My case for signing Millsap and moving him to small forward...

[atlhawks1]

This is considered ONLY if the Hawks dont sign DMC, AND go out and sign a big. Why do people think that signing Aldridge or Gasol, etc. would mean that Sap is gone? Ive said numerous times that Sap can play the 3. He HAS the ability to play out there. He plays more like a 3 than a 4 anyway, and has the size of a big 3. If they dont sign DMC and DO get a Aldridge, that would be a beast lineup.

 

Suddenly, the Hawks would go from the bottom of team rebounding, to one of the best. Sap would abuse other small forwards with his size and quickness from the 3. He could be the Hawks version of Lebron James coming from the 3 position. He has a unique skillset in that he is too quick for big power forwards, and too strong for small forwards to handle. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He missed the bucket here, but look at how he shook the Wizard bigs like a small forward would do:

 

 

Edited June 28, 2015 by atlhawks1

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I've tried to make this case before, but it didn't go over well with most of our senior Squawk members. I argued that Sap is a good enough 3pt shooter and has great finishing ability around the hoop to be good at the SF position. Problem is that there are two sides to a basketball game and Sap's numbers come because he is able to play less athletic players at the 4. I like the idea of the big lineup and I believe Sap has just enough athleticism to hang with 80% of the league's SFs, but Bud tried putting Sap on LeBron in the ECF and LeBron looked him like "You have got to be joking". We dealt with Horford playing out of position all of these years... The numbers says that Sap was our best defensive player last season.

 

It's easy to say that we could play the match-up game against the LeBron, Melo, and Durant's in the league, but this isn't the Woody or Drew era Hawks where we have our normal lineup and big lineup when we play Dwight. We don't do that and if Sap is our primary SF, then we might as well chalk up all of the games vs. New York, Cleveland, and OKC as 40-point games for their superstars. Also, it's likely that we meet LeBron again in next year's ECF, so... IDK. I'd rather pay DMC Sap's money to be our SF, but if Detroit steals Demarre, then I guess it's at least a possibility.

[Guest]

This is considered ONLY if the Hawks dont sign DMC, AND go out and sign a big. Why do people think that signing Aldridge or Gasol, etc. would mean that Sap is gone? Ive said numerous times that Sap can play the 3. He HAS the ability to play out there. He plays more like a 3 than a 4 anyway, and has the size of a big 3. If they dont sign DMC and DO get a Aldridge, that would be a beast lineup.

Suddenly, the Hawks would go from the bottom of team rebounding, to one of the best. Sap would abuse other small forwards with his size and quickness from the 3. He could be the Hawks version of Lebron James coming from the 3 position. He has a unique skillset in that he is too quick for big power forwards, and too strong for small forwards to handle.

He missed the bucket here, but look at how he shook the Wizard bigs like a small forward would do:

Lol...dude...in every one of these highlights, SAP has a pf/c on him. I'm not saying he can't play sf for stretches in a game but I'm not sure for the bulk of his minutes. Also, if you trying to stamp home your point, let's see some highlights where he actually shakes a sf. Lol

[sturt]

This is considered ONLY if the Hawks dont sign DMC, AND go out and sign a big. Why do people think that signing Aldridge or Gasol, etc. would mean that Sap is gone? Ive said numerous times that Sap can play the 3. He HAS the ability to play out there. He plays more like a 3 than a 4 anyway, and has the size of a big 3. If they dont sign DMC and DO get a Aldridge, that would be a beast lineup.

 

Suddenly, the Hawks would go from the bottom of team rebounding, to one of the best. Sap would abuse other small forwards with his size and quickness from the 3. He could be the Hawks version of Lebron James coming from the 3 position. He has a unique skillset in that he is too quick for big power forwards, and too strong for small forwards to handle. 

 

 

Even if we buy-in to the concept, I think the answer to your question would become pretty clear if you read-up on the salary cap constraints we're under. There's just not enough cap room to afford both a Gasol and a Sap, plain and simple. DMC is only going to be affordable if (a) Sap is willing to take the early bird (16.625m) and (b) DMC is willing to settle for something less than $12m, though the exact number could fluctuate depending on who might get traded to create space.

Edited June 28, 2015 by sturt

[atlhawks1]

Even if we buy-in to the concept, I think the answer to your question would become pretty clear if you read-up on the salary cap constraints we're under. There's just not enough cap room to afford both a Gasol and a Sap, plain and simple. DMC is only going to be affordable if (a) Sap is willing to take the early bird (16.625m) and (b) DMC is willing to settle for something less than $12m, though the exact number could fluctuate depending on who might get traded to create space.

 

Ok. lets back up. Lets assume DMC signs somewhere else. Hawks fans believe that would leave a whole at small forward. I say it will not if the Hawks sign Millsap and slide him over to 3.

 

Next, HOW can the Hawks sign Millsap AND sign a Aldridge, Gasol, etc.? Is there ANY way of doing that? This scenario CAN come up because with DMC not being able to get what he wants under the early bird, its likely he WOULD sign a max deal elsewhere.

Edited June 28, 2015 by atlhawks1

[atlhawks1]

Lol...dude...in every one of these highlights, SAP has a pf/c on him. I'm not saying he can't play sf for stretches in a game but I'm not sure for the bulk of his minutes. Also, if you trying to stamp home your point, let's see some highlights where he actually shakes a sf. Lol

 

But you ignored that ONE of my points was that Sap is too quick for other team's bigs. You just wanted to disagree........lmao

[atlhawks1]

I've tried to make this case before, but it didn't go over well with most of our senior Squawk members. I argued that Sap is a good enough 3pt shooter and has great finishing ability around the hoop to be good at the SF position. Problem is that there are two sides to a basketball game and Sap's numbers come because he is able to play less athletic players at the 4. I like the idea of the big lineup and I believe Sap has just enough athleticism to hang with 80% of the league's SFs, but Bud tried putting Sap on LeBron in the ECF and LeBron looked him like "You have got to be joking". We dealt with Horford playing out of position all of these years... The numbers says that Sap was our best defensive player last season.

 

It's easy to say that we could play the match-up game against the LeBron, Melo, and Durant's in the league, but this isn't the Woody or Drew era Hawks where we have our normal lineup and big lineup when we play Dwight. We don't do that and if Sap is our primary SF, then we might as well chalk up all of the games vs. New York, Cleveland, and OKC as 40-point games for their superstars. Also, it's likely that we meet LeBron again in next year's ECF, so... IDK. I'd rather pay DMC Sap's money to be our SF, but if Detroit steals Demarre, then I guess it's at least a possibility.

 

Good write up. The only problem is, WHAT did the other Hawks do against Lebron????? Sap getting beat by James was nothing. Where is Thabo next year? Isnt he suppose to be the hired defensive specialist?? I rather start Sap at the 3 where he can dominate MOST small forwards, and have Thabo get minutes again the Lebron James.

 

Lastly, James gets MOST of his points with his bull rushes to the rim. That means ULTIMATELY, the Hawks failure against him is the combination of playing a Millsap, Horford small front line. If lebron had to bull rush thru Sap, Aldridge AND Horford??? Think about it, its not happening. The Hawks played a munchkin lineup and got dominated.

Edited June 28, 2015 by atlhawks1

[rd79]

But you ignored that ONE of my points was that Sap is too quick for other team's bigs. You just wanted to disagree........lmao

Pauls main advatange vs bigs is his quickness. True. But if you make him at SF this advantage will be gone - at least vs his regular defenders.

He and Horf are a small frontcourt and they use that. But like Paul (to the 3) I think it's not possible to switch Al to the four any more. They made a career out of being quicker than their matchups. I don't think they can change their game completely and rely on their strength on the smaller positions all of a sudden...

[atlhawks1]

Pauls main advatange vs bigs is his quickness. True. But if you make him at SF this advantage will be gone - at least vs his regular defenders.

He and Horf are a small frontcourt and they use that. But like Paul (to the 3) I think it's not possible to switch Al to the four any more. They made a career out of being quicker than their matchups. I don't think they can change their game completely and rely on their strength on the smaller positions all of a sudden...

 

When you look at Paul's game, it looks like he was FORCED more into being a 4, vs being a big 3. Just like Joe Johnson is a big 2, who can play the 3. Horford, when Sap was out and they put Moose at the 5 and slid Horford over to his natural 4, had one of the best games i saw Horford play this year.  

 

Horford gets abused in the paint on defense. He is getting older. I said even BEFORE the end of the season that the Hawks should consider removing Korver from the starting lineup, slide DMC down to 2, Sap to 3 and Horford to 4. Bring Moose into the starting 5. Hawks didnt do that and got dominated in the playoffs and were lucky to beat Brooklyn in the first round and a Horford rebound and put back from getting beat in the second round.

Edited June 28, 2015 by atlhawks1

[Guest]

But you ignored that ONE of my points was that Sap is too quick for other team's bigs. You just wanted to disagree........lmao

WUUUUUAAAATTTT?????...lol. Do you read what you write? Sap is too quick for the other team's bigs? That's why he should play sf? That's like saying apples make good pies so let's use apples in lasagna....:-/

[wolvetigers]

I've tried to make this case before, but it didn't go over well with most of our senior Squawk members. I argued that Sap is a good enough 3pt shooter and has great finishing ability around the hoop to be good at the SF position. Problem is that there are two sides to a basketball game and Sap's numbers come because he is able to play less athletic players at the 4. I like the idea of the big lineup and I believe Sap has just enough athleticism to hang with 80% of the league's SFs, but Bud tried putting Sap on LeBron in the ECF and LeBron looked him like "You have got to be joking". We dealt with Horford playing out of position all of these years... The numbers says that Sap was our best defensive player last season.

 

It's easy to say that we could play the match-up game against the LeBron, Melo, and Durant's in the league, but this isn't the Woody or Drew era Hawks where we have our normal lineup and big lineup when we play Dwight. We don't do that and if Sap is our primary SF, then we might as well chalk up all of the games vs. New York, Cleveland, and OKC as 40-point games for their superstars. Also, it's likely that we meet LeBron again in next year's ECF, so... IDK. I'd rather pay DMC Sap's money to be our SF, but if Detroit steals Demarre, then I guess it's at least a possibility.

 

Agreed...Milsap loses his advantage playing at the SF position...PF is the position he needs to play, but he is not the best rebounder...Coach Bud has an interesting decision to make in Free Agency. 

[Vol4ever]

Gasol is a pipe team imo. Sap could play the 3 and I would we put Horf at the 4. The sign a defensive rebounding center.

[sturt]

Ok. lets back up. Lets assume DMC signs somewhere else. Hawks fans believe that would leave a whole at small forward. I say it will not if the Hawks sign Millsap and slide him over to 3.

 

Next, HOW can the Hawks sign Millsap AND sign a Aldridge, Gasol, etc.? Is there ANY way of doing that? This scenario CAN come up because with DMC not being able to get what he wants under the early bird, its likely he WOULD sign a max deal elsewhere.

 

You'd have to shave off some of our larger contracts, so not without sacrificing in some other area of the core... probably Teague.

 

Here, read this... many of us learn a lot from our local capologists... maybe you can, too...

 

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2015/5/29/8675137/nba-salary-cap-free-agents-atlanta-hawks

[atlhawks1]

Gasol is a pipe team imo. Sap could play the 3 and I would we put Horf at the 4. The sign a defensive rebounding center.

 

Thats a good option. If they lose DMC, just sign a decent big that can rebound. Good post.

[atlhawks1]

Agreed...Milsap loses his advantage playing at the SF position...PF is the position he needs to play, but he is not the best rebounder...Coach Bud has an interesting decision to make in Free Agency. 

 

Duh.......thats ANOTHER reason why i keep saying he may be better suited as a 3.  He is a tweener, like Joe Johnson. What gets me is the fact that the Hawks PURPOSELY went out and got players that can play multiple positions, but yet, when its mentioned as a permanent position for players, its like its something new and cannot be done.

 

“He’s a small forward,” Teague said, “in a power forward’s body.”

 

http://markbradley.blog.ajc.com/2015/01/29/i-admit-it-i-had-no-idea-the-hawks-paul-millsap-was-this-good/

Edited June 28, 2015 by atlhawks1

[Bamalawdawg]

Since we are talking about a scenario where Demarre signs elsewhere, let's just talk about it like we renounce him. Before renouncing players we are basically at the cap. At least there is less than 1 mil wiggle room. Dumping Carroll gives us $3.2 mil. Dumping Ayón's rights, Brand, and Jenkins clears $7.1 mil per the wonderful Peachtreehoops article. There's the easy way to signing a "big" free agent, sign them for about $11 mil. Everything else after that starts to sting a little.

We can renounce Antić for another $1.6 mil. Now we're closing in on $13 mil. Still not nearly enough for Gasol or Aldridge.

We trade Mike Scott to a team under the cap for a future 2nd. If you factor in a roster hold that gets us to about $15.5 mil.

Trade Mack and a 2nd to a team under the cap for the rights to a 40 old Swede. Now we are around $17.5 factoring in roaster holds. Still not enough for Gasol or Aldridge (and this assumes Sap signed a for his Bird #).

Good news, we saved like $200k on our pick. So throw that on the pile. We can dump Daye and Muscala and replace them with minimum players for another 600k total. Maybe we are closing in on $18.5 mil. It's a heck of a roster overhaul, but maybe we can get Gasol or Aldridge in at $18.5 then sign 5 minimum players.

[wolvetigers]

Duh.......thats ANOTHER reason why i keep saying he may be better suited as a 3.  He is a tweener, like Joe Johnson. What gets me is the fact that the Hawks PURPOSELY went out and got players that can play multiple positions, but yet, when its mentioned as a permanent position for players, its like its something new and cannot be done.

 

“He’s a small forward,” Teague said, “in a power forward’s body.”

 

http://markbradley.blog.ajc.com/2015/01/29/i-admit-it-i-had-no-idea-the-hawks-paul-millsap-was-this-good/

 

Again....you are making my point. Him being a SF in a PF body gives him an advantage at PF...That DOES not mean that PF body at the SF position would be just as successful. Come on Hawks fans, there are no short cuts; I could argue that Carroll is very important b/c he is more atheletic than Milsap the SF position..

 

No offense but Coach Bud is Coach of the Year and if he thougt that Milsap would be better at SF then he would of moved him there, and started another Big at the PF spot to help rebound. 

Edited June 28, 2015 by wolvetigers

[Guest]

Sap is not and will never be a full time SF.

Aging SGs move to SF, aging SF move to PF. There is no moving an aging PF to SF particularly when he hasn't ever been one.

[atlhawks1]

Again....you are making my point. Him being a SF in a PF body gives him an advantage at PF...That DOES not mean that PF body at the SF position would be just as successful. Come on Hawks fans, there are no short cuts; I could argue that Carroll is very important b/c he is more atheletic than Milsap the SF position..

 

No offense but Coach Bud is Coach of the Year and if he thougt that Milsap would be better at SF then he would of moved him there, and started another Big at the PF spot to help rebound. 

 

Hold on. We in agreement. The ONLY point im making is this: If they lose DMC, they obviously got to fill his position. At the same time, they GOT to address the rebounding and defense from the center or power forward positions.  So, HOW can that be done and have the cap room, etc. to make all that happen? One OPTION, not the ONLY option, is to sign Sap and move him to small forward. THEN, they can get a cheap big and move Horford over to the 4. Lastly, they could keep Horford at 5 and get a power forward on the cheap and slide Sap over to 3.  Its just OPTIONS the Hawks have because of the versatility of the players they have. 

 

You say Sap has more of a advantage at power forward, vs small forward. That MAY be true, but where did that get the Hawks in the rebounding department this year? In interior defense this year? So, moving Sap over to small forward isnt costing them nothing in the long run. What it does is let the Hawks address that small front line that got DEMOLISHED in the playoffs.

 

Realistically, If they sign Sap and keep him at power forward, then, OBVIOUSLY they gonna deploy him with Horford again. Where the rebounding coming from? Cleveland brought Thompson off the bench for theirs until Love got hurt, but WHO is a free agent out there, that the Hawks could sign to come off the bench and be their Thompson? Yeah, they can find somebody to come in cheap, but wouldnt you rather they get a frontline big, like Aldridge, Gasol, etc. if the lose DMC?? Gotta pay the money to be the best and all this going cheap stuff hasnt gotten the Hawks a ring in over 40 something years in Atlanta. Make a splash if you can and go after the chip because they dont wanna develop any draft picks.

Edited June 28, 2015 by atlhawks1

[Plainview1981]

This is considered ONLY if the Hawks dont sign DMC, AND go out and sign a big. Why do people think that signing Aldridge or Gasol, etc. would mean that Sap is gone? Ive said numerous times that Sap can play the 3. He HAS the ability to play out there. He plays more like a 3 than a 4 anyway, and has the size of a big 3. If they dont sign DMC and DO get a Aldridge, that would be a beast lineup.

 

Suddenly, the Hawks would go from the bottom of team rebounding, to one of the best. Sap would abuse other small forwards with his size and quickness from the 3. He could be the Hawks version of Lebron James coming from the 3 position. He has a unique skillset in that he is too quick for big power forwards, and too strong for small forwards to handle. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He missed the bucket here, but look at how he shook the Wizard bigs like a small forward would do:

 

 

 

I think you could do that if you have a stocked bench of swingman that can defend and shoot the 3.

 

I actually think Bud would take Millsap over LMA if he had to choose between the two.

 

Millsap fits Bud's scheme better... Although he is not a great one on one defender he gets steals like a guard (and even blocks a few shots) and that's very important to a scheme that aims to harass and create turnovers.