Justin Patton

[DBac]

I like Patton. He'd be my second choice behind Allen at C. 

[KB21]

50 minutes ago, DBac said:

I like Patton. He'd be my second choice behind Allen at C. 

Both of those two will be thoroughly dominated in the NBA.  I was watching the game of Baylor vs Texas earlier.  Johnathan Motley completely abused Jarrett Allen.  Motley had 32 points and 20 rebounds in that game.  But somehow, those two are definite first round picks, and Motley is a 2nd round pick. 

[Lurker]

Draymond Green is an exception to the rule, so this constant back and forth is just dumb.

Let's end it here. Most of us do NOT want Swanigan in the first, while you do for silly reasons. Drafting someone to be the next "             " is a stupid idea. Especially when it's someone that has special abilities that is unlikely that Swanigan EVER has. EVER.

And I am NOT meaning passing. I am meaning stuff like the ability to defend 1-5 and have the agility to do it well. Swanigan loses more weight, and most of his advantages on offense disappear with two snaps of the finger. He will NOT be able to do what Draymond has done on defense while keeping his offensive abilities, and BOOKMARK THIS if you wish, I will say I was wrong if I was wrong.

I would NOT be going off if you said "Draymond Green without the defense". That is why I am going off. There is no way on God's green earth that he becomes even good on defense.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Lurker

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Draymond Green is an exception to the rule, so this constant back and forth is just dumb.

Let's end it here. Most of us do NOT want Swanigan in the first, while you do for silly reasons. Drafting someone to be the next "             " is a stupid idea. Especially when it's someone that has special abilities that is unlikely that Swanigan EVER has. EVER.

And I am NOT meaning passing. I am meaning stuff like the ability to defend 1-5 and have the agility to do it well. Swanigan loses more weight, and most of his advantages on offense disappear with two snaps of the finger. He will NOT be able to do what Draymond has done on defense while keeping his offensive abilities, and BOOKMARK THIS if you wish, I will say I was wrong if I was wrong.

I would NOT be going off if you said "Draymond Green without the defense". That is why I am going off. There is no way on God's green earth that he becomes even good on defense.

That's exactly what was said about Draymond Green when he came out.  Exactly!

From NBADraft.net:

Quote

Strengths: The ultimate "Glue Guy", Green's strongest asset is his ability to contribute across the board ... He has a substantial wingspan with a strong frame, and is unafraid to bang with bigger bodies ... Good-looking shooter when his feet are set and he catches/releases in rhythm ... Can stretch the floor with NBA 3-point range ... His vision, passing and ability to facilitate out of the post make it difficult for off-ball defenders to keep their eyes on their man and the ball at the same time ... Reliable mid-range jumper ... Green is slippery with his back to the basket, with the ability to spin baseline or turn across the lane for the finish ... Terrific rebounder thanks to the combination of an aggressive motor and soft hands ... Unselfish and timely passer ... Overachiever. High basketball IQ ... Makes those around him better, possesses sense of maturity and leadership qualities ...

Weaknesses: One of those great college basketball players that doesn't excel in any one particular area ... Tweener, undersized for a physical forward yet lacks the athleticism of a wing ... Lacks explosiveness, agility, elusiveness and quickness off the bounce ... Under the rim finisher, which is troublesome when you consider his size ... Not a threat to shake his defender off the dribble ... Minimal upside ... Vulnerable defending quicker guards on the perimeter ... Could stand to drop some weight ...

Overall: The Big-Ten Player of the Year, Green has a number of likeable qualities, but not one specific skill that a team may be seeking ... He's a low-risk/low-reward pick considering his role-player potential and ability to fit in ... His ceiling dances around the mid-20s, where a playoff can use him right away to compliment its better players ...

 

From NBA.com

Quote

Strengths:
*Stat sheet stuffer
*Skilled passer
*Excellent rebounder
*Can score in the post
*Good ball handler
*Can shoot the 3
*Great understanding of the game

Weaknesses:
*Who does he defend?
*Doesn’t have great lateral quickness

NBA projection:
Green has been projected as a late first-round pick. The consensus is that Green won’t be able to guard either forward position because true small forwards will be quicker and true power forwards taller and able to post him and shoot over him. But he’s got an arsenal of skills, including passing, rebounding and the ability to knock down the 3-pointer that can make him valuable.

 

From Draft Express:

Quote

Unfortunately, Green's defensive deficiencies have become even more pronounced as a senior. At 6'7, he is too small to guard elite post players, and lacks the lateral quickness to defend perimeter players, even face-up power forwards at the NCAA level. While his effort and aggressiveness will never be questioned, it is difficult to project him as an adequate NBA defender at this time. Still, he continues to be a rebound the ball at an excellent rate, even against top competition as evidenced by his 18-rebound effort against North Carolina's NBA-caliber frontcourt. His 12.1 rebounds per-40 are a career-high, and at just 6'7, he is grabbing 25% of his team's total defensive rebounds. His soft hands and nose for the ball help him here, but his aggressiveness, in particular is on full display on the glass.When describing Green's potential at the next level, his rebounding, 3-point shooting and elite passing ability are certainly intriguing. He also brings a host of intangibles to the table, however, from his reputation as a good teammate to his consistently high IQ brand of basketball that may make his deficiencies less glaring in a spot-role. While Green certainly doesn't look the part of an NBA player, there is no doubt that he possesses a variety of skills that at the very least will put him in consideration to be drafted or earn a NBA roster spot. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Draymond-Green-5859/ ©DraftExpress

So, I've heard this all before, and I'm not saying Caleb is the next Draymond Green.  I'm saying that Caleb has many of the same traits that Draymond had when he came out of Michigan State that drew me to liking him as a prospect, and as you can see, he also has the same "deficiencies" that Draymond had coming out of Michigan State. 

I remember folks saying Paul Millsap couldn't defend when he came out of Louisiana Tech as well.

[Lurker]

And around and around we go in circles at 1000 miles an hour. 

If you don't have anything to do other than very aggressively promote an agenda, please log off and don't return. You let my point rocket over your head.

Swanigan is not maintaining his offensive advantages if he loses weight. Therefore, he's never going to be a good defender in the NBA. Again, bookmark this post. If he becomes a good defender, I will say I was wrong, but these defensive deficiencies would keep him from becoming a prominent player for Bud for at least a year and a half in a hypothetical world.

Either stop promoting your agenda or please go away. It makes forums messy to constantly have them hijacked. And remember, its not that we want guys like Giles or that barely used C at ucla, its not that.

This is my final post on this in a thread that is not on Swanigan. 

[KB21]

16 minutes ago, Lurker said:

And around and around we go in circles at 1000 miles an hour. 

If you don't have anything to do other than very aggressively promote an agenda, please log off and don't return. You let my point rocket over your head.

Swanigan is not maintaining his offensive advantages if he loses weight. Therefore, he's never going to be a good defender in the NBA. Again, bookmark this post. If he becomes a good defender, I will say I was wrong, but these defensive deficiencies would keep him from becoming a prominent player for Bud for at least a year and a half in a hypothetical world.

Either stop promoting your agenda or please go away. It makes forums messy to constantly have them hijacked. And remember, its not that we want guys like Giles or that barely used C at ucla, its not that.

This is my final post on this in a thread that is not on Swanigan. 

So, he's going to lose his ability to shoot jumpers and his touch around the basket if he loses weight?  The guy has lost 100 lbs already and has done nothing but improve.

 

 

[DBac]

43 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Both of those two will be thoroughly dominated in the NBA.  I was watching the game of Baylor vs Texas earlier.  Johnathan Motley completely abused Jarrett Allen.  Motley had 32 points and 20 rebounds in that game.  But somehow, those two are definite first round picks, and Motley is a 2nd round pick. 

It's no secret that younger prospects are more valuable. I like Jarrett Allen. He has the size, length, and athleticism that I look for. Flashed a nice midrange jumper and finishes well around the basket. Can develop into a formidable rim protector too once he adds strength like Gobert did. Lightbulb really came on for him near the end of the season. 

[KB21]

Just now, DBac said:

It's no secret that younger prospects are more valuable. I like Jarrett Allen. He has the size, length, and athleticism that I look for. Flashed a nice midrange jumper and finishes well around the basket. Can develop into a formidable rim protector too once he adds strength like Gobert did. Lightbulb really came on for him near the end of the season. 

And therein lies the problem with the draft.  Youth is valued over production.  This is why guys like Marcus Kidd Gilchrist goes #2 overall while Draymond Green goes in the 2nd round.   This is also why teams who pick in the lottery stay in the lottery more often than not and why tanking is a piss poor strategy. 

[DBac]

17 minutes ago, KB21 said:

And therein lies the problem with the draft.  Youth is valued over production.  This is why guys like Marcus Kidd Gilchrist goes #2 overall while Draymond Green goes in the 2nd round.   This is also why teams who pick in the lottery stay in the lottery more often than not and why tanking is a piss poor strategy. 

But your boy Swanigan isn't exactly old. He only just turned 20. The reason he is so low is because of his flaws that you keep ignoring. 

[KB21]

42 minutes ago, DBac said:

But your boy Swanigan isn't exactly old. He only just turned 20. The reason he is so low is because of his flaws that you keep ignoring. 

What flaws am I ignoring, and tell me exactly why whatever perceived flaw he has cannot be overcome but the flaws of these one and done, "exciting", high upside prospects can be overcome?

Tell me exactly why a Jarrett Allen/Justin Patton/Harry Giles/Ike Anigbogu will be stars in the NBA and why Caleb Swanigan will not?

[Thomas]

Don't think any of those will be stars but will contribute to the ten man rotation wherever they land. Point being you end up with more if you take Caleb between 28 and 31 whether you take another big or not. Three pointers from our SG position ranks as a rather desperate need for us as well. The other guy you take will be a stronger draft pick or project or whatever label no matter what position. Its a sounder strategy am thinking we can afford. Still right now am in on Justin or Bam with the first one. Gazelle vs defensive presence.  

[DBac]

11 minutes ago, KB21 said:

What flaws am I ignoring, and tell me exactly why whatever perceived flaw he has cannot be overcome but the flaws of these one and done, "exciting", high upside prospects can be overcome?

Tell me exactly why a Jarrett Allen/Justin Patton/Harry Giles/Ike Anigbogu will be stars in the NBA and why Caleb Swanigan will not?

He's bad for half the game. Swanigan is too big and slow, he'll get torched on defense with the way the NBA is going. Enes Kanter is elite in the post and rebounding and he still got ran off the court by Houston as a bench player because of he was such a liability on defense. Zach Randolph is a bench player in favor of the more athletic modern big Jamychal Green. The other day, I watched Kelly Olynyk blow by the Wizards big contract bigs and also drain 3s because they couldn't close out in time. Al Horford had his way as well. And it's not like he makes up for that by being a rim protector. He's never gonna make his money on defense, but just to become adequate he threatens his offensive game. 

All of those guys you mentioned are more likely to be future starters than Swanigan, none of them are stars unless Harry Giles recovers. Allen and Ike are elite rim protecting prospects, Giles has amazing defensive instincts, Patton can be a nice help defender ala Whiteside. With the exception of maybe Ike, they all have the footspeed and length to challenge shots on the perimeter too. The only big that sucks on defense that I'm partial to is Markkanen because he's an elite shooter with a near unblockable jumper. That may be valuable enough to build around, but it's more likely that he turns into Ryan Anderson. But yeah I'm trying to find a starter of the future, I don't think that's Swanigan. I'm rooting for the guy because his story is incredible but the way the NBA has turned will not be kind to his game. 

[NBASupes]

Green always had good lateral quickness for his size.