Breaking News: Adreian Payne traded to T-Wolves for 2017 1st (lottery proteected 2017-2020)

[lethalweapon3]

I guess nobody wanted Jenkins.....

 

...yet. 

 

~lw3

[sturt]

Exactly.  How is it a wasted pick when we just traded the pick for a 1st rounder.  I doubt that Minny will be a top team in the league by 2017.  We should get a pick near the 15th spot if Minny can make the playoffs in one of those years.  

 

The odds that we end up with the 14th or 15th pick in comparison to the odds that we end up with any of the 15 picks that come after that are intuitively remote. What's more, we lose the equivalent value of the services of a 15th 1st rounder for two seasons. What's more, because of that, we should have been able to expect the value of the pick we received in turn to appreciate, not remain even, and certainly not to turn into second rounders.

 

Look, I'm one who loved the Payne pick. But it's hard to read this as anything but near-total buyers' remorse on the Hawks side. The timing of it probably was accelerated, of course, by the knowledge that opening up that roster spot and adding some salary cap room might be particularly important... but a team that supposedly takes a San Antonio player development attitude doesn't lightly let go of their most recent 1st rounder.

[terrell]

Whining about missing out on Plumlee or Deing? lol..That entire draft was pretty bad. Not to mention we hit on Dennis...The Jenkins draft was bad too overall. And Scott makes up for the Jenkins pick. If you can get at least 1 good player in 2 rds, youre doing pretty good. Regardless of round..

[Admin]

Don't see how this is a wasted pick when we now have it back.   Do-over.

 

At the VERY BEST we'll have a do-over in 3 years with the same pick that we took Payne at. That requires the Wolves to make the playoffs that year. When's the last time they made the playoffs? More than likely we'll be getting a 2nd rounder from them in 2021 and 2022. Whooopeee! 

[Admin]

Whining about missing out on Plumlee or Deing? lol..That entire draft was pretty bad. Not to mention we hit on Dennis...The Jenkins draft was bad too overall. And Scott makes up for the Jenkins pick. If you can get at least 1 good player in 2 rds, youre doing pretty good. Regardless of round..

 

I guess you haven't seen Dieng play. 

[sturt]

capstone21, on 10 Feb 2015 - 4:52 PM, said:

We were offloading his contract to go after free agents like Lebron/Melo other.  It just so happened that we did not successfully land them but we needed the cap space to try.  Getting something in return would have negated that

 

Salmons was asked soon after the trade, and he granted, that we could extend his buyout period by, as I recall, a week... so the natural conclusion was that there seemed something specific brewing, but that didn't materialize as it turned out. If I'm not mistaken, it was widely reported that LeBron was going to be content to take his sweet time, meaning that most of the market was going to be in a holding pattern until the top domino fell... so, I'm just not sure why you make the deal w/o nearly complete confidence that the other deal is going to work out, and soon (given the Salmons buy-out deadline) without regard to LeBron's decision... but again, who knows what actually happened... it's all a specious discussion b/c perhaps there was "nearly complete" confidence, and that 1% chance something occurred that derailed it all. We just can't know what we can't know, right?

[Admin]

As to the Wolves, they're not gonna become a playoff team with that roster as there's too much youth and inexperience. They need a couple of talented veterans to push that team to the next level. 

[sturt]

I think Wiggins is the real deal, and I think Flip is capable of getting everything going in the right direction in MIN. I think we'll probably get a #20-ish pick in 2018. But don't mistake that as the equivalent of getting the 15th pick in 2014. It's just not.

[JETSET]

Whining about missing out on Plumlee or Deing? lol..That entire draft was pretty bad. Not to mention we hit on Dennis...The Jenkins draft was bad too overall. And Scott makes up for the Jenkins pick. If you can get at least 1 good player in 2 rds, youre doing pretty good. Regardless of round..

You consider my post to be whining?  You are off by a mile

[RandomFan]

As to the Wolves, they're not gonna become a playoff team with that roster as there's too much youth and inexperience. They need a couple of talented veterans to push that team to the next level. 

If they didn't have so many games missed to injury this year, they would probably be pushing for a playoff spot already this year. They aren't that far off.

[JETSET]

I think Wiggins is the real deal, and I think Flip is capable of getting everything going in the right direction in MIN. I think we'll probably get a #20-ish pick in 2018. But don't mistake that as the equivalent of getting the 15th pick in 2014. It's just not.

I would disagree.  The talent in each draft fluctuates greatly and the future draft could easily possess more talent than last year's.  

[sturt]

I would disagree.  The talent in each draft fluctuates greatly and the future draft could easily possess more talent than last year's.  

 

Yes. Mostly true. I don't know about "greatly," but we can agree on "appreciably."

 

And just as true... "could easily possess less talent than last year's."

 

The point being, if you begin with that premise, you intuitively would prefer not to let go of a pick in year one... have to wait two years... and then have a likelihood of picking a number of slots lower.

Edited February 10, 2015 by sturt

[Ebert]

In any trade you make, a first round, even lottery protected, has a lot of value in the NBA. It can give you good players via trade or just wait and try to draft a good project.

 

Once Ferry realizes that:

a) Payne isn't anything special to wait for (that doesn't mean he is a bad player)

b) Payne won't contribute this year

 

Is a good move, because if you don't use Payne he will lose his value like Jenkins. No one would give us a first round pick for Jenkins.

 

Everyone wanted a future all-star with the 15th pick? Could we have made a better pick? Yes, but you just realize that he won't led your team to the next level and prepare your team for the future.

 

That first round will help us.

 

And be sure the Wolves will make the playoffs in one of the next 6 years. The West is changing and they have an incredible roster, they will have enough time to develop.

[JETSET]

Yes. True. And just as true... "could easily possess less talent than last year's."

100% agree. so how can you make absolute statements comparing the picks when it's currently impossible to compare them.

 

Last year's was pretty weak after the top.  It will be pretty hard to have worse mid-late round talent.

Edited February 10, 2015 by JETSET

[RandomFan]

Horford was just on 92.9 and said he thinks we need a guard at least until Sefolosha gets back. They are supposed to replay the interview at 6:20.

Yep, I heard him say that. He actually said another guard that can defend, and play like we like to play, at least until Thabo gets back and they will be fine once that happens.

 

Sounds like the writing is on the wall for Jenkins, I guess. With our biggest need, according to Horford, being a guard and Jenkins can't get any of that playing time: doesn't bode well for him at all. We know Jenkins can shoot the ball; I guess his defense is just too weak to give him any real minutes in our schemes. They probably played him so many games in D-League so other teams could get a look at him and hopefully get someone to take him off our hands for a 2nd round pick.

Edited February 11, 2015 by RandomFan

[sturt]

100% agree. so how can you make absolute statements comparing the picks when it's currently impossible to compare them.

 

Last year's was pretty weak after the top.  It will be pretty hard to have worse mid-late round talent.

 

You're right that an absolute statement can't be substantiated. I'll give you that. As long as you can also agree that, all things being equal, you certainly wouldn't prefer to have the value of a 15th pick in year one over the value of a 20th pick a few years later. There are two issues there--a lower pick, as well as the natural economic rule that an asset today ($1) naturally loses some buying power over time... set in the extreme for illustration, it's why the $30,000 that today buys you a Chevy would have bought you a Cadillac a couple of decades ago. There is value to having the asset/service available for use sooner instead of later.

[Jody23]

I really like Payne, but I think once the Hawks top two targets in last years draft were gone, they would have punted their pick down the road if they could have. It looks like that's what they essentially did today.

[Guest]

As to the Wolves, they're not gonna become a playoff team with that roster as there's too much youth and inexperience. They need a couple of talented veterans to push that team to the next level.

I think Wolves will be a playoff team in 2017, allowing us to get their pick that year. They might be a 7th or 8th seed but they have 2 years to grow, acquire depth and some vets. I think they can do it. I mean Wiggins, LaVine, Bazz, Dieng, and Rubio is a great start. Rubio, their vet now is also their starting point which goes a long way in team play and chemistry in my opinion. I'm willing to bet some Hawksquawk dollars on this.

[JETSET]

You're right that an absolute statement can't be substantiated. I'll give you that. As long as you can also agree that, all things being equal, you certainly wouldn't prefer to have the value of a 15th pick in year one over the value of a 20th pick a few years later. There are two issues there--a lower pick, as well as the natural economic rule that an asset today ($1) naturally loses some buying power over time... set in the extreme for illustration, it's why the $30,000 that today buys you a Chevy would have bought you a Cadillac a couple of decades ago. There is value to having the asset/service available for use sooner instead of later.

The value of draft picks do not constantly deflate like the dollar inflates.  Not sure where you are trying to go with that, but I feel like you are off base with your example.  Their value fluctuates each year based on the draft talent pool and each teams needs.  Teams may be willing to give more value for a pick in one year than another.  That value doesn't constantly decrease year after year.

 

Also, it's not a given that the pick will be 20 or higher.  It's unlikely that the Wolves will suddenly go from a lottery team to a 5 or higher seed.  The East will continue to improve and the bottom playoff teams in the East should have better records in 2017 than they do this year. 

[Admin]

I would disagree. The talent in each draft fluctuates greatly and the future draft could easily possess more talent than last year's.

More talent than the draft considered the deepest in a decade?