Going to the dark side

[Gray Mule]

Hawks have a new GM.  What will he do?  That s the real question that

all of us have. 
We know, in our heart, changes in the roster will happen.  What type of

team will he build?  Without a doubt, some of today's players will be gone.

We all wonder which of the other players who are still under contract will

be offered in a trade and who we will target?

We all agree, we must do something.  What we have right now is not working.

Do we try to sign over the hill players who are hanging on, knowing how to

do but unable to because age has caught up with them?  Or, do we go with

youth who are willing and able to preform but are not capable of doing so?

So many questions.  And, we do not yet know the answers, but we're willing to

listen to any new, exciting thoughts anyone is willing to share !!

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Wtfffff...ummm...nzinga..

 

ps...no Tmac or Hill I'm talking that magical .500 season they had with a roster full of journeymen...yes Ben Wallace but younger and unproven.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2000.html

 

 

So you're basically rooting for a return to the Sura-era Hawks.  Yuk.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

So you're basically rooting for a return to the Sura-era Hawks.  Yuk.

Wtf are you talking about. I tell you I want us to be a scrappy gap stop team like the 99-2000 Magic, and you talk about Tmac and grant hill (WRONG YEARS BUDDY) and now you talking about Sura teams? 

 

I never said anything about that. You trying to set me up lol. 

 

 

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Wtfffff...ummm...nzinga..

 

ps...no Tmac or Hill I'm talking that magical .500 season they had with a roster full of journeymen...yes Ben Wallace but younger and unproven.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2000.html

 

 

I knew that is what you were talking about, Spud.  That was Rivers' best coaching job, IMO.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I knew that is what you were talking about, Spud.  That was Rivers' best coaching job, IMO.

Ya...I just think Bud can do a similar job as Doc did that year.

 

I really enjoyed Bud's first year with us as well. It felt like we were an underdog team the whole year. 2013-14....we finished 38-44 but we were scrappy and played hard and smart. If we go retool, I wouldn't mind a 2013-14 type Hawks team for us in 2017-18.

[High5]

I understand the aversion to voluntarily taking a step back and I understand the temptation to believe in the internal improvement that can be made, but that line of thinking just gets us another handful of disappointing finishes until we're at this crossroads again. At some point you have to bite the bullet if you want to actually be a contender one day. We've been synonymous with mediocrity for far too long. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, High5 said:

I understand the aversion to voluntarily taking a step back and I understand the temptation to believe in the internal improvement that can be made, but that line of thinking just gets us another handful of disappointing finishes until we're at this crossroads again. At some point you have to bite the bullet if you want to actually be a contender one day. We've been synonymous with mediocrity for far too long. 

No I agree with that sentiment but I honestly think we can retool in 3 years without going full stealth tank.

 

I love Sap but it might be time to let him go. This is hard for me to say as Millsap has become a top 10 Hawk of all time for me. The guy is just a pro. 

[Gray Mule]

Hawks, or any team in the NBA, in my opinion, must be able to do

three things well on offense and play good defense.

1- The NBA has evolved into a three point shooting league.  All teams,

desiring to win, must be very good three point shooters.

2- An inside game is also essential, being able to rebound and put back

and drive and get those "and one" opportunities.

3- As everyone knows, I believe that being able to hit a great % of our

free throws is essential to having a winning team.

Give me a team capable of doing all this and I will go with it !

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

1- The NBA has evolved into a three point shooting league.  All teams,

Yes sir!

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

3- As everyone knows, I believe that being able to hit a great % of our

You love your free throws Gramps and will good reason. I agree with both the theee point shooting and charity stripe.

 

I will also add the ability to defend the three pointer. We need some perimeter defense for sure.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Hawks, or any team in the NBA, in my opinion, must be able to do

three things well on offense and play good defense.

1- The NBA has evolved into a three point shooting league.  All teams,

desiring to win, must be very good three point shooters.

2- An inside game is also essential, being able to rebound and put back

and drive and get those "and one" opportunities.

3- As everyone knows, I believe that being able to hit a great % of our

free throws is essential to having a winning team.

Give me a team capable of doing all this and I will go with it !

Agree with GM on all counts.  It's too bad he selected @Spud2Nique as his adoptive grandson over me.

Thas what I'm sayin', Grail Knight dude.

Anyways, I think we should think 'shooting' in every decision we make right now.  In the draft .. shooting.

Free agency ... shooting

Then fill in the gaps with min-dudes to do the dirty work.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Anyways, I think we should think 'shooting' in every decision we make right now.  In the draft .. shooting.

But no John Jenkins please ...:-|

[ATLSmith]

Well, nice knowing you @Spud2Nique

If it does come down to a rebuild...

Hold your horses there, Finn.  This is still hypothetical.

As I was saying, if the Hawks do rebuild, then I hope they are able to sign Sap or another marquee free agent so they can at least get something in return via a future trade.  The other benefit is having veteran leadership on the team. It would be like having our very own verson of Han Solo guiding our young Luke Skywalkers.

Dwight can play the part of the always cuddly Chewbacca.

And while this is going on we can all pretend that everything is just peaches.

[KB21]

1 hour ago, High5 said:

I understand the aversion to voluntarily taking a step back and I understand the temptation to believe in the internal improvement that can be made, but that line of thinking just gets us another handful of disappointing finishes until we're at this crossroads again. At some point you have to bite the bullet if you want to actually be a contender one day. We've been synonymous with mediocrity for far too long. 

See, there is just no data that supports this opinion that if you are a 45 win team or so that you are mediocre and have no chance of ever winning a championship.  If you don't want to win a championship and want to increase the odds of not winning one, then you bottom out and rebuild around younger players.

See, the problem with the rebuild around youth philosophy is that you think you are going to bottom out for a year, draft a superstar, and then be back where you were in 2-3 years only with a superstar now.  In reality, it doesn't quite work that way.  In reality, the guy you take in the lottery is going to take 3-4 years to mature before he gets to his peak, and by that time, he's no longer a value with the contract he likely demands in free agency.  The other problem with this is that not only do you have to be lucky enough to get a good player in the lottery, but you have to do it again, and then again. 

You are legitimately looking at a 5-6 year window to just get back to the level the team is currently at if you decide to rebuild around youth. 

[AHF]

3pt Shooting:  If you look at the numbers, the top 3 teams in 3pt% this season are the Western Conference Finalist Spurs, the Eastern Conference Champ Cavs and the Western Conference Champ Warriors.  3 of the conference finalists are also in the top 5 of the list of most 3pt shots attempted (GS, Cle and Boston).  

3pt Defense: Your top teams defensively against the 3 as measured by opponent 3pt% include Warriors (#1), Celtics (#2), and Spurs (#6).  (Those same 3 conference finalist teams are also top 10 in fewest 3pters allowed). 

Rebounding:  Nobody in the conference finals is a top 5 rebounding team.  The Warriors are the only top 10 team (#7) in total rebounds while both the Cavs and Warriors are in the top 10 for defensive rebounds. None of the conference finalists is in the top 10 for offensive rebounding (they range #16-22)

Free Throws:  Nobody in the conference finals is a top 10 free throw team in free throw attempts.  In terms of %, the Spurs are #7 and the Warriors are #10 in FT%.

 

If this season is representative of some type of correlation, these numbers would suggest that you had better be elite shooting your 3's and better be able to defend against them if you want to contend above and beyond everything else.  

[Guest]

Good thread @Spud2Nique.

What's going on with you - this is your second good thread in like 'ever'.

Like @kg01 pointed out getting rid of Baze and Dwight will require giving away the picks you want Schlenk to use as part of the rebuild.  We aren't getting quality assets for them.

And there is a difference between rebuilding and a straight up tank job.

[Guest]

Disagree @JayBirdHawk, only thing I learned from this thread is @ATLSmith is my sister from another mother.

Oh and I also learned there's a @JayHAWK registered here too.  Who tha heck is that?  Probably JBurd setting up an alter-ego for later.

Word to the wise, if you see @DowntonKG, that'll be my alter.

[marco102]

1 hour ago, Spud2Nique said:

You love your free throws Gramps and will good reason. I agree with both the theee point shooting and charity stripe.

 

I will also add the ability to defend the three pointer. We need some perimeter defense for sure.

In the playoffs, the Hawks perimeter D was much better than the regular season.  

Pick n roll defense was nonexistent. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by marco102

[ATLSmith]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Disagree @JayBirdHawk, only thing I learned from this thread is @ATLSmith is my sister from another mother.

Oh and I also learned there's a @JayHAWK registered here too.  Who tha heck is that?  Probably JBurd setting up an alter-ego for later.

Word to the wise, if you see @DowntonKG, that'll be my alter.

 Awww, that's so....  wait.  What?

[High5]

17 minutes ago, KB21 said:

See, there is just no data that supports this opinion that if you are a 45 win team or so that you are mediocre and have no chance of ever winning a championship.  If you don't want to win a championship and want to increase the odds of not winning one, then you bottom out and rebuild around younger players.

See, the problem with the rebuild around youth philosophy is that you think you are going to bottom out for a year, draft a superstar, and then be back where you were in 2-3 years only with a superstar now.  In reality, it doesn't quite work that way.  In reality, the guy you take in the lottery is going to take 3-4 years to mature before he gets to his peak, and by that time, he's no longer a value with the contract he likely demands in free agency.  The other problem with this is that not only do you have to be lucky enough to get a good player in the lottery, but you have to do it again, and then again. 

You are legitimately looking at a 5-6 year window to just get back to the level the team is currently at if you decide to rebuild around youth. 

There are several decades of data that support that opinion. Look at every champion and see how many got there without drafting a Hall of Famer in the top 10. I'm not saying a full tank is the answer, but stubbornly clinging to this current squad doesn't do anything for us now or in the future.