Sap is definitely a better fit than Horford

[Diesel]

Right now.

 

 

My feeling is that Horf won't be the same Horf for a while.  Maybe ever.  We are coming to the end of Sap's contract with us and we have to make the right decision on how things will go.

 

Bud is acting GM right now, but this may be our chance.

 

There are some schools of thought:

 

Trade Al for a established player Asik and a pick...?

Trade Al for a shot in the lottery and go after Towns or Okafur?

Keep Al and Sap?

Keep Al and trade Sap?

 

What will happen?  Who knows.  My guess is nothing.

 

[Gray Mule]

Diesel

 

This reminds me of some lyrics in an old country song:

 

"We've got nothing and nothing sure looks good on you."

 

You're correct.  We probably do nothing and right now nothing looks pretty good.

Hawks are 2 games over .500  and it would seem harsh to try and move

a player or players who are doing well.

 

JJ and Moose are both nailed securely to the bench and it doesn't seem that

they will get loose any time soon.  Shades of the old "doghouse" we are familiar

with from Woody days of head coach.

 

If we attempted to move those two, their value probably isn't very high.

Oh, well.  Being where we are feels pretty good.

 

GO HAWKS!!

 

Edited November 26, 2014 by Gray Mule

[JTB]

Oh Boy here we go!....nbasupe is coming in 5....4....3....2....1.....

[buckeye242424]

Right now.

 

 

My feeling is that Horf won't be the same Horf for a while.  Maybe ever.  We are coming to the end of Sap's contract with us and we have to make the right decision on how things will go.

 

Bud is acting GM right now, but this may be our chance.

 

There are some schools of thought:

 

Trade Al for a established player Asik and a pick...?

Trade Al for a shot in the lottery and go after Towns or Okafur?

Keep Al and Sap?

Keep Al and trade Sap?

 

What will happen?  Who knows.  My guess is nothing.

I don't think we will trade him, and honestly his stock is as low as it's been in his entire career. Horf has been my favorite player for years, and still is.... But, he and Sap, Scott still aren't gelling. But, hell.. We've won 6 of 8, so I can't hate ....

[frosgrim]

I don't think we will trade him, and honestly his stock is as low as it's been in his entire career. Horf has been my favorite player for years, and still is.... But, he and Sap, Scott still aren't gelling. But, hell.. We've won 6 of 8, so I can't hate ....

This

Why would we sell at low value on Horford right now? Second, we are playing better almost every game. The Lakers and Cavs games were a nice wake-up call to the squad to get their collective act together.

 

Let's be patient and see where we are come mid-January. Frankly, I believe Horford will get his confidence back and start playing a more physical game, but he needs to be given that chance.

[NBASupes]

I was at the game last night in the 100's Section. Seen just about everything in good view. 

 

This thread is a prime example of an one star thread by an one star poster. Horford was huge for us last night in numerous ways that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. He was blocking out and making it possible for Korver, Mack, and DMC to get boards on offense and defense. He got in some foul problems. That wasn't on him, that was on the perimeter players struggling to keep their man in front of them but I have to say, it's kinda hard to stay in front of Washington's players. Those guys are really good. Horford protected the paint. Something that was huge for us in the 4th QT. He has passing and screens were huge. 

 

Now Washington gameplan was to cut off our efficient plays. It worked to a degree. That was cutting off the PnR/PnP, forcing Korver to create his own shot and forcing our guards to score without use of the PnR. It was effective to a degree but Teague adjusted in the 3rd and 4th, Dennis adjusted as well and Mack really fed in the 4th off of Al's energy. Sap came up huge in terms of scoring for the entire game. He wasn't always scoring or close to it but he was a threat and he wasn't playing hot potato like DMC and others were doing. Washington's gameplan ultimately failed due to our ball movement even with our efficient plays being somewhat ineffective and Jeff and Mack's aggressiveness in the 2nd half.  

 

Overall, I was very impressed with Al. He did a lot of things that didn't show up on the stat sheet but were winning plays. It's clear we changed his role to something closer to what he used to do for us as a rookie where he wasn't someone we targeted on offense but added more responsibility in terms of boxing out, toughness, fundamentals, and protecting the paint. Being that he is the only player on our roster who could even attempt to do what he's doing stood out. 

 

Kudos to Al. Kudos to Jeff, he played a hell of a 2nd half while looking like crap on defense in the 1st. Kudos to Dennis. His play really stands out live. He doesn't a lot that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. A lot of winning plays even if he isn't the best of shooters. He has some Ricky Rubio in his current game and I like it. Kudos to Sap, his scoring was vital. He was needed and his range as well as taking guys off the dribble is desperately needed in our offense. Sap is getting overvalued as well. He wasn't as effective as some posters here are making him seem especially if you look at the entire game. Not just focus on stats and scoring. Sap defense wasn't good at all. It was overall average. His hands were good. His really did a good job keeping his hands in the lane with DMC as well. He didn't box out much and he constantly looked late and undersized on D in the game. He wasn't protecting the paint or attempting to and Kris Kardashian had his way on the boards with him. 

 

Overall, I liked some things I saw from everyone and didn't from everyone but we won :-)

Edited November 26, 2014 by nbasupes40retired

[Afro]

Keep Sap.

He's only a year older correct? So why is age some huge factor. Especially when he doesn't have health problems.

Why get rid of a 18 and 9 guy who fits this offense to a T, for a guy you HOPE can put up those numbers?

It just seems dumb. Sap is perfect here. Don't get cute. Keep him here.

[Jody23]

With so much uncertainty around ownership and management, I wouldn't count on seeing any moves made this season.

[Peoriabird]

I was at the game last night in the 100's Section. Seen just about everything in good view. 

 

This thread is a prime example of an one star thread by an one star poster. Horford was huge for us last night in numerous ways that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. He was blocking out and making it possible for Korver, Mack, and DMC to get boards on offense and defense. He got in some foul problems. That wasn't on him, that was on the perimeter players struggling to keep their man in front of them but I have to say, it's kinda hard to stay in front of Washington's players. Those guys are really good. Horford protected the paint. Something that was huge for us in the 4th QT. He has passing and screens were huge. 

 

Now Washington gameplan was to cut off our efficient plays. It worked to a degree. That was cutting off the PnR/PnP, forcing Korver to create his own shot and forcing our guards to score without use of the PnR. It was effective to a degree but Teague adjusted in the 3rd and 4th, Dennis adjusted as well and Mack really fed in the 4th off of Al's energy. Sap came up huge in terms of scoring for the entire game. He wasn't always scoring or close to it but he was a threat and he wasn't playing hot potato like DMC and others were doing. Washington's gameplan ultimately failed due to our ball movement even with our efficient plays being somewhat ineffective and Jeff and Mack's aggressiveness in the 2nd half.  

 

Overall, I was very impressed with Al. He did a lot of things that didn't show up on the stat sheet but were winning plays. It's clear we changed his role to something closer to what he used to do for us as a rookie where he wasn't someone we targeted on offense but added more responsibility in terms of boxing out, toughness, fundamentals, and protecting the paint. Being that he is the only player on our roster who could even attempt to do what he's doing stood out. 

 

Kudos to Al. Kudos to Jeff, he played a hell of a 2nd half while looking like crap on defense in the 1st. Kudos to Dennis. His play really stands out live. He doesn't a lot that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. A lot of winning plays even if he isn't the best of shooters. He has some Ricky Rubio in his current game and I like it. Kudos to Sap, his scoring was vital. He was needed and his range as well as taking guys off the dribble is desperately needed in our offense. Sap is getting overvalued as well. He wasn't as effective as some posters here are making him seem especially if you look at the entire game. Not just focus on stats and scoring. Sap defense wasn't good at all. It was overall average. His hands were good. His really did a good job keeping his hands in the lane with DMC as well. He didn't box out much and he constantly looked late and undersized on D in the game. He wasn't protecting the paint or attempting to and Kris Kardashian had his way on the boards with him. 

 

Overall, I liked some things I saw from everyone and didn't from everyone but we won :-)

Great post!

[frosgrim]

Great post!

I agree with this ^^

[Guest]

With so much uncertainty around ownership and management, I wouldn't count on seeing any moves made this season.

 

Great point.  We were probably gonna stand pat anyway but, considering the circumstances, I really don't expect us to do anything 'til after the ownership deal is settled.

[benhillboy]

It's clear we changed his role to something closer to what he used to do for us as a rookie where he wasn't someone we targeted on offense but added more responsibility in terms of boxing out, toughness, fundamentals, and protecting the paint.

Probably my favorite year of Al's. I've always loved him as a player but Supes you have to acknowledge that the possibility of him re-injuring himself and the decreased upper-body strength are causes for concern. I certainly don't want to ship him out unceremoniously because he changed the culture here, but the Hawks doctors are privy to more info than we have on his health outlook. Jaybird touched on it in the game thread, but no Nene could've played a part in Al's ability to be effective boxing out and defending the paint, just saying.

I agree with Dennis playing outside the stat sheet as well. He is always fully alert on D, head on a swivel, hands active. He's clombing the list of the most hated PGs. He's like Beverly without the "ugh, Eric Beverly."

Edited November 26, 2014 by benhillboy

[NBASupes]

Probably my favorite year of Al's. I've always loved him as a player but Supes you have to acknowledge that the possibility of him re-injuring himself and the decreased upper-body strength are causes for concern. I certainly don't want to ship him out unceremoniously because he changed the culture here, but the Hawks doctors are privy to more info than we have on his health outlook. Jaybird touched on it in the game thread, but no Nene could've played a part in Al's ability to be effective boxing out and defending the paint, just saying.

I agree with Dennis playing outside the stat sheet as well. He is always fully alert on D, head on a swivel, hands active. He's clombing the list of the most hated PGs. He's like Beverly without the "ugh, Eric Beverly."

You changed the post since the last I seen it but his chances for getting hurt is clearly higher at C than PF. With that said, he changed up his game. He isn't no where near trying to bang like he was last year. He used to try to bang on Hibbert and Gasol. Now he is facing up bigger guys and only banging on smaller guys. I see him playing smarter not harder on D. I saw Duncan do this with SA about five years ago and it really helped his career. Obviously, it isn't as effective as the challenging technique but if your hurt, what good is that tec anyway. 

 

Nene is a worse rebounder than Gooden and Kris H. Nene would do more harm to Sap since Nene loves to bang smaller players and Sap doesn't like to get banged on D but loves banging on O. Gortat was Horf's matchup as was Serephin. 

 

Dennis is a menace. His offensive flow is extremely good. He really knows how to set tempo. He is night and day better than last year. He's a true PG. His offensive game could improve as well as his passing. 

[frosgrim]

I think Dennis' main problem right now is knowing what is an acceptable risk. The game on the offensive side of the court is still a little too fast for him, so he overthinks passes. What I see is an open pass but Dennis hesitates but then makes the pass- this results in some of the strange turnovers. The only "cure" is experience. I like that Coach is giving him real development minutes now. Dennis is even allowed to play through mistakes.

 

I do think Horford will eventually come around to trusting his strength. For example, it took me over a year to get comfortable on really getting into my downhill tuck on my bike after a really bad crash a couple of years ago. I suspect Horford doesn't trust his pectorial muscles to withstand the banging. Just as i didn't trust myself to go through the corners in full tuck on the bike (hitting the pavement at over 40 mph sucks). The only "cure" as above is playing (or saddle) time.

[Duff_Man]

There is zero guarantee that we will get to re-sign Millsap. Trading Horford could be catastrophic. 

[buckeye242424]

There is zero guarantee that we will get to re-sign Millsap. Trading Horford could be catastrophic.

I agree. I think that's we drafted Payne and Scott is getting his burn.... Not nearly great replacements, but some kind of back up plan??

[Diesel]

I was at the game last night in the 100's Section. Seen just about everything in good view. 

 

This thread is a prime example of an one star thread by an one star poster. Horford was huge for us last night in numerous ways that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. He was blocking out and making it possible for Korver, Mack, and DMC to get boards on offense and defense. He got in some foul problems. That wasn't on him, that was on the perimeter players struggling to keep their man in front of them but I have to say, it's kinda hard to stay in front of Washington's players. Those guys are really good. Horford protected the paint. Something that was huge for us in the 4th QT. He has passing and screens were huge. 

 

Now Washington gameplan was to cut off our efficient plays. It worked to a degree. That was cutting off the PnR/PnP, forcing Korver to create his own shot and forcing our guards to score without use of the PnR. It was effective to a degree but Teague adjusted in the 3rd and 4th, Dennis adjusted as well and Mack really fed in the 4th off of Al's energy. Sap came up huge in terms of scoring for the entire game. He wasn't always scoring or close to it but he was a threat and he wasn't playing hot potato like DMC and others were doing. Washington's gameplan ultimately failed due to our ball movement even with our efficient plays being somewhat ineffective and Jeff and Mack's aggressiveness in the 2nd half.  

 

Overall, I was very impressed with Al. He did a lot of things that didn't show up on the stat sheet but were winning plays. It's clear we changed his role to something closer to what he used to do for us as a rookie where he wasn't someone we targeted on offense but added more responsibility in terms of boxing out, toughness, fundamentals, and protecting the paint. Being that he is the only player on our roster who could even attempt to do what he's doing stood out. 

 

Kudos to Al. Kudos to Jeff, he played a hell of a 2nd half while looking like crap on defense in the 1st. Kudos to Dennis. His play really stands out live. He doesn't a lot that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. A lot of winning plays even if he isn't the best of shooters. He has some Ricky Rubio in his current game and I like it. Kudos to Sap, his scoring was vital. He was needed and his range as well as taking guys off the dribble is desperately needed in our offense. Sap is getting overvalued as well. He wasn't as effective as some posters here are making him seem especially if you look at the entire game. Not just focus on stats and scoring. Sap defense wasn't good at all. It was overall average. His hands were good. His really did a good job keeping his hands in the lane with DMC as well. He didn't box out much and he constantly looked late and undersized on D in the game. He wasn't protecting the paint or attempting to and Kris Kardashian had his way on the boards with him. 

 

Overall, I liked some things I saw from everyone and didn't from everyone but we won :-)

 

I see that even being at the game doesn't help your vision or bias.

You see Al not getting rebounds as him allowing Korver, DMC, and Sap not work as hard to get them??  OK...

You see Al not attempting shots but passing off as him allowing other guys to get the score??  OK.

You see Al being lazy and fouling guys as him... being picked on by the refs??  OK.

 

I'm not talking about Al's ability when I say he and Sap doesn't fit right now.  I'm talking about Effort.  For somebody that can spot Teague being inconsistent and a 28/7 game... you sure miss the inconsistence  of our allstar C.

 

Let me make this a six star post for you...  If we go into the post season As is... We will get tossed out by Chicago, Toronto, Washington, or Cleveland.  The boardwork that Gortat and Humphries did was unacceptable.  We won basically because their shots wasn't falling.. moreover, we tried to Mike Smith the game late.  I don't think that Mike Scott is better than Horf, but Horf is giving me nothing to prove that he's not.

[Diesel]

You changed the post since the last I seen it but his chances for getting hurt is clearly higher at C than PF. With that said, he changed up his game. He isn't no where near trying to bang like he was last year. He used to try to bang on Hibbert and Gasol. Now he is facing up bigger guys and only banging on smaller guys. I see him playing smarter not harder on D. I saw Duncan do this with SA about five years ago and it really helped his career. Obviously, it isn't as effective as the challenging technique but if your hurt, what good is that tec anyway. 

 

It only helps when you have a good defensive and defensive rebounding team.  We don't.  If Horf is going to be a utility guy then he needs to be good in the areas that we have need.   That's defense and rebounding.  Otherwise, we ought to move him for Asik or somebody who can be good in those areas.

[NBASupes]

I see that even being at the game doesn't help your vision or bias.

You see Al not getting rebounds as him allowing Korver, DMC, and Sap not work as hard to get them??  OK...

You see Al not attempting shots but passing off as him allowing other guys to get the score??  OK.

You see Al being lazy and fouling guys as him... being picked on by the refs??  OK.

 

I'm not talking about Al's ability when I say he and Sap doesn't fit right now.  I'm talking about Effort.  For somebody that can spot Teague being inconsistent and a 28/7 game... you sure miss the inconsistence  of our allstar C.

 

Let me make this a six star post for you...  If we go into the post season As is... We will get tossed out by Chicago, Toronto, Washington, or Cleveland.  The boardwork that Gortat and Humphries did was unacceptable.  We won basically because their shots wasn't falling.. moreover, we tried to Mike Smith the game late.  I don't think that Mike Scott is better than Horf, but Horf is giving me nothing to prove that he's not.

Garbage post is garbage. You make zero sense and your post is loaded with foolishness and bias. I am about to put you back on ignore. So much for trying to give you a chance to prove you improved as a poster. 

[JTB]

I think ALL "lets trade al or Sap threads" are way too early...I'm waiting until the end of January to see what happens.