ATL/LAL/POR/CHI Benchbuster Trade

[nathan2331]

Proposed trade:

ATL sends:

Malcolm Delaney

Luke Babbitt

Marco Belinelli

Miles Plumlee (This should be good...)

 

ATL receives:

Jordan Clarkson

Brandon Ingram

Meyers Leonard

 

LAL sends:

Brandon Ingram

Julius Randle

Jordan Clarkson

 

LAL recieves:

Malcolm Delaney

Luke Babbitt

2018 Rockets Pick

 

POR trades:

Meyers Leonard

 

POR receives:

Marco Belinelli

 

CHI receives:

Miles Plumlee

POR lottery protected 1st

 

Why Atlanta does it:

We essentially swap Plumlee's and Leonard's deals. Maybe Bud can work with Leonard to at least get him to contribute more within the game. He is producing more in limited game time this season and a change of scenery might help him. From the work he put in this summer, I really think he's turned a corner. He's better than Plumlee at least. Portland does the trade to get out of his contract before the luxury tax kills them. Belinelli can also help them off the bench. 

LA does it as a salary dump. The players could be swapped around, and I'd even add add a future pick to get it done. I'm not the biggest fan of Ingram, but LA seems to believe they can land two top free agents, so this trade makes that a possibility for them this off-season. Clarkson doesn't have that much value around the league so they will have to add something with him. Ingram pushes Prince at SF and could possibly surpass him in the future. This trade adds talent to where this becomes a 1 year rebuild in my opinion.

Chicago does this for the extra first. I'd even give them a second or Ilyasova or something just to get Plumlee out of Atlanta.

Depth Chart would look like

Schröder/Clarkson/Taylor

Bazemore/Dorsey/Bembry

Prince/Ingram

Ilyasova/Collins/Cavanaugh

Dedmon/Leonard/Muscala

 

What do you say?

 

[AHF]

Looks like a very high probability of us missing the top 5 in the draft and the Celtics getting in the top 5.  Win for us on talent but a loss for us on team building.

Also suspect LA could get more for including Ingram.

[nathan2331]

 

 

Looks like a very high probability of us missing the top 5 in the draft and the Celtics getting in the top 5.  Win for us on talent but a loss for us on team building.

Also suspect LA could get more for including Ingram.

 

The Celtics owning that Lakers pick 2-5 is frustrating, but if they're willing to have a fire sale and possibly include Ingram in a deal, I'll take it no questions asked. It's an upgrade on talent, but I think Bud with his questionable rotations could hopefully depress the team's output.

 

Turning Plumlee into Leonard is a big deal for me, I think Leonard is player who has the potential to do a lot better on a different team that utilizes him more. If the Lakers would trade the players for straight up cap space at the end of the season I'd take it, but I think they'll try to do a deal by the deadline.

[nathan2331]

Also want to mention, the Lakers traded Mozgov and Russell last year for Lopez and the #27 pick. This time I think they'll be more desperate to clear space in order to sign two max guys. I thought the Russell trade was bad value for them, but I'd even offer a protected pick in 2021 or some future seconds to get it done. The East is just so bad, I can't see us being a lottery team next year, regardless of what I want us to do.

[nathan2331]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ydh3frbh

 

I amended the trade to make it a bit more realistic.

 

The Lakers would want to dump Deng's salary if they're trading Ingram, and the Bulls need to lose more games. The Bulls would likely want first for taking on that much unproductive salary, so they'd hypothetically get a first from Portland and a future first from us.

[AHF]

22 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

The Celtics owning that Lakers pick 2-5 is frustrating, but if they're willing to have a fire sale and possibly include Ingram in a deal, I'll take it no questions asked. It's an upgrade on talent, but I think Bud with his questionable rotations could hopefully depress the team's output.

 

Turning Plumlee into Leonard is a big deal for me, I think Leonard is player who has the potential to do a lot better on a different team that utilizes him more. If the Lakers would trade the players for straight up cap space at the end of the season I'd take it, but I think they'll try to do a deal by the deadline.

I think taking that talent on will cost us talent in the draft.  I'm prioritizing the draft.

[nathan2331]

I think taking that talent on will cost us talent in the draft.  I'm prioritizing the draft.

It might be logically inconsistent to suggest the players we acquire will contribute to wins in the future, and they won't stop the tank from happening, but isn't that a risk worth taking.

 

I didn't rate Ingram that highly when he got drafted, but he is a potential star and might end up better than the guy we draft when it's all said and done. Leonard is a much better fit for the Hawks than Plumlee, but he's not going to change any games on his own. Clarkson as well isn't a game changer on his own and could very well shoot us out of games if we let him. Simply put, it's the best return we can get for our expirings and it's better than a bunch of seconds. I think these guys can grow with the Hawks, but they aren't winning games in their current situations. Ingram & Clarkson have enough holes in their games, they can still help us lose games this season.

 

 

If we're a playoff team next season, then we'll be out the lottery for good more or less for the next few years. If the Lakers are selling we should be buying.

[NBASupes]

You got a thing for Clarkson. That said, Ingram is far to rich for this deal. I think him and Zo are two players they want to use to get LeBron and PG13 to come to LA. 

[nathan2331]

You got a thing for Clarkson. That said, Ingram is far to rich for this deal. I think him and Zo are two players they want to use to get LeBron and PG13 to come to LA. 

Dude's a 6MOTY candidate. He's got good size and I like his ability to create for himself and actually play PG more than other combo guards. I think he's been slept on. But if the Lakers managed to move Deng I think they'd be willing to give up Ingram to do it.

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You got a thing for Clarkson. That said, Ingram is far to rich for this deal. I think him and Zo are two players they want to use to get LeBron and PG13 to come to LA. 

 

Dude's a 6MOTY candidate. He's got good size and I like his ability to create for himself and actually play PG more than other combo guards. I think he's been slept on. But if the Lakers managed to move Deng I think they'd be willing to give up Ingram to do it.

Possibly but he doesn't give you any reason to think he would fit in a system. He's a non system type of player. Those tend to struggle in a system, especially one as responsibility based as Atlanta.

[AHF]

Clarkson is a really, really poor man's Lou Williams.  He does one thing (score) and is very mediocre at that.  Lou is so much better it isn't even funny.

[nathan2331]

Clarkson is a really, really poor man's Lou Williams.  He does one thing (score) and is very mediocre at that.  Lou is so much better it isn't even funny.

You're selling Clarkson short a little bit. Playing for the Lakers, all they've ever asked him to do is shoot. He's one of the best finishers at the rim in the NBA, his game on offense should be predicated on that, but he has free reign to jack up whatever he wants. On the Hawks maybe he could improve his jump shooting from where it currently is. All I know is that he is a good bench scorer right now, and would be a better player than Delaney moving forward.

 

I'm not discounting his non-existent defense, or his shoot first mentality but we've never seen him outside the Lakers to say he isn't capable of adapting.

[AHF]

He takes 70% of his shots at the rim and his ts% still reeks of total mediocrity.  How much higher do you think he can push that?

[nathan2331]

He takes 70% of his shots at the rim and his ts% still reeks of total mediocrity.  How much higher do you think he can push that?

What are you looking at? He only takes 27% of his shots at the rim (0-3 feet). If he changes his shot selection on mid-range shots or improves as a shooter, then I'd expect his percentages to go up a lot. as we've seen with Schröder that's not a guarantee to happen, but Schröder can still win basketball games.

[AHF]

10 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

On 1/17/2018 at 7:09 AM, AHF said:

He takes 70% of his shots at the rim and his ts% still reeks of total mediocrity.  How much higher do you think he can push that?

 

What are you looking at? He only takes 27% of his shots at the rim (0-3 feet). If he changes his shot selection on mid-range shots or improves as a shooter, then I'd expect his percentages to go up a lot. as we've seen with Schröder that's not a guarantee to happen, but Schröder can still win basketball games.

I am looking at a typo.  My bad.  He makes almost 70% of his shots at the rim (>64% this year to be precise).  You are right that he has to improve as a shooter to get better because while his midrange game sucks he also isn't very good from anywhere else (other than close to the rim).  THJr blows him out of the water for scoring efficiency.  Clarkson is a very poor man's Lou Williams and isn't even on the map for 6th man consideration.

Lou Williams 2017-18 .608 TS%

Marco Belinelli 2017-18 .566% TS%

THJr 2017-18 .544% TS%

Kent Bazemore 2017-18 .541% TS%

Malcom Delaney 2017-18 .520% TS%

Jordan Clarkson 2017-18   .518% TS%

 

[nathan2331]

 

 

I am looking at a typo.  My bad.  He makes almost 70% of his shots at the rim (>64% this year to be precise).  You are right that he has to improve as a shooter to get better because while his midrange game sucks he also isn't very good from anywhere else (other than close to the rim).  THJr blows him out of the water for scoring efficiency.  Clarkson is a very poor man's Lou Williams and isn't even on the map for 6th man consideration.

Lou Williams 2017-18 .608 TS%

Marco Belinelli 2017-18 .566% TS%

THJr 2017-18 .544% TS%

Kent Bazemore 2017-18 .541% TS%

Malcom Delaney 2017-18 .520% TS%

Jordan Clarkson 2017-18   .518% TS%

 

 

Dennis is at .519% TS% which I'd consider passable given the circumstances. Clarkson isn't a consistent enough shooter to justify all the shots he takes, but he plays in a very bad offensive team. I believe if they aren't the worst, the Lakers are bottom-five in offensive efficiency.

 

Obviously you can't project things that haven't happened and declare them reality, but I think there's a few Lakers players that'd look better outside that team. I'm not saying Clarkson is the finished product or a future star no one has noticed, but I think we can improve his game to where he outperforms his contact by the end of it.

[nathan2331]

And to be clear, I'm not refuting you're claim that he's a poor man's Lou Williams because you're not wrong, but Williams has a jumpshot Clarkson lacks. If Clarkson became a good shooter on the Hawks, obviously his efficiency would go up. He can create shots no problem. That is a skill lacking in this roster.

[AHF]

32 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

And to be clear, I'm not refuting you're claim that he's a poor man's Lou Williams because you're not wrong, but Williams has a jumpshot Clarkson lacks. If Clarkson became a good shooter on the Hawks, obviously his efficiency would go up. He can create shots no problem. That is a skill lacking in this roster.

It is a lose/lose for me.  If you are right and he is ready to blossom in a different environment then causing us to win games this year is an absolute mistake.  If you are wrong and he just isn't that good then there is no reason to trade for him.

I don't disagree with the notion that he could improve in the future or that he would likely look better in a more disciplined environment than the Lakers.  I just don't want to be in the position of adding veteran talent right now and don't think he is good enough to trump the goal of tanking right now.

[nathan2331]

It is a lose/lose for me.  If you are right and he is ready to blossom in a different environment then causing us to win games this year is an absolute mistake.  If you are wrong and he just isn't that good then there is no reason to trade for him.

I don't disagree with the notion that he could improve in the future or that he would likely look better in a more disciplined environment than the Lakers.  I just don't want to be in the position of adding veteran talent right now and don't think he is good enough to trump the goal of tanking right now.

That's a fair take because getting that pick #1 is our biggest priority. I'm not sure how bad losing Ilyasova and Dedmon would be, but I'd imagine it be detrimental to both our offense and defense, which is what we need right now regardless of the return.