Our Players

[Admin]

What Levenson said wasn't the truth.

 

What did Levenson say that wasn't the truth? I know he speculated and gave his opinion, but most of what he said was accurate. Someone posted this link earlier and it was spot on - http://blackamericaweb.com/2014/09/09/don-lemon-says-bruce-levenson-of-the-atlanta-hawks-is-not-a-racist/

 

 

The email was not racist.

 

There is no Donald Sterling-esque smoking gun here.

 

He didn’t say he wanted fewer black people.

 

He said he wanted more people of the desired demographic of his business, white men between the ages of 35 to 55-years old.

 

In my estimation, his message to his colleagues was a smart one; by constantly playing their strong hand or preaching to the choir, they were in essence fishing in an empty pond.

 

His words may have been inartful, but the man was simply trying to run a business and not lose money.

 

He was strategizing in an email on how to reach out to a coveted demographic to put more butts in the seats.

 

It is just that simple.

[Guest]

What did Levenson say that wasn't the truth? I know he speculated and gave his opinion, but most of what he said was accurate. Someone posted this link earlier and it was spot on - http://blackamericaweb.com/2014/09/09/don-lemon-says-bruce-levenson-of-the-atlanta-hawks-is-not-a-racist/

 

I guess I just reject a lot of his conclusions.  Notions like blacks don't have spendable income (some don't, but some do just like any race), we only show up on free ticket or $2 hot dog night and stuff like that.

 

My overall disagreement is in his lack of knowledge about this market and his falling back on old stereotypes was just lazy.  I kinda think it's lazy to just sit back and take that stereotypical nonsense with an "aw, boys will be boys".

[Admin]

I guess I just reject a lot of his conclusions.  Notions like blacks don't have spendable income (some don't, but some do just like any race), we only show up on free ticket or $2 hot dog night and stuff like that.

 

My overall disagreement is in his lack of knowledge about this market and his falling back on old stereotypes was just lazy.  I kinda think it's lazy to just sit back and take that stereotypical nonsense with an "aw, boys will be boys".

 

He was asking honest questions that I'd be willing to bet most businesses have. He may have been insensitive and may have had inaccurate guesses to stuff but that was meant as an internal thing to try and fix the issues they were having with drawing fans. 

 

And just as in the link above, he wasn't trying to reduce the number of black people going to the games, he was trying to increase the number of whites in the target age range so that they'd bring in more money. It may make people uncomfortable to talk about that but I'd assume that's pretty common practice.

[Guest]

He was asking honest questions that I'd be willing to bet most businesses have. He may have been insensitive and may have had inaccurate guesses to stuff but that was meant as an internal thing to try and fix the issues they were having with drawing fans. 

 

And just as in the link above, he wasn't trying to reduce the number of black people going to the games, he was trying to increase the number of whites in the target age range so that they'd bring in more money. It may make people uncomfortable to talk about that but I'd assume that's pretty common practice.

 

Maybe we don't disagree so much (on this).  It's clear all businesses have these conversations, but as you mention it's not meant for all of us to be privy too.  However, once it's out I don't think we're not allowed to react to it.

[Admin]

Maybe we don't disagree so much (on this).  It's clear all businesses have these conversations, but as you mention it's not meant for all of us to be privy too.  However, once it's out I don't think we're not allowed to react to it.

 

We are certainly allowed to react to it and agree or disagree with it. I just don't really have a problem with what Levenson was trying to do. It's basically a less PC way of discussing what we've talked about many times on here. 

[HawkItus]

Dude. No one cares about the ATL hawks. Ray Rice still leads everything on ESPN. SC dont even talk about the Hawks until 45mins into the show.

TBH its really nothing to see here. One thing i havent heard is anyone arguing what Levenson said wasnt the truth.lol.

Like I said, being african american i get called worst listening to my own music (non radio friendly rap music) So what Ferry said got a little chuckle out of me and i keep it moving.

I think one obvious difference is you aren't from Atlanta.  It's different when you are from here.  What rappers say is not paramount to this discussion.  You choose to consume their product.  If you choose to pay to be degraded.........your choice.  Same with Hawks fans.  If I choose to not support the owner and his statements, my choice.  You do you, I'll do me.  Your blackness is not at all a reflection on my blackness.  

[tonegully]

I think one obvious difference is you aren't from Atlanta.  It's different when you are from here.  What rappers say is not paramount to this discussion.  You choose to consume their product.  If you choose to pay to be degraded.........your choice.  Same with Hawks fans.  If I choose to not support the owner and his statements, my choice.  You do you, I'll do me.  Your blackness is not at all a reflection on my blackness.  

I dont have to be from Atlanta. Im a black man living in America and I know that im livining the real world. Things like what was said about Deng is said all the time about minorities and about whites from blacks. But its cool when a comedian says it, its cool when its shown on a TV show.

I guess my point at the end of the day is this. If you are going to be offended by what Ferry or Levenson said, but offended when your own race does it to each other also.

Americans always picking and choosing when to stand up for something depending on who says it, not what was said.

[tonegully]

Yeah, he kinda was.

No, he wasnt.

 

I read what others have responded and just want to add, How can a team which has made the playoffs since 2008 be at the very lower end of attendence?

I know one time i posted here and stated that in order to sell out the Hawks game at home thta we needed a Black Superstar. I was laughed at. Im not from Atlanta but i know the demo down there, being that i do go to Atlanta and have family members in the city. Atlanta is a black town. Maybe a few will thinking of it as the home of the south but the city is black. Just like DC is? And in order to attract attention to the team you need a flamboyant black superstar.

Prime example is the Falcons. When Vick was there with the cornrolls and balling for the team, EVERYONE and they momma came to the games and had the jersey. But really what did Vick win with the Falcons when you sit back and look at it? Nothing? I mean up until 2-3 years ago you could still Vick jerseys at Falcon games.

Why dont all the black people with money not at Hawks games? T.I was there, but I mean you have black stars who live in ATL rooting on and minority owners in teams in other states. Correct me if im wrong here.

In my opinion where Leveson messed up at was not asking those same questions BEFORE buying his shares of the team, as far as season ticket sells.

ATL isnt hardcore basketball, its a football first town and everything else a distance second, third, and fourth. 

[tonegully]

Can someone look up attendence numbers when Nique was playing? The games i saw on TBS, the OMNI was packed and rooting for the Hawks.

[Guest]

Sigh.  @tonegully we are not that simple.  Put a roster/product worth selling out for here (black superstar or not) and we'd sell out.  Any other commentary on the subject is simply incorrect.

[tonegully]

lol. OK whatever you say @kg01

[HawkItus]

I dont have to be from Atlanta. Im a black man living in America and I know that im livining the real world. Things like what was said about Deng is said all the time about minorities and about whites from blacks. But its cool when a comedian says it, its cool when its shown on a TV show.

I guess my point at the end of the day is this. If you are going to be offended by what Ferry or Levenson said, but offended when your own race does it to each other also.

Americans always picking and choosing when to stand up for something depending on who says it, not what was said.

Dude, speak for yourself.  Again, just because you don't do something doesn't mean others don't.  You are just as bad as any racist generalizing your own race.  Seriously?  Atlanta has long had a strong black presence that fights against hate.  Hell they shut down Nelly trying to get his sister a bone marrow transplant because of tip drill.  Again man speak for yourself.  You like how this clownership and management protrary you?  I love it for you.  Fit in their little box and enjoy the seating.  

[tonegully]

I always speak for myself. Never said I was speaking for the entire black community. Im just saying if you are going to be offended by this, be offended when its said by your race. If the shoe fits.....you know the rest

[Admin]

Well his half-baked theory on why whites don't show up is certainly a false one. I didn't find it to be racist, although I can see how one is offended by it. But it is a false accusation or at least it is extremely misleading. I still haven't found a thread on Hawksquawk where the main premise was "oh boy howdy, Philips Arena area sure is scary! I don't want to go on down there because of safety concerns *wink wink* we all know its really because of all those black people showing up!"

Yeah, to have that theory isn't really racist to me. It is just being a f***ing moron. Racism has a lot more to do with infringing on a substantive issue.

Have we ever had threads where someone interjects that Philips Arena area is unsafe? Sure. But all the ones I encountered through searching showed that there were at most 2 posters complaining about safety and they have all been met with other posters commenting "uh yeah, maybe back in the Omni days but not now"...

But like I've mentioned in my previous thread, we just don't see fans turned away because of safety OR racial concerns. People mainly don't show up because of A$G incompetence on setting prices, marketing, and on-court production.

 

Hard to say any of his theories and opinions are false. He didn't state these things as facts, merely speculation. Not having read it in a few days, didn't he say that more investigation needed or something like that? 

[Admin]

Can someone look up attendence numbers when Nique was playing? The games i saw on TBS, the OMNI was packed and rooting for the Hawks.

 

Crowds were about the same size then, but the Omni had a smaller capacity so it was closer to being full. Still though even back then the place was rarely ever a home court advantage like the Lakers / Celtics / etc. enjoy. 

[Admin]

You don't go around with theories and assume they are true. That's a part of science that one should not engage in, especially for theories that are unfalsifiable. Also recall that not everything is true or false, that leads to a false dichotomy.

Levenson put out a bullshit theory with less than 0 evidence. Frankly, he made up that the fan sites are worried about the issue. Because we haven't been! No one started a thread on this issue, because frankly it isn't an issue.

And I don't find people/posters who have the opinion that white people are afraid of (or don't want to be around) blacks as racist. No, that isn't racist to me. That is being a f***ing moron in my opinion...this should probably go in the Politics/Lounge Section of the site but I avoid that like a plague so I'll keep this post in the thread because I think the first two paragraphs have substantial information. This last one is a bit of rambling and me being pissed off. I need a beer.

 

You gotta stop fixating on the messageboard / safety issue. Even if he made that up, which seems odd that he'd do that, that's only a small part of things. 

 

I just think that he was spitballing and throwing out his thoughts internally and hoping to get some feedback. This should have never gotten out. I'm sure we all have emails we've written that if the stuff got out would look bad to someone. 

 

Now if he had released this as some sort of official stance then yeah I think this would be really bad, but with the circumstances being what they were, I don't think that he was wrong. 

[lethalweapon3]

Can we somehow get this particular thread back on the subject of Our Players, pretty please? Or at least Ferry and not Levenson? We're crossing our wires here.

 

~lw3

[Admin]

Can we somehow get this particular thread back on the subject of Our Players, pretty please? Or at least Ferry and not Levenson? We're crossing our wires here.

 

~lw3

 

Pretty much every 1st page topic is bleeding together at this point. I'd create a mega thread but I'm too lazy for that now. 

[OldTimeHawk]

We are certainly allowed to react to it and agree or disagree with it. I just don't really have a problem with what Levenson was trying to do. It's basically a less PC way of discussing what we've talked about many times on here. 

Is there a pc way of discussing it without simply being FOS  or lying ??

[lethalweapon3]

Looks like things are "shaping up" nicely, as far as Our Players are concerned.

 

http://instagram.com/p/s27W3SSXzb/?modal=true

 

~lw3