Cavs fan - I come in peace!

[CavsFan128]

Hey guys.

I have a few questions for you...

1. I'm assuming that fans don't often watch regular season games of other teams, since most of the time the teams are playing at the same time. Having said that, why do so many Bulls and Hawks fans (and I'm sure others) seem to think refs favored or will favor the Cavs? In the Bulls series for example, there were a ton of no calls and bad calls but it seemed to me that it was going both ways. I don't really get this perception that LeBron gets a ton of calls - I watched almost every Cavs game this year and I don't remember coming away from a game thinking "wow we only won that one because of the refs". The entire Cavs team complains too much, but now that I watch other teams in the playoffs it seems like every team does this. I think that both James and Irving get some questionable foul calls, but I've also seen them called for a lot of offensive fouls this year. The way some Bulls fans were talking you would think that there wasn't a single call that went against LeBron in that series.....in reality there were a lot.

2. When the ECF matchup was set, the general feeling I got was that the Hawks were the underdog. This made sense to me as over the 2nd half of the season the Cavs had a better record. Then looking at "expert picks", it seems like at least half are picking the Hawks. So why do you guys feel so slighted over this? Just curious as more people in the media are picking the Hawks than I would have thought.

[AHF]

Hey guys.

I have a few questions for you...

1. I'm assuming that fans don't often watch regular season games of other teams, since most of the time the teams are playing at the same time. Having said that, why do so many Bulls and Hawks fans (and I'm sure others) seem to think refs favored or will favor the Cavs?

 

The simple answer is that the NBA has favored "superstars" egregiously over the years with favorable calls and non-calls.  Lebron has gotten this superstar treatment for years.  On top of that, Atlanta is a team that has never gotten the benefit of the whistle on any kind of consistent basis so the default thinking is that opponents are routinely going to get an edge from the refs regardless of who they are - kind of like the consistent run of moving screens that Washington used to get Paul Pierce shots.  Even the NBA admitted those were illegal in their reports but they didn't get called in the games when it counted.

 

I am personally expecting to see a lot of these "calls" during the series:

 

 

Lots of games come down to just a couple points and "superstars" like Dwyane Wade have made a living swinging those games in large part due to favorable calls.  We are all holding our breath here to watch Lebron well guarded by DMC and then just decide to run straight into Carroll and get the foul because he is Lebron.

[JETSET]

Hey guys.

I have a few questions for you...

1. I'm assuming that fans don't often watch regular season games of other teams, since most of the time the teams are playing at the same time. Having said that, why do so many Bulls and Hawks fans (and I'm sure others) seem to think refs favored or will favor the Cavs? In the Bulls series for example, there were a ton of no calls and bad calls but it seemed to me that it was going both ways. I don't really get this perception that LeBron gets a ton of calls - I watched almost every Cavs game this year and I don't remember coming away from a game thinking "wow we only won that one because of the refs". The entire Cavs team complains too much, but now that I watch other teams in the playoffs it seems like every team does this. I think that both James and Irving get some questionable foul calls, but I've also seen them called for a lot of offensive fouls this year. The way some Bulls fans were talking you would think that there wasn't a single call that went against LeBron in that series.....in reality there were a lot.

2. When the ECF matchup was set, the general feeling I got was that the Hawks were the underdog. This made sense to me as over the 2nd half of the season the Cavs had a better record. Then looking at "expert picks", it seems like at least half are picking the Hawks. So why do you guys feel so slighted over this? Just curious as more people in the media are picking the Hawks than I would have thought.

In the Bulls series, the one time that screamed refs favoring Lebron was the game where Rose hit the banker 3 for the win.  Lebron got away with murder on several calls late in that game.  I'm talking plain as day calls that were obvious which way they should go and the refs went with the opposite.  The worst was when Lebron tried to intentionally foul Rose with like 15 seconds left because his dumb self thought the Bulls were up 1 when the game was actually tied. 

 

Outside of that game, I thought the series was called fairly.  People will make a big deal about the no call on the Blatt timeout attempt but I don't care to see a game end in that manner. Although, all 3 refs were staring straight at Blatt when he called for the timeout and it looked like Scott Foster acknowledged Blatt and shook his head no.

 

Above all, the NBA is a business and they are trying to make money.  ATL in the Finals over Lebron will cost the league millions.  Chicago over Lebron in the FInals would be a loss but not near as big as the loss if ATL makes it. 

[macdaddy]

Was it one of the Cavs - Celts game where Lebron committed at 2 obvious defensive fouls in the first quarter along with a goal tend that cause Van Gundy and the other announcer to get an argument about officiating?   The funny thing was they both agreed that the refs didn't make the call because it was Lebron but JVG argued that they shouldn't make those calls on Lebron because fans don't want to see Lebron on the bench in foul trouble.    So I don't think it's just a conspiracy theory that the nba gives 'stars' favorable treatment.  

 

I don't think the nba is trying to fix the game for one team or another but making the game easier for the 'stars' effectively does that.  But if the hawks start raining threes and winning I don't think the nba cares or is going to try to alter that.

 

As for the experts, if you're a cavs fan i'd be worried by the number of experts picking the hawks.   I think it shows that people think the Cavs are pretty vulnerable in a lot of places.   But to your question it's been hard to find much coverage of the hawks in national outlets.   Maybe it's picking up i don't know.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

2. When the ECF matchup was set, the general feeling I got was that the Hawks were the underdog. This made sense to me as over the 2nd half of the season the Cavs had a better record. Then looking at "expert picks", it seems like at least half are picking the Hawks. So why do you guys feel so slighted over this? Just curious as more people in the media are picking the Hawks than I would have thought.

 

It's just our history with the national media... Their lack of interest to report and analyze the Hawks accurately and just the general disrespect because we aren't a flashy team full of superstar talent. Most of the eggperts can't even pronounce our player's names correctly. Even said that we were a wasted playoff spot for years.

 

But this Hawks team is different. The Hawks take more than a moron's IQ and a toddler's attention span to really get this team. We aren't dunks and dribbles like most of the "superstar" teams; we are ball movement, space and pace, and team defense... The Hawks are "We" ball as opposed to "Me" ball.  We are a ballet whilst the media is only interested in rock shows.

 

Really the only big media analysts that have our backs is Doris Burke and Zach Lowe. Everybody else seems to want to just dismiss us and hate us cause we aren't exciting basketball for most casual fans out there... Hell, our own beat writer for the AJC, Chris Vivlamore, doesn't seem to support the team.

[volman]

Hey guys.

I have a few questions for you...

1. I'm assuming that fans don't often watch regular season games of other teams, since most of the time the teams are playing at the same time. Having said that, why do so many Bulls and Hawks fans (and I'm sure others) seem to think refs favored or will favor the Cavs? In the Bulls series for example, there were a ton of no calls and bad calls but it seemed to me that it was going both ways. I don't really get this perception that LeBron gets a ton of calls - I watched almost every Cavs game this year and I don't remember coming away from a game thinking "wow we only won that one because of the refs". The entire Cavs team complains too much, but now that I watch other teams in the playoffs it seems like every team does this. I think that both James and Irving get some questionable foul calls, but I've also seen them called for a lot of offensive fouls this year. The way some Bulls fans were talking you would think that there wasn't a single call that went against LeBron in that series.....in reality there were a lot.

2. When the ECF matchup was set, the general feeling I got was that the Hawks were the underdog. This made sense to me as over the 2nd half of the season the Cavs had a better record. Then looking at "expert picks", it seems like at least half are picking the Hawks. So why do you guys feel so slighted over this? Just curious as more people in the media are picking the Hawks than I would have thought.

 

Sorry man, but you suffer from blatant homerism.  Welcome to the board, but you have got to be kidding me with the, "LeBron doesn't get calls.. I watch the games" stuff.  The Cavs have been on TV all year and LeBron has gotten calls his entire career.  It is just a known fact.  

 

Hawks in 6, though. 

One more thing-- it isn't a call against LeBron when he ACTUALLY gets called for an offensive foul.  It seems shocking when he is called for them, because in actuality he never gets called for those after bulldozing over his defender.  I just laugh sometimes. 

[Guest]

Sorry man, but you suffer from blatant homerism.  Welcome to the board, but you have got to be kidding me with the, "LeBron doesn't get calls.. I watch the games" stuff.  The Cavs have been on TV all year and LeBron has gotten calls his entire career.  It is just a known fact.  

 

Hawks in 6, though. 

One more thing-- it isn't a call against LeBron when he ACTUALLY gets called for an offensive foul.  It seems shocking when he is called for them, because in actuality he never gets called for those after bulldozing over his defender.  I just laugh sometimes. 

 

Gotta agree, anyone that thinks LiiBrown doesn't get calls is blind.  Also, the idea that all the eggsperts are picking the Hawgs is laughable.

 

Some eggs are picking us but MOST roundly dismiss us as cannon fodder.  We may win, we may lose, but we'll be anything but an easy out.  Anyone who's "analysis" is that let's me know they stop watching us around the time when Jamal Crawford left.

[volman]

Gotta agree, anyone that thinks LiiBrown doesn't get calls is blind.  Also, the idea that all the eggsperts are picking the Hawgs is laughable.

 

Some eggs are picking us but MOST roundly dismiss us as cannon fodder.  We may win, we may lose, but we'll be anything but an easy out.  Anyone who's "analysis" is that let's me know they stop watching us around the time when Jamal Crawford left.

 

The way the "Experts" like Steven Ass Smith talk about this series shows how little they have watched the Hawks this year.  I find it quite lazy of these journalists to pull the "superstar" card as a reason for the Cavs to win over the Hawks.  The Hawks have the better team and the better coaching staff.  Do the Cavs have LeBron?  Yes, they do... But I will take him scoring 75 points and the Hawks scoring 76 and winning..all day.

 

Hawks in 6! 

[CavsFan128]

I realize LeBron gets calls, I just don't think it's as bad as people think. For background, I've been a Cavs fan since the 90s. When LeBron went to Miami, I went all Dan Gilbert on him and rooted for him to lose, every single game. In all the finals against the Mavs, Thunder, Spurs and Spurs - I was PASSIONATELY rooting for the West. In each of those, I never once came away thinking that LeBron getting some superstar or bs calls had an impact on the games. When the Heat won, they deserved it. When the Heat lost, they deserved it. I've forgiven LeBron obviously, and hope for a title. But I'm not a blatant homer when it comes to LeBron....not even close.

In reading opposing fans viewpoints, it seems to me that if the Cavs do win this series, it's predetermined that it would be because of the officials. I think what the Hawks did this year was great. I'm not a believer that the NBA fixes anything...if the Cavs win this series, it will be because they earned it.

[willthepureshooter]

Sounds like a beat writer to me.. Move on foreigner!

[CavsFan128]

I disagree that the Hawks have the better team, but that will be proven out in this series. For what it's worth, here's why I like the Cavs in 6:

Our offense is more than just superstars - it's also predicated on ball movement. LeBron is one of the best passers in the NBA, and I like our chances of getting open looks.

The Bulls are better than the Wizards. Obviously matchups differentiate and what one team struggles with another may not, but the Cavs have played stronger competition to this point.

The Cavs offense and defensive ratings are better in the playoffs, after playing against a better team.

Too much pressure on the Hawks. 1. the home team always has pressure to win the first two in a series; 2. as a Cavs fan I didn't expect them to win it all this year. They set the expectation with the fanbase when they said it's a process. I don't expect the Cavs to win tonight, but if we do...yikes. That's what I mean by pressure.

[Guest]

Sounds like a beat writer to me.. Move on foreigner!

 

Lol, the OP is Windhorst.  Nah, he's too busy ripping Curry for having his daughter at the press conference last night.  If I'm Curry (who I can't stand) I let my 2yo answer any questions Windhorst asks from now on.

 

Put that in your sausage hole and smoke it, Brian

 

{Sorry for the tangent, had that on my mind.}

[Guest]

Hey guys.

I have a few questions for you...

1. I'm assuming that fans don't often watch regular season games of other teams, since most of the time the teams are playing at the same time. Having said that, why do so many Bulls and Hawks fans (and I'm sure others) seem to think refs favored or will favor the Cavs? In the Bulls series for example, there were a ton of no calls and bad calls but it seemed to me that it was going both ways. I don't really get this perception that LeBron gets a ton of calls - I watched almost every Cavs game this year and I don't remember coming away from a game thinking "wow we only won that one because of the refs". The entire Cavs team complains too much, but now that I watch other teams in the playoffs it seems like every team does this. I think that both James and Irving get some questionable foul calls, but I've also seen them called for a lot of offensive fouls this year. The way some Bulls fans were talking you would think that there wasn't a single call that went against LeBron in that series.....in reality there were a lot.

2. When the ECF matchup was set, the general feeling I got was that the Hawks were the underdog. This made sense to me as over the 2nd half of the season the Cavs had a better record. Then looking at "expert picks", it seems like at least half are picking the Hawks. So why do you guys feel so slighted over this? Just curious as more people in the media are picking the Hawks than I would have thought.

@CavsFan128 Welcome. It's not only that LeBron gets favorable calls it's also that the Hawks don't get calls either.

There was a game in Atlanta when LBJ was with the Heat, the entire first half Heat had ZERO fouls, not one freethrow for the Hawks.

[Guest]

Hmm, Rick Fox says Hawks will win.  Says Teague/Dennis will be unguardable.

 

Maybe Windhorst is onto something?

[Atlantaholic]

@CavsFan128 Welcome. It's not only that LeBron gets favorable calls it's also that the Hawks don't get calls either.

There was a game in Atlanta when LBJ was with the Heat, the entire first half Heat had ZERO fouls, not one freethrow for the Hawks.

 

Or just read the NBA published report of all the call in the last two minutes of any of our playoff games lol

[AHF]

I realize LeBron gets calls, I just don't think it's as bad as people think. For background, I've been a Cavs fan since the 90s. When LeBron went to Miami, I went all Dan Gilbert on him and rooted for him to lose, every single game. In all the finals against the Mavs, Thunder, Spurs and Spurs - I was PASSIONATELY rooting for the West. In each of those, I never once came away thinking that LeBron getting some superstar or bs calls had an impact on the games. When the Heat won, they deserved it. When the Heat lost, they deserved it. I've forgiven LeBron obviously, and hope for a title. But I'm not a blatant homer when it comes to LeBron....not even close.

In reading opposing fans viewpoints, it seems to me that if the Cavs do win this series, it's predetermined that it would be because of the officials. I think what the Hawks did this year was great. I'm not a believer that the NBA fixes anything...if the Cavs win this series, it will be because they earned it.

 

This may just boil down to a matter of perception.  Everyone agrees Lebron gets calls.  More people here are going to think it is exactly as bad as we think, especially after we lived it repeatedly with him in Miami.

 

I am not of the opinion that the NBA will fix this series or that the refs will be intentionally trying to throw the games.  I am not a believer that the Cavs may not win this series and deserve to win it.

 

I just think there is a very real possibility that this could be a close series where the refs play a deciding factor in favor of the Lebrons.  I hope it doesn't happen that the refs decide games for either team - either by making a bad call or just as much by swallowing the whistle when a call should be made.  The NBA doesn't have a good track record on that, though, and so I sure wouldn't bet on either the Hawks getting the benefit of bad calls and I sure wouldn't bet on Lebron not getting several freebie calls every game.

[NBASupes]

Bye Windhorst

[macdaddy]

I realize LeBron gets calls, I just don't think it's as bad as people think. For background, I've been a Cavs fan since the 90s. When LeBron went to Miami, I went all Dan Gilbert on him and rooted for him to lose, every single game. In all the finals against the Mavs, Thunder, Spurs and Spurs - I was PASSIONATELY rooting for the West. In each of those, I never once came away thinking that LeBron getting some superstar or bs calls had an impact on the games. When the Heat won, they deserved it. When the Heat lost, they deserved it. I've forgiven LeBron obviously, and hope for a title. But I'm not a blatant homer when it comes to LeBron....not even close.

In reading opposing fans viewpoints, it seems to me that if the Cavs do win this series, it's predetermined that it would be because of the officials. I think what the Hawks did this year was great. I'm not a believer that the NBA fixes anything...if the Cavs win this series, it will be because they earned it.

 

I think the NBA is successful for a reason.  They aren't stupid.  If people thought teams actually won because the officials rigged it no one would watch.   But giving the the best players in the league an added edge is very subtle, and extremely effective.   When you get to the end of the game fans don't attribute the victory to two uncalled muggings by Lebron in the first quarter, but how drastically do non-calls like that change the rest of the game.  I'd say a lot.  

[macdaddy]

I disagree that the Hawks have the better team, but that will be proven out in this series. For what it's worth, here's why I like the Cavs in 6:

Our offense is more than just superstars - it's also predicated on ball movement. LeBron is one of the best passers in the NBA, and I like our chances of getting open looks.

The Bulls are better than the Wizards. Obviously matchups differentiate and what one team struggles with another may not, but the Cavs have played stronger competition to this point.

The Cavs offense and defensive ratings are better in the playoffs, after playing against a better team.

Too much pressure on the Hawks. 1. the home team always has pressure to win the first two in a series; 2. as a Cavs fan I didn't expect them to win it all this year. They set the expectation with the fanbase when they said it's a process. I don't expect the Cavs to win tonight, but if we do...yikes. That's what I mean by pressure.

 

I think there are a lot of reasons the Cavs could win this series.   To me the biggest problems the Hawks will have is keeping Demarre, Horford and Millsap out of foul trouble and keeping Thompson and Mozgov off the offensive glass.   In the playoffs I don't really believe there was that much difference between the Bulls and Wiz, Celts and Nets.  In fact I think the Nets were a much better team in the playoffs than the celtics.   I'm just not a believer in the Bulls or Thibs.   When's the last time they met or exceeded expectations?

 

But there is a lot of pressure on the Hawks.   It'll be interesting to see if they can stay focused.   

[Guest]

And it's not just LeBron the player that gets calls it's LeBron the team as well.