil Jackson.  This is what Phil has always wanted.. a disciple of his coaching for him.  Even More importantly, I watched OKC a little last year, DFish was a guy that that team looked up to.  I'm talking lockerroom leader.  That being the case, he already has a foot up on Vogel.  Vogel let his lockerroom churn out of control and lockerroom issues affected what happened on the floor.  I doubt you see that in D-Fish's lockerroom.

 

Sidenote, I know D-Fish was wanted by Phil because he was a phil guy and he would run the triangle but Phil is also looking to next offseason and he wants KD.  And they will get KD if Westbrook is not traded.

[DrReality]

Jason Kidd is a joke

[DatWerkk]

You have SVG way too low. He's no lower than #3.

[Diesel]

You have SVG way too low. He's no lower than #3.

 

SVG... The Master of Panic?

 

I didn't make that up, his players call him that... both Shaq and Dwight.

I give him respect because he's been to the finals.. But with Shaq and Dwight, he was supposed to win it all several times.

 

Now, when I see Lionel Hollins... This guy is a really good coach and if you would have given him the talent that SVG had, I think he would have faired better.

 

I was just as impressed with what Kidd was able to manage in NJ after Lopez went down as I was with Tibbs and Bud.  I fault Kidd for losing against the heat the way they did.  Still he gets credit for Anderson and SdotLivingston.

[RWF]

Thibs, Bud, SVG in that order.

[WakaFlocka]

Well, he's been played for a lot of winning coaches... but more importantly, he has the ear of Phil Jackson.  This is what Phil has always wanted.. a disciple of his coaching for him.  Even More importantly, I watched OKC a little last year, DFish was a guy that that team looked up to.  I'm talking lockerroom leader.  That being the case, he already has a foot up on Vogel.  Vogel let his lockerroom churn out of control and lockerroom issues affected what happened on the floor.  I doubt you see that in D-Fish's lockerroom.

 

Sidenote, I know D-Fish was wanted by Phil because he was a phil guy and he would run the triangle but Phil is also looking to next offseason and he wants KD.  And they will get KD if Westbrook is not traded.

Quoting this so that I can laugh about it again when the time comes.

 

Also, having Brad Stevens second to last on this "list" is a total joke. Gordon Hayward and his soon to be fat pockets agree.

[benhillboy]

I like Vogel. He was stubborn to go small versus us (which he finally did) maybe because his team has been very successful the past few years with going big and staying that way. I don even know his winning percentage, I'd guess .635+. I don't see a lot of talent over there at all. Two great wings, nothing else to speak of IMO.

I like Spo, too. He isn't great by any stretch, but I think he's quality. Their teams have always been top heavy with a diminishing bench every year. 4 straight Final appearances ain't nothing to sneeze at regarless of having LeBron or being in a relatively weak conference.

Hollins is the model of respect. People think of him a a "defensive" guy, but I think he is good enough to tailor his style to his personnel. They mentioned on NBATV where his roots were as a player with Philly and Portland, and that's the style he'd most prefer.

I'm a Kidd fan and the turnaround he led his team to was miraculous. He did lead them to the worst possible start of a team with that much talent as humanly possible too, so the jury is out. Deron Williams clearly can't handle being coached, I think Kidd making strides at the guard positions in Milwaukee will tell you more about him in his short career.

Have y'all ever heard Brett Brown speak? He has to be the worst, easily. To sign on for what Sam Heinke is doing (or not doing) there further confirms it. How he got on the Spurs staff is beyond me.

Clifford showed me something with the attention to details on defense and the major statistical improvement in that area for them. Still, he's nowhere near elite.

Stan is the man. My hate for Dwight and his AAU game is well known, but look at the rest if that roster that he took to the Finals: straight trash heap. Detroit will be respectable in 2 years, which seems farfetched now.

Thibbs is the man. Got to 100 wins quicker than anybody. But I place him second in the East because...

Bud is a genius. There is no way we should've averaged 103 points last year with our roster. Thibs' offense was putrid, and this with an emergency 16 points per from DJ Augustine of all people (is he on anyone else's FA radar? He only made $650,000 last year). Bud can coach some very good defense when he wants/ needs to as evidenced by the end of the year and playoffs where we held teams to around 94 I think. As dominant as Tom's teams are defensively, he relies on guards to be the primary scorer, bring the ball up, and get into their offense, which isn't a very good strategy. The defense never knows whats going to happen in Bud's offense, but yet it usually leads to a high percentae three, layup, or foul. Flip the rosters, Bud makes a much bigger stride with them offensively than Thibs does defensively with ours.

I wouldn't mention any of the others.

Edited July 10, 2014 by benhillboy

[DatWerkk]

SVG... The Master of Panic?

 

I didn't make that up, his players call him that... both Shaq and Dwight.

I give him respect because he's been to the finals.. But with Shaq and Dwight, he was supposed to win it all several times.

 

Now, when I see Lionel Hollins... This guy is a really good coach and if you would have given him the talent that SVG had, I think he would have faired better.

 

I was just as impressed with what Kidd was able to manage in NJ after Lopez went down as I was with Tibbs and Bud.  I fault Kidd for losing against the heat the way they did.  Still he gets credit for Anderson and SdotLivingston.

 

No disrespect to you, Diesel, but you really want to go by what Shaq says when determining who the best coaches are? The same Shaq that takes shots at anybody and everybody on his way out the door?

[Diesel]

No disrespect to you, Diesel, but you really want to go by what Shaq says when determining who the best coaches are? The same Shaq that takes shots at anybody and everybody on his way out the door?

 

I was there with you until I witnessed him do it again with D12.  IN both cases, how do you have the biggest baddest Interior threat this side of Wilt Chamberlain and you use them as decoys because you like to see the longball?  It was painful to see D12 in the post and Jameer Nelson and others out at the three point line jacking up threes... and D12 never getting touches.

 

Let me let D12 speak:

 

 

"Offensively I have to get the ball," Howard said candidly. "I don't think you are going to win a lot of games when your post player only gets 10 shots. It's tough to get yourself going and get a lot of touches without a lot of shots. We have to do a better job with that."

 

It's just not smart basketball and that comes down to coaching.

 

You say Detroit will do something.   Only if SVG gets the ball in to Drummond and away from Smoove on the perimeter.

[Diesel]

I like Vogel. He was stubborn to go small versus us (which he finally did) maybe because his team has been very successful the past few years with going big and staying that way. I don even know his winning percentage, I'd guess .635+. I don't see a lot of talent over there at all. Two great wings, nothing else to speak of IMO.

 

 

Well BHB, had you watched their series with the Heat 2013, you would have noticed that they lost to the Heat because of Vogel's stubborness.  Bad substitutions.

 

As far as you failing to see the talent.

 

First and Foremost, before Hibbert had his mental breakdown, he was worth the contract that he earned.  He was a 7 foot rim protector who could get you double doubles every night.

Mind you, the Hibbert breakdown happened supposedly because what should have been controlled in the lockerroom went uncontrolled.. and instead of Vogel taking a lead to fix it, PGeorge had to fix it on his fishing boat. Vogel is Woody part II.  He runs his starters to death for Regular season wins and then when they run out of gas in the post season, he has nobody else to turn to.  Turner had a decent game 2 against us, I think that was his last time playing in the playoffs.

 

So let's look at the talent.

 

1. Hibbert - how many teams had a true rim protector/double double.

2.  West - leader, bruiser, who can get you 16/8 per night.

3.  George -  One of the few guys in the league that can be called superstar.

4.  Scola =all of his career, this guy has been a good player.  OF the bench, he should have been magic.

5.  Stephenson = Even though I don't consider him a 10+ Million dollar player, he did put up 14, 5, and 7.

6.  Hill.  Even though they needed help at the PG, Hill is no slouch as an OG.

[buckeye242424]

Spolesta is a good dude... But he's a puppet. No way he's the third best coach in the east. I could roll the ball out with his players and finish in the top four.

[benhillboy]

We can agree to disagree, D. I wouldn't give Dwight touches either when he offensive fouls and is as poor as he is at the free throw line. How close has he gotten to the Finals since Stan, what areas of his game have improved?

As far as Indy, I'm in the pretty sizable "Hill is a bum" camp. He's got good OG size, that's about it. I don't dislike Hibbert, but I can't co-sign a guy who rebounds as poorly as he does. He's the type of dude who boxes out and lets the ball hit the floor. Who does that? I wouldn't mind West or Scola on my team but it wouldn't be ideal by a long shot. Evan Turner is the poster child for tweeners who should be good but cant quite get it together. Round it out with the CJ Watsons, Mahinmis, and Copelands of the world, that's an averagely talented team at best IMO. .625 winning percentage (I was .10 off) in 271 games, #1 seed, winning postseason record and an All-Star win over Pop equals a quality coach to me. Bud is considerably better and much more experienced (Vogel and his coaching staff realized that and adjusted literally minutes before it was too late) and LeBron is much better than PG, hence his recent playoff struggles.

Edited July 10, 2014 by benhillboy

[DatWerkk]

I'm not a Dwight hater by any stretch but my lord that guy whines SO MUCH about his offensive touches. We're only one season into the Dwight Howard-James Haren (please, no D) experience and he has already been whining about not getting the ball enough.