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Sap is definitely a better fit than Horford

Diesel

By Diesel
in Homecourt

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Afro Rising Star

Afro

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I do believe that Millsap is and will be the better player because he's more well rounded. Nothing against Horford but he's 1 dimensional on offense and Millsap makes a better PF than Al does and I'd like to see us have a real, legit C manning the middle. Horford gets in the way of that.

I don't know if Supes is or not. I'm not arguing Horford right now. I'm arguing that the Millsap of the past 1+ years is better than Horford ever was or will be. I'm also arguing that I don't trust Horford to not have another major injury.

Absolutely. And I think Millsap is an absolute perfect fit here.

Horford hasn't played well. But if he had, why in the world would someone advocate ditching an all star PF to replace him with an injury proned guy who can't shoot 3s and is about as fluid as a 95 year old.

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NBASupes
NBASupes

I was at the game last night in the 100's Section. Seen just about everything in good view.    This thread is a prime example of an one star thread by an one star poster. Horford was huge for us las

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Diesel   This reminds me of some lyrics in an old country song:   "We've got nothing and nothing sure looks good on you."   You're correct.  We probably do nothing and right now nothing looks pr

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frosgrim

I think Dennis' main problem right now is knowing what is an acceptable risk. The game on the offensive side of the court is still a little too fast for him, so he overthinks passes. What I see is an

Admin Newbie

Admin

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Absolutely. And I think Millsap is an absolute perfect fit here.

Horford hasn't played well. But if he had, why in the world would someone advocate ditching an all star PF to replace him with an injury proned guy who can't shoot 3s and is about as fluid as a 95 year old.

Actually Horford shoots the 3 at about the same clip as Millsap, just with a lot fewer attempts. But I think he could maintain close to 33% with more attempts. Problem is he's so robotic he couldn't take another PF off the dribble like Millsap can.

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NBASupes Grand Master

NBASupes

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Actually Horford shoots the 3 at about the same clip as Millsap, just with a lot fewer attempts. But I think he could maintain close to 33% with more attempts. Problem is he's so robotic he couldn't take another PF off the dribble like Millsap can.

Lies...

 

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NBASupes Grand Master

NBASupes

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You do understand the difference in taking a PF off the dribble from above the 3pt line and pump faking getting a lumbering C to react and then driving 10 ft past him, right? Actually I'm not sure than you do.

You underestimate the difference between ball handling skills which Sap has over Horf compared to taking someone off the dribble which you stated Horford couldn't do. Once again, what you stated isn't true even if what you meant is. Sap can take defenders off the dribble with his handles, Al can't. If you stated that, it would be true. Al can take defenders off the dribble but based on pump fakes then either going back to the basket on a small player or taking him to the rack on bigger players. Depending on the defender, he could take him straight up to the rack if the defender isn't good on D regardless of size.

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Admin Newbie

Admin

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Why do we need a PF taking someone off the dribble from the 3pt line? That's not even sensible.

Gee I don't know maybe so that defenders have to take his ability to drive seriously so that they won't crowd him at the 3pt line. And before you ask why it's important that the PF in our offense can play out there, it's kind of important for spacing.

It boggles my mind how you don't understand fundamentals of the game and basics of this team.

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NBASupes Grand Master

NBASupes

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Gee I don't know maybe so that defenders have to take his ability to drive seriously so that they won't crowd him at the 3pt line. And before you ask why it's important that the PF in our offense can play out there, it's kind of important for spacing.

It boggles my mind how you don't understand fundamentals of the game and basics of this team.

Once again, why is a vital for a PF to take his man to the rack from the 3pt line? It's only like a few who aren't tweeners who can do it (A. Davis and Blake Griffin) and I kinda look at Millsap like a tweener with guys like Terrance Jones and Marcus Morris.

 

It boggles my mind how you think you understand what you are talking about in this case. What you are saying makes little sense when we are talking about PF's. Not SG's, not PG's, not even SF's but PF's.

 

We already have more than enough spacing. We could use more player movement like Toronto and legit low post scoring. You know something we are at the bottom of the league in. Sap is a very good offensive player but most of what he doesn't isn't a need, it's a luxury. We need a wing who can score at will and score off the ball. We need a EFFICIENT low post scorer. All the things we get from Sap really is a luxury. It can either be done by Al or isn't that important anyway. Sorry but Sap shooting threes isn't all that great for us when we could use more consistent production from the paint. You know, things that consistently impact the game. See Memphis and other teams who have true PF's and C's. We get spacing from our ball movement and mainly Korver's presence. Sap does luxury things. That might be good if we had someone like Andre Drummond who lack range and they clean up the boards but no so much with 95% of other NBA bigs much less Horford who has good range himself.

 

Crowd the three point line? lol, that's a first. You on one. You are seriously on one. I will say this, you like Sap and that's fine. I do too but we CLEARLY don't see eye to eye. This is becoming a waste of time. This is starting to remind me of the old Smoove v. Horford arguments. I am done with this. Your a quality guy and I don't want to continue this anymore. It's becoming pointless.

Edited by nbasupes40retired
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nathan2331 Experienced

nathan2331

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Sorry I can't continue on wasting my time repeating the same things that you apparently cannot grasp.

He has a point. A lot of what Millsap does (offensively at least) could be replaced by someone like Scott. There's not to many bigs like Horford who can get you points on a consistent basis. That is not to say that Horford will just start creating his own offense, but he can get you points within the flow of the game. Having someone in the post however would probably be more beneficial for the team.
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Admin Newbie

Admin

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He has a point. A lot of what Millsap does (offensively at least) could be replaced by someone like Scott. There's not to many bigs like Horford who can get you points on a consistent basis. That is not to say that Horford will just start creating his own offense, but he can get you points within the flow of the game. Having someone in the post however would probably be more beneficial for the team.

Sure Scott could replace some of his points. But he'd be a huge downgrade on defense and in rebounding.

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Mdizzle5 Newbie

Mdizzle5

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If Al wasn't so robotic and sad with his post moves and/or a rebounding beast, This wouldn't even be a discussion. But since he is, its absolutely vital for him to be able to take other PFs off the dribble. Even if it's from midrange. Thing is, Al rarely does that, even on centers in which he has a quickness advantage over. If you put him at his "natural position," that advantage no longer exists. For Al being what he is, Millsap gives us that and more on offense. I'm not sure if Al's defensive advantage over Sap would be that great on quicker PFs who would just take him off the dribble. In summation, if you have both at PF, as of now I'd choose Sap. Sure, Al's midrange jumper is a little better but once you take that away what are you left with?

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Admin Newbie

Admin

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My point is that finding a replacement for what Millsap provides the Hawks is easier than finding one for Horford.

You're not making the point though if your proof is a guy who can only replace 1/3 of what Millsap brings and even that 1 thing he won't do as well.

Guys like Millsap don't grow on trees. Not saying Horfird does either but while Millsap fits this offense to a T, Horford doesn't. We are better with a low post scoring option, quality rebounder and defender. Again not easy to find but that would balance our team a lot better than finding a guy to replace a guy who's already perfect for our team.

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NBASupes Grand Master

NBASupes

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 If you put him at his "natural position," that advantage no longer exists. 

 

Sure, Al's midrange jumper is a little better but once you take that away what are you left with?

This is the biggest lie of them all. Al has a size and strength advantage at PF and his quickness is advantage at either position.

 

Al is still one of the best finishers and taking away Al's jumper isn't easy or his FG% wouldn't be that high. Brandon Bass has a great midrange jumper which you can take away. You can't take away Al's jumper. He can do it facing up, off a screen or wide open.

 

You Al naysayers sure can make up your own false assessments. For such a robotic player, he always has a high success rate in the post than most bigs out of position and better than Sap's.

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bird_dirt Grand Master

bird_dirt

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Never going to win anything significant with either of them starting.  Trade them both!  Trade everyone for picks!  Blow it up!  Draft the entire Kentucky roster!  They're going to have at least 8 first rounders.  (maybe keep dennis, rather have him than andrew harrison).

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Mdizzle5 Newbie

Mdizzle5

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So... just looking at the stats for tonights game and... how's Horf so MUCH better than Sap again? 

 

 

This is the biggest lie of them all. Al has a size and strength advantage at PF and his quickness is advantage at either position.

 

Al is still one of the best finishers and taking away Al's jumper isn't easy or his FG% wouldn't be that high. Brandon Bass has a great midrange jumper which you can take away. You can't take away Al's jumper. He can do it facing up, off a screen or wide open.

 

You Al naysayers sure can make up your own false assessments. For such a robotic player, he always has a high success rate in the post than most bigs out of position and better than Sap's.

 

Ok Supes. You've convinced me... I will bow to Al Horford, Son of Tito and The Dominican Dirk, as the Michael Jackson to Millsap's Marlon. agree.gif

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NBASupes Grand Master

NBASupes

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So... just looking at the stats for tonights game and... how's Horf so MUCH better than Sap again? 

 

 

 

Ok Supes. You've convinced me... I will bow to Al Horford, Son of Tito and The Dominican Dirk, as the Michael Jackson to Millsap's Marlon. agree.gif

He wasn't tonight. They both played very well. Teague and Schro were the stars.

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