Justin Patton

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Why would I draft a guy who's basically a rim runner over a guy who I can feed the ball to in the low post, play him in the high post, and have him be the pick and pop man on a pick and roll?

What are you even talking about? 

[KB21]

I'm talking about this nonsense of taking Patton over Swanigan. 

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Why would I draft a guy who's basically a rim runner over a guy who I can feed the ball to in the low post, play him in the high post, and have him be the pick and pop man on a pick and roll?

Because you probably can get Swanigan at 31 or if needed move up a little with our assets. So my question is why take him at 19 if you can get him later.

[NBASupes]

45 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I'm talking about this nonsense of taking Patton over Swanigan. 

Not sure what you see in Celeb. He has the makeup of a NBA role player. His style of game reminded me of Sean May

[KB21]

14 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Because you probably can get Swanigan at 31 or if needed move up a little with our assets. So my question is why take him at 19 if you can get him later.

Because that's where I value him.  If I had the 12th pick, I'd take him at 12.  Where he is projected in these mock drafts has no bearing on where I would value the player and his skills. 

As for what I see in him, he's the best inside/outside big in this draft, and it really isn't close.  John Collins is the only one that is close to him relative to his ability to play with his back to the basket and score inside, but Collins doesn't have Swanigan's range on his jumper at this time. 

Really, the only thing Swanigan doesn't have that these so called high upside players have is verticality, but he has several things those guys don't: NBA Body, back to the basket game, perimeter shooting ability, great passer, dominant rebounding, solid defense....etc.

That doesn't even go into the kid's work ethic, which he has shown a tremendous amount of with losing over 100 lbs since his high school days.  If he develops his mid post game the way Paul Millsap did, the sky is the limit for this kid.

I'll go ahead and say it.  Caleb Swanigan will be the best big man drafted in this draft.

Give me Caleb Swanigan at 19 and Josh Hart at 31, and the Hawks make out like bandits.

[Thomas]

Sounds like we are talking about the history of Udonis Haslem's rise with probably a better jumper in the NBA here which is a pretty good thing but still think we get more for our dollar swapping where we take him. But either way if he is a Hawk he'll get plenty of minutes pretty soon because he is physical and if any of Dwight, Sap and Ersan are here then when they go to the bench it would be good to still have someone who can bang. Bam/Patton and Swanigan combo in this draft is very possible.

[h4wkfan]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Why would I draft a guy who's basically a rim runner over a guy who I can feed the ball to in the low post, play him in the high post, and have him be the pick and pop man on a pick and roll?

I agree. I think Patton is the flavor of the month. Rebounding translates. He is a 7 footer that didn't impress with rebounding. He will be serviceable at best. I'll pass on Patton unless it's at 31 (bigger bust is going to be that Evans guy out of Texas). With that said. I'm still taking him over swanigan if that is who you are still pushing. 

Motley all day over either. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

agree. I think Patton is the flavor of the month

I'll take a scoop of vanilla on a sugar cone please.

[hawkman]

8 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

I agree. I think Patton is the flavor of the month. Rebounding translates. He is a 7 footer that didn't impress with rebounding. He will be serviceable at best. I'll pass on Patton unless it's at 31 (bigger bust is going to be that Evans guy out of Texas). With that said. I'm still taking him over swanigan if that is who you are still pushing. 

Motley all day over either. 

I like Motley but the Hawks won't have to reach to get him. He will be available after 19 and maybe in the 2nd Round. He's one of my dark horse picks. Another is Dwayne Bacon. Both slated to go in the late 1st/early 2nd Round, but I think both of those guys are players that can contribute if Bud gives them a chance. I also like Sindarius Thornwell but he will be available in the mid to late 2nd Round. I'm surprised his stock is so low due to being a Senior. The guy's a player. He's not an explosive athlete but he kind of reminds me of Brandon Roy in that he has a complete game. I think all of these guys are worth trading back into the  late 1st and 2nd Rounds.

[NBASupes]

52 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Because that's where I value him.  If I had the 12th pick, I'd take him at 12.  Where he is projected in these mock drafts has no bearing on where I would value the player and his skills. 

As for what I see in him, he's the best inside/outside big in this draft, and it really isn't close.  John Collins is the only one that is close to him relative to his ability to play with his back to the basket and score inside, but Collins doesn't have Swanigan's range on his jumper at this time. 

Really, the only thing Swanigan doesn't have that these so called high upside players have is verticality, but he has several things those guys don't: NBA Body, back to the basket game, perimeter shooting ability, great passer, dominant rebounding, solid defense....etc.

That doesn't even go into the kid's work ethic, which he has shown a tremendous amount of with losing over 100 lbs since his high school days.  If he develops his mid post game the way Paul Millsap did, the sky is the limit for this kid.

I'll go ahead and say it.  Caleb Swanigan will be the best big man drafted in this draft.

Give me Caleb Swanigan at 19 and Josh Hart at 31, and the Hawks make out like bandits.

You will be disappointed. 

[Guest]

Hey @NBASupes are you doing a squawk podcast for us with @romebee regarding the draft anytime soon? I enjoyed last year's episodes. Good stuff.

[KB21]

36 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You will be disappointed. 

No.  Those who want to draft these one and done projects will be disappointed long term.  Swanigan will be a stud along the lines of Green and Millsap.

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

No.  Those who want to draft these one and done projects will be disappointed long term.  Swanigan will be a stud along the lines of Green and Millsap.

You have Swanigan massively overrated. Massively.

He is Nikola Jokic lite off of the bench at best. Period. End of the story. And that's if he is able to learn competent defense.

[KB21]

14 minutes ago, Lurker said:

You have Swanigan massively overrated. Massively.

He is Nikola Jokic lite off of the bench at best. Period. End of the story. And that's if he is able to learn competent defense.

Sorry, but that's not the case.

 

The players who are massively overrated are these one and done players who don't have the physical strength nor the mental strength to compete in the NBA yet, and they are losing out on quality developmental time by going pro too soon.  The players who are massively overrated are the ones who are rated high because they can run and jump out of the gym even if they don't have a lick of basketball skills, are poor rebounders, poor shooters....etc. 

Name me one other big that is more dominant inside and outside than Caleb Swanigan is?  There isn't one.  But you want to put a cap on his potential because he isn't the run and jump athlete that a guy like Harry Giles is even though he is a far better player.

[Lurker]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Sorry, but that's not the case.

 

The players who are massively overrated are these one and done players who don't have the physical strength nor the mental strength to compete in the NBA yet, and they are losing out on quality developmental time by going pro too soon.  The players who are massively overrated are the ones who are rated high because they can run and jump out of the gym even if they don't have a lick of basketball skills, are poor rebounders, poor shooters....etc. 

Name me one other big that is more dominant inside and outside than Caleb Swanigan is?  There isn't one.  But you want to put a cap on his potential because he isn't the run and jump athlete that a guy like Harry Giles is even though he is a far better player.

I don't give a flip about Harry Giles. I already said I'm staying a million miles away from him. Guys like Draymond Green are the exception, not the rule.

[Lurker]

Just because someone is extremely strongly rejecting your idea on a player, doesn't mean they want so and so and so and so. I have already said several times that I do not want Harry Giles and his medical record. That isn't a good idea and the team that takes him is likely going to have the next Greg Oden.

What also isn't a good idea is just taking guys that can "really play" with all of your picks unless you believe that you have a potential tier 1 star on your team, and this team doesn't. Period, end of the story. If it just goes safe, its going to stay a very middling team. Now do I mean take guys that are a bit risky with all of my picks? No. I have said that I would be really happy to take guys like Thornwell, Hart, Derrick White, Motley, etc at 31. But I'm not taking any of those players in the first. I highlighted a worry I had actually with Thornwell in another thread (playing small might have helped him with his offense...).

Here's a reality, the guy that you are extremely strongly pushing is very unlikely to play for Bud for at least one season too. Since he can't play PNR defense, he's going to be chilling on the bench and in the G league himself like all of those players that you are crying about. And if he never figures out PNR defense, he's likely to stay a 10-12th player in this hypothetical world.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Lurker

[Guest]

It pains me to say, @Lurker actually has a decent perspective on this.

Taking guys based solely on production is as detrimental as taking guys solely on athletic potential.

SAS could get away with this when they had 3 HOFers locked into their starting lineup.  We cannot simply because, as has been discussed ad nauseum, we are still looking for our star.    "College production" guys exacerbate the fact that we lack a star.  Forces us to trend towards good/not-great.

We have no choice, drafting where we do, but to reach for guys who have star potential which means they could be light on college-level production.

And athleticism is not something that should be ignored.  I defy you to find a team that wins big that isn't bolstered by a high level of athleticism among their main guys.  SAS is not an exception there so, no, they're not on that list.

[Lurker]

And that does not mean taking guys like Harry Giles or Ike Anigbogu. I don't want either of them.

[KB21]

24 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Just because someone is extremely strongly rejecting your idea on a player, doesn't mean they want so and so and so and so. I have already said several times that I do not want Harry Giles and his medical record. That isn't a good idea and the team that takes him is likely going to have the next Greg Oden.

What also isn't a good idea is just taking guys that can "really play" with all of your picks unless you believe that you have a potential tier 1 star on your team, and this team doesn't. Period, end of the story. If it just goes safe, its going to stay a very middling team. Now do I mean take guys that are a bit risky with all of my picks? No. I have said that I would be really happy to take guys like Thornwell, Hart, Derrick White, Motley, etc at 31. But I'm not taking any of those players in the first. I highlighted a worry I had actually with Thornwell in another thread (playing small might have helped him with his offense...).

Here's a reality, the guy that you are extremely strongly pushing is very unlikely to play for Bud for at least one season too. Since he can't play PNR defense, he's going to be chilling on the bench and in the G league himself like all of those players that you are crying about. And if he never figures out PNR defense, he's likely to stay a 10-12th player in this hypothetical world.

It's the premise behind the reasoning for the rejection of the player and my thoughts on the player.  Go, take a look at the so called high upside one and done players who have been drafted since 2010.  How many of them have become difference making superstars in the NBA?  Look at Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, DeAngelo Russell, Andre Wiggins, Brandon Ingram, Jahil Okafor.....etc, these guys have made little to no impact on the success of their teams other than making those teams worse.  At the same time, you have polished, experienced players like Rodney Hood and Gary Harris who are significantly outplaying the "higher upside" players.  This is no longer the exception. 

[hawkman]

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

It's the premise behind the reasoning for the rejection of the player and my thoughts on the player.  Go, take a look at the so called high upside one and done players who have been drafted since 2010.  How many of them have become difference making superstars in the NBA?  Look at Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, DeAngelo Russell, Andre Wiggins, Brandon Ingram, Jahil Okafor.....etc, these guys have made little to no impact on the success of their teams other than making those teams worse.  At the same time, you have polished, experienced players like Rodney Hood and Gary Harris who are significantly outplaying the "higher upside" players.  This is no longer the exception. 

Actually, the Bucks really could have used him during the Playoffs. He was playing great before his injury. At this point, he may be damaged goods though.