Millsap vs. Horford. The decision.

[Diesel]

I'm a believer in fit and in skillsets.  So in looking at our team, I recognize that we have a problem with skillset duplication.  Namely Horf and Sap.  Not necessary by function, but by where they get their points.   For both players, they both tend to work from the high post.  That normally doesn't bode well for the team that has them.  In our case, there's a bit of lack in the low post and paint scoring.  In times past, we haven't really had a guy who could drive the lane to create those paint points, but now, I can see that with a backcourt of Teague and Bazemore.... Blink and BazeGod if you will.

 

However, back to our duplication...

 

If we were to consider:

 

Salary

Skill Level

Fit

Injury History

Fan Draw

 

What could be said about these two?  Who would be the guy that we pick?

[Guest]

We already had a thread about this. You really don't care do you?

[bumpyphish1]

I'm a believer in fit and in skillsets.  So in looking at our team, I recognize that we have a problem with skillset duplication.  Namely Horf and Sap.  Not necessary by function, but by where they get their points.   For both players, they both tend to work from the high post.  That normally doesn't bode well for the team that has them.  In our case, there's a bit of lack in the low post and paint scoring.  In times past, we haven't really had a guy who could drive the lane to create those paint points, but now, I can see that with a backcourt of Teague and Bazemore.... Blink and BazeGod if you will.

 

However, back to our duplication...

 

If we were to consider:

 

Salary

Skill Level

Fit

Injury History

Fan Draw

 

What could be said about these two?  Who would be the guy that we pick?

 

This isn't even a choice.  Al is our franchise player.  He IS a max contract player that we have 2 more years of at $12M per.  We should be trying to trade Millsap in a package for a signed Greg Monroe.  We should also try to extend Al now, give him a slight raise with the contract front-loaded to allow us more flexibility in the 2015/2016 offseasons.  Don't get me wrong, Millsap is a great player, but there is no way we get him back for less than $11-12 M per, so this is his last season as a hawk; his value to us is as an expiring contract/trade chip.  Trade him to a WC contender a the deadline or now in a sign and trade deal for Monroe.       

 

Do you seriously not understand what a great, efficient player AL is?  People here want to call Millsap an "all-star" because he made the team last season for what and will be the only time in his career.  Al Horford IS an All-Star.  It's fair to call him that any year.

 

This is not anything close to a choice.   This thread is a red herring.

[nathan2331]

This isn't even a choice. Al is our franchise player. He IS a max contract player that we have 2 more years of at $12M per. We should be trying to trade Millsap in a package for a signed Greg Monroe. We should also try to extend Al now, give him a slight raise with the contract front-loaded to allow us more flexibility in the 2015/2016 offseasons. Don't get me wrong, Millsap is a great player, but there is no way we get him back for less than $11-12 M per, so this is his last season as a hawk; his value to us is as an expiring contract/trade chip. Trade him to a WC contender a the deadline or now in a sign and trade deal for Monroe.

Do you seriously not understand what a great, efficient player AL is? People here want to call Millsap an "all-star" because he made the team last season for what and will be the only time in his career. Al Horford IS an All-Star. It's fair to call him that any year.

This is not anything close to a choice. This thread is a red herring.

Haha, this is a lot more complicated than you make it out to be. For 2 of the last 3 seasons, Al has sustained season-ending pec injuries. While I'd like to say it's just an anomaly, the reality is that his health is a serious question moving forward. I think Horford is the better player, but it's most definitely up for debate.

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[Diesel]

This isn't even a choice.  Al is our franchise player.  He IS a max contract player that we have 2 more years of at $12M per.  We should be trying to trade Millsap in a package for a signed Greg Monroe.  We should also try to extend Al now, give him a slight raise with the contract front-loaded to allow us more flexibility in the 2015/2016 offseasons.  Don't get me wrong, Millsap is a great player, but there is no way we get him back for less than $11-12 M per, so this is his last season as a hawk; his value to us is as an expiring contract/trade chip.  Trade him to a WC contender a the deadline or now in a sign and trade deal for Monroe.       

 

Do you seriously not understand what a great, efficient player AL is?  People here want to call Millsap an "all-star" because he made the team last season for what and will be the only time in his career.  Al Horford IS an All-Star.  It's fair to call him that any year.

 

This is not anything close to a choice.   This thread is a red herring.

 

 

I think it's really hard to extend Al without knowing how well his pec has healed?  We already have him set for the next 2 years so shouldn't we just wait and see.  IF he doesn't have 100% freedom/Strength then we may want to cut our losses.

I am not going to doubt that Ferry is seeking a trade for Monroe if one opens up, however, not knowing about how AL looks in a real game has got to make this a slowprocess.

[Diesel]

Haha, this is a lot more complicated than you make it out to be. For 2 of the last 3 seasons, Al has sustained season-ending pec injuries. While I'd like to say it's just an anomaly, the reality is that his health is a serious question moving forward. I think Horford is the better player, but it's most definitely up for debate.

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The other question is Fit.

That's the difference between this thread and those that people say.. I Like Al...blah blah blah.

 

Does Al really fit our need more than Sap Does?

 

I would say the difference is that we know that Sap can play the 4.

Can Al play and defend the 4 because having a 5 in the high post and a 4 in the high post is not a good thing.

[nathan2331]

The other question is Fit.

That's the difference between this thread and those that people say.. I Like Al...blah blah blah.

Does Al really fit our need more than Sap Does?

I would say the difference is that we know that Sap can play the 4.

Can Al play and defend the 4 because having a 5 in the high post and a 4 in the high post is not a good thing.

Not sure if I understand what you're saying here. I can see how you say a Millsap-Horford pairing isn't ideal but if we're keeping one of them and they both operate in the same space why is fit then a problem.

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[Diesel]

Not sure if I understand what you're saying here. I can see how you say a Millsap-Horford pairing isn't ideal but if we're keeping one of them and they both operate in the same space why is fit then a problem.

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Let's follow that... and you will see what I'm saying.    Under what conditions do we keep Al?

 

IF we trade Sap right?

 

So if we trade Sap, what do we get back??

 

Whatever we get back, will Al still play the 5?

 

Are we trading Sap for a Low post dominant PF?

Probably not.

 

Therefore, Either we trade Sap for a 5 and move Al to the 4 or we trade Sap for a 3 and keep Al at the 5.

 

Hence my question about Al...

Can he play and defend the 4?

[nathan2331]

Let's follow that... and you will see what I'm saying. Under what conditions do we keep Al?

IF we trade Sap right?

So if we trade Sap, what do we get back??

Whatever we get back, will Al still play the 5?

Are we trading Sap for a Low post dominant PF?

Probably not.

Therefore, Either we trade Sap for a 5 and move Al to the 4 or we trade Sap for a 3 and keep Al at the 5.

Hence my question about Al...

Can he play and defend the 4?

OK, now I see where you're going. Without using any stats, I'd venture to say that All could play PF at a high level if we were to trade Millsap for Monroe. I think that's one hole this team has. We don't really have anybody who can operate primarily out the post.

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[Diesel]

OK, now I see where you're going. Without using any stats, I'd venture to say that All could play PF at a high level if we were to trade Millsap for Monroe. I think that's one hole this team has. We don't really have anybody who can operate primarily out the post.

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Operating out of the post isn't a necessity.. however, either we have that or guys who drive the paint like it's the only way they will breathe their next breath.

 

That's what the spurs have done.  They have guys who will drive the paint constantly.  Parker, Ginobili, and Leonard only need a guy who can catch them cutting.

 

I think Baze is a guy who will do that.  Kover, nor DMC has that in their game.  However, what they do have is better than Bellinelli and Mills...  They can hit consistently from outside.

So I don't put all the weight on Baze and Teague... we need another snap driver.

[ag82]

I'm kind of interested in seeing how they play together this year. Plenty of time to trade one later on.

[nathan2331]

Operating out of the post isn't a necessity.. however, either we have that or guys who drive the paint like it's the only way they will breathe their next breath.

That's what the spurs have done. They have guys who will drive the paint constantly. Parker, Ginobili, and Leonard only need a guy who can catch them cutting.

I think Baze is a guy who will do that. Kover, nor DMC has that in their game. However, what they do have is better than Bellinelli and Mills... They can hit consistently from outside.

So I don't put all the weight on Baze and Teague... we need another snap driver.

I think we're missing the inside combo the Spurs possess in Splitter and Duncan. They control the paint on both sides of the ball making it easier for the guards to get to the basket and defend.

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[Hairydawgz]

There's no decision necessary, as has been said previously, center/PF are interchangeable in this offense. They can both fill roles because the skill requirements for the positions are similar. If both weren't needed, why pursue Millsap in the first place? We had Horf already...

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[Diesel]

There's no decision necessary, as has been said previously, center/PF are interchangeable in this offense. They can both fill roles because the skill requirements for the positions are similar. If both weren't needed, why pursue Millsap in the first place? We had Horf already...

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I don't know if we know the Depth of "This offense".  IF we're talking something like San Anton has run for the last 15 years, then C and PF are not interchangable.   Somebody has to play inside.  I think what Bud put up last season was in the absence of a low post player.  I would say that that offense is not going to win us much.

[DrReality]

Red herring. That's funny

[JackB1]

This isn't even a choice.  Al is our franchise player.  He IS a max contract player that we have 2 more years of at $12M per.  We should be trying to trade Millsap in a package for a signed Greg Monroe.  We should also try to extend Al now, give him a slight raise with the contract front-loaded to allow us more flexibility in the 2015/2016 offseasons.  Don't get me wrong, Millsap is a great player, but there is no way we get him back for less than $11-12 M per, so this is his last season as a hawk; his value to us is as an expiring contract/trade chip.  Trade him to a WC contender a the deadline or now in a sign and trade deal for Monroe.       

 

Do you seriously not understand what a great, efficient player AL is?  People here want to call Millsap an "all-star" because he made the team last season for what and will be the only time in his career.  Al Horford IS an All-Star.  It's fair to call him that any year.

 

This is not anything close to a choice.   This thread is a red herring.

Agree with this post 100%

This isn't even a choice.  Al is our franchise player.  He IS a max contract player that we have 2 more years of at $12M per.  We should be trying to trade Millsap in a package for a signed Greg Monroe.  We should also try to extend Al now, give him a slight raise with the contract front-loaded to allow us more flexibility in the 2015/2016 offseasons.  Don't get me wrong, Millsap is a great player, but there is no way we get him back for less than $11-12 M per, so this is his last season as a hawk; his value to us is as an expiring contract/trade chip.  Trade him to a WC contender a the deadline or now in a sign and trade deal for Monroe.       

 

Do you seriously not understand what a great, efficient player AL is?  People here want to call Millsap an "all-star" because he made the team last season for what and will be the only time in his career.  Al Horford IS an All-Star.  It's fair to call him that any year.

 

This is not anything close to a choice.   This thread is a red herring.

Agree with this post 100%

[buckeye242424]

Why even compare them? They're both all-stars. Keep them both, see what they can do together! Haven't we talked about this before?

[benhillboy]

They both are very smart, two way players. I think they can figure it out together and can easily contend for the best 4-5 combo in the league with Memphis, GS (healthy), LAC, NO, and Chicago.

Sure they operate from the same areas and neither is Al Jefferson on the block, but they'd win us a lot more games than they'd lose when you're looking at over 35 points, 20 rebounds, and a couple blocks a night from the pair with a versatile depth chart of Bigs behind them in Scott, Antić, Payne, Tavares, and Moose.

It won't kill us either for Sap to play spot duty at the 3. I think Sap takes a discount to stay, we have to keep him.

Edited July 21, 2014 by benhillboy

[tbhawksfan]

If Sap re signs for less than Horf money sure. If he walks... another black mark