Premium Member Peoriabird Posted March 30, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 @KB21 please acknowledge that you know the difference between a non playoff team and a tanking team i.e. Denver and The Clippers aren't tanking this season...They are just non playoff teams and technically non playoff teams make our point not yours! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, deester11 said: The last paragraph is at least an action plan. Maybe they would have been good acquisitions, but I still don't think they move the needle enough. We had playoff runs for 10 years and the hawk's are still searching for the missing ingredients...albeit a superstar. I don't see one walking through the hawk's front offices begging for a chance to play in Atlanta. So with that said, the hawk's have assets and they are lottery tickets (draft picks). I prefer to scratch and win for a change. To KB's point, what if you're the San Antonio Spurs, and you know the situation with Kawhi Leonard is beyond repair. You're seeking to deal him for the best offer possible. As of right now, the Hawks can't even be a player in a deal for Kawhi, because they don't have enough player capital to make the deal. They have the DRAFT capital, but not necessarily player capital. If the 2019 1st round pick ( top 3 protected ) was part of the piece to get Kawhi, how do the Hawks do it with the current squad that they have? Taurean Prince would have to be part of this deal along with the pick. But we need to deal a major salary as well. Kawhi makes 20.1 mill next season. So what could the Hawks offer? 2019 pick + Prince + Schröder ( 15.5 mill + 3 more years ) 2019 pick + Prince + Bazemore ( 18.1 mill next year, then 19.3 mill opt out year ) Would the Spurs go for that? Because outside of giving them 2 - 3 1st round picks, that's all we have. They would have to place high value on the guys that we're giving them. What Schlenk is banking on ( and he pretty much said this in one of his interviews ), was to be in position to strike when a team is financially unable to re-sign a good player. He's probably talking about one of his former players ( Klay Thompson or Draymond Green ), but the example he used was the James Harden situation between OKC and Houston. OKC agreed with a trade, and Houston got its superstar. So if that's his plan, he's going to rely more on having the cap space to throw money at a player, and see if he accepts it. But we all know the problem with this strategy. If the player would take less money to play with a winner . . . we're back to square 1. It DID work for us once though . . . . with the Joe Johnson trade. Maybe it didn't work like everyone wanted, especially by giving up two 1st round picks. But it did work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davis171 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, KB21 said: ....and somehow, being on the lottery treadmill is better? This will be Phoenix's 8th year on the lottery treadmill. This will be Orlando's 6th year on the lottery treadmill. This will be Sacramento's 12th year on the lottery treadmill. This is Brooklyn's 3rd year on the lottery treadmill (sans picks). This is New York's 5th year on the lottery treadmill. This will be the LA Laker's 5th year on the lottery treadmill (sans pick). Charlotte has been on the treadmill for 6 of the past 8 years. Detroit has been on the treadmill for 8 of the past 9 years. This will be Denver's 5th year on the treadmill. So, please tell me if the lottery is such a sure fire way to make your team great, why do these teams continue to draft in the lottery? The NBA Lottery is like Hotel California. You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave. EDIT: I will also add that Minnesota is currently on a 13 year lottery treadmill streak, and it isn't guaranteed that they will actually make the playoffs yet. Shut up about Brooklyn. They are not trying to lose they don’t even have their pick. They made a move trying to win like you wanted the hawks to do and it backfired and sent the team into the darkest situation in the NBA. You literally said let’s trade this years pick for vets which is exactly what Brooklyn did look where they are. Edited March 30, 2018 by davis171 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said: @KB21 please acknowledge that you know the difference between a non playoff team and a tanking team i.e. Denver and The Clippers aren't tanking this season...They are just non playoff teams and technically non playoff teams make our point not yours! Oh, I know the difference. I also know that the lottery isn't the way to a championship. 2 minutes ago, davis171 said: Shut up about Brooklyn. They are not trying to lose they don’t even have their pick. They made a move trying to win like you wanted the hawks to do and it backfired and sent the team into the darkest situation in the NBA. No. The darkest situation in the NBA right now is the Atlanta Hawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted March 30, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Just now, KB21 said: Oh, I know the difference. I also know that the lottery isn't the way to a championship. If you know the difference then you wouldn't list teams like NJ in you rant regarding tanking teams. They did exactly what you want the Hawks to do which is mortgage their future for aging veterans to win now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, davis171 said: Shut up about Brooklyn. They are not trying to lose they don’t even have their pick. They made a move trying to win like you wanted the hawks to do and it backfired and sent the team into the darkest situation in the NBA. You literally said let’s trade this years pick for vets which is exactly what Brooklyn did look where they are. Brooklyn made an idiotic move by trading young draft capital for two aging players. Also, part of that Brooklyn trade was to sell more tickets with big name players. That backfired too, seeing how high the Nets ticket prices were that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted March 30, 2018 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 23 minutes ago, KB21 said: He's not going to. How do you know this???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said: If you know the difference then you wouldn't list teams like NJ in you rant regarding tanking teams. They did exactly what you want the Hawks to do which is mortgage their future for aging veterans to win now. My post wasn't about tanking teams. It was about teams in the lottery, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Peoriabird said: How do you know this???? Because that is how GMs that tank operate. They want to prove they are smarter than everyone else and try to do what others have been unable to do....build a team through the draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, KB21 said: ....and somehow, being on the lottery treadmill is better? This will be Phoenix's 8th year on the lottery treadmill. This will be Orlando's 6th year on the lottery treadmill. This will be Sacramento's 12th year on the lottery treadmill. This is Brooklyn's 3rd year on the lottery treadmill (sans picks). This is New York's 5th year on the lottery treadmill. This will be the LA Laker's 5th year on the lottery treadmill (sans pick). Charlotte has been on the treadmill for 6 of the past 8 years. Detroit has been on the treadmill for 8 of the past 9 years. This will be Denver's 5th year on the treadmill. So, please tell me if the lottery is such a sure fire way to make your team great, why do these teams continue to draft in the lottery? The NBA Lottery is like Hotel California. You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave. EDIT: I will also add that Minnesota is currently on a 13 year lottery treadmill streak, and it isn't guaranteed that they will actually make the playoffs yet. This is the NBA lottery to me. A person currently makes $70,000/yr. If I give you a ball, and I give you ONE try to make ONE full court shot, you'll make $1,000,000/yr If you miss that shot, I'll immediately cut your salary in half, and you'll only make $35,000/yr Each year afterwards, you'll get one shot to make the million. If you shoot an air ball, I'll reduce your salary by $5,000. If you can at least hit the backboard, your salary will not change. If you can at least hit the rim, I'll bump your salary up by $5,000. Now if you're only making $35,000, and you're at the floor, then yeah, you're probably going to keep trying to take that one shot for the million. But if you're making $70,000, are you going to risk going down to $35,000, to win a million? That's the NBA Lottery to me. Would you do it? Edited March 30, 2018 by TheNorthCydeRises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: This is the NBA lottery to me. A person currently makes $70,000/yr. If I give you a ball, and I give you ONE try to make ONE full court shot, you'll make $1,000,000/yr If you miss that shot, I'll immediately cut your salary in half, and you'll only make $35,000/yr Each year afterwards, you'll get one shot to make the million. If you miss, your salary stays at $35,000/yr. If you shoot an air ball, I'll reduce your salary by $5,000. If you can at least hit the backboard, your salary will not change. If you can at least hit the rim, I'll bump your salary up by $5,000. Now if you're only making $35,000, and you're at the floor, then yeah, you're probably going to keep trying to take that one shot for the million. But if you're making $70,000, are you going to risk going down to $35,000, to win a million? That's the NBA Lottery to me. Would you do it? Hell no, but I'm the guy that went to the black jack table with $25 and when I got up to $75, I walked away and haven't returned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davis171 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 49 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: Brooklyn made an idiotic move by trading young draft capital for two aging players. Also, part of that Brooklyn trade was to sell more tickets with big name players. That backfired too, seeing how high the Nets ticket prices were that season. Brooklyn was 100% trying to win and they acquired overpaid over the hill non prime vets just like the hawks had on their roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davis171 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, KB21 said: Because that is how GMs that tank operate. They want to prove they are smarter than everyone else and try to do what others have been unable to do....build a team through the draft. BABHAHAHAHAHA the #1 thing a GM wants is to keep his job so building a winner is the best way to do it. I’m done with you lol remember you said Charlotte > 76ers Edited March 30, 2018 by davis171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: This is at minimum, a 45 - 50 win team that challenges for a 3 - 6 seed in the East. Bwah ha hahahahahahahahaha No it ain't. Your boy Dwight and Paul are a HORRIBLE fit. Paul has been PROVING he cannot play well with an inside big man or one that both roams inside and outside. They didn't and don't fit together even with an elite passing point guard. Sorry but that team does not make the playoffs. It's a 33-35 win team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lurker said: Bwah ha hahahahahahahahaha No it ain't. Your boy Dwight and Paul are a HORRIBLE fit. Paul has been PROVING he cannot play well with an inside big man or one that both roams inside and outside. They didn't and don't fit together even with an elite passing point guard. Sorry but that team does not make the playoffs. It's a 33-35 win team. This why this exercise is futile, because no matter what is said about how the team, if kept intact, was a playoff caliber team, those of you who are tank slurpers and think that tanking is the only way you can build a championship team will continue to say it isn't. If the Hawks bring the same team back from last year, in this conference where there are only 3 really good teams, the Hawks are a 4-5 seed team in the playoffs. And on top of that, you would have seen more development and progression from Taurean Prince, better development of John Collins's game, and you may have also been able to salvage Dennis to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davis171 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: There's no convincing you, because no matter what anyone says, you won't believe it. This team was a 43 win team DESPITE the pitiful and inconsistent offense. So you may want to stop reading now. The negative point differential is directly attributed to the multiple blowout losses this team incurred, mainly because too many people had the "green light" to shoot the ball in this offense, if they're open. If you're open, but you have a tendency to shoot bricks, it doesn't matter if you're open. You're still going to miss. Maybe if they threw the ball inside a little more often, or take a few dribbles and take an 18 footer that they could make, the offensive efficiency wouldn't have been as bad. IF they brought everyone back ( Howard, Hardaway Jr, Millsap ), this is the squad. black - returning green - draft picks red - free agent signings Starters: ( roughly 88.7 million in salary ) PG - Schröder - 15.5 mill G - Hardaway Jr - 16.5 mill F - Prince - 2.4 mill PF - Millsap - 30.8 mill C - Howard - 23.5 mill Bench: ( 25.9 mill in salary ) PG - Frank Mason - 0.8 mill - 2017 2nd Rd draft pick ( #31 ) . . we retain this pick if we didn't trade Dwight G - Sindarius Thornwell - 0.8 mill - 2017 2nd Rd draft pick ( #48 ) G/F - Bazemore - 16.9 mill F/C - John Collins - 1.9 mill - 2017 1st Rd draft pick ( #19 ) G/F - Bembry - 1.6 mill PG - Delaney - 2.5 mill F - Cavanaugh - 0.075 mill - 2-way contract C - Diamond Stone - 1.3 mill - minimum contract Total: 114.6 mill + whatever exceptions or residual contracts I missed Salary Cap: 99.1 mill Luxury Tax: 119.3 mill If the only financial constraint that we're worried about is going over the tax, this is the team that we could field. As the season progressed, all 3 of those draft picks would be integral parts of the reserve unit, with Mason eventually overtaking Delaney as the backup PG. Thornwell, Baze, and Bembry are actually 3 above average defenders to throw at reserve wings. Either Bembry or Thornwell may be a casualty in the rotation though, especially if Bembry couldn't show the ability to sometimes run the point. Thornwell has more overall offensive scoring talent, and is just as good of a defender as Bembry. Potential minutes rotation: PG - Dennis ( 33 ) - Delaney/Mason ( 15 ) G - Hardaway Jr ( 28 ) - Baze ( 8 ) - Thornwell/Bembry ( 12 ) F - Prince ( 14 ) - Baze ( 20 ) PF - Millsap ( 32 ) - Prince ( 16 ) C - Howard ( 28 ) - Collins ( 20 ) Dennis ( 33 ) Millsap ( 32 ) Prince ( 30 ) Howard ( 28 ) Baze ( 28 ) Hardaway ( 28 ) Collins ( 20 ) Mason ( 15 ) Thornwell ( 12 ) That would be my proposed 9-man rotation. And that team, if healthy, DEFINITELY makes the playoffs. Defensively, we don't take a step back at all, and would still be a top 5 - 10 defense. You add 2 rookies ( Thornwell and Mason ) who are OLDER players that know how to play the game correctly. You add the young stud in Collins, who would get his minutes and learn from two of the better frontline players in the league in Howard and Millsap. And you'd have 1 more season in which the main core of the team could play with each other. This is at minimum, a 45 - 50 win team that challenges for a 3 - 6 seed in the East. Lmao we Had a negative plus minus last year why would an owner want to pay $20 mil extra for a team that on paper isn’t significantly better than last year? Stop arguing about tanking Ressler wanted to reset that’s why Schlenk was brought in. Schlenk > Bud imo on the front office side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davis171 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, KB21 said: This why this exercise is futile, because no matter what is said about how the team, if kept intact, was a playoff caliber team, those of you who are tank slurpers and think that tanking is the only way you can build a championship team will continue to say it isn't. If the Hawks bring the same team back from last year, in this conference where there are only 3 really good teams, the Hawks are a 4-5 seed team in the playoffs. And on top of that, you would have seen more development and progression from Taurean Prince, better development of John Collins's game, and you may have also been able to salvage Dennis to an extent. I have asked you MULTIPLE times please say a team that paid a third of the cap to a 33 year old boarderline all star and a 1/4 of the cap to a non all star center that won a championship? Yay Cleveland gets to pound on us some more lol. Edited March 30, 2018 by davis171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 minute ago, davis171 said: I have asked you MULTIPLE times please say a team that paid a third of the cap to a 33 year old boarderline all star and a 1/4 to a non all star center that won a championship? It doesn't matter, because both of those contracts would have been off the books in 2 years, at which time you have John Collins more ready to be a starter, and maybe a guy like Mitchell Robinson (who may ultimately be the best big man from this draft) ready to step in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 I'm sorry, but if we're going to play the "what goes around comes around game", that means that the negative point differential was going to come back and bite this season's Hawks HARD, just like how KB is crowing ZOMG KAAARRMMMAAAA with Embiid's injury. And by hard, I mean no playoffs. It didn't matter what was going to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davis171 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, KB21 said: It doesn't matter, because both of those contracts would have been off the books in 2 years, at which time you have John Collins more ready to be a starter, and maybe a guy like Mitchell Robinson (who may ultimately be the best big man from this draft) ready to step in. Lol you his personal trainer and know something everyone else doesn’t? You have no path that is clear to a championship either so until you come up with a plan on how the hawks can significantly improve and can answer how you have Charlotte > 76ers.... you also said you wanted to trade our draft picks but we would still draft our Kawhi or Giannis I’m so confused by you. Edited March 30, 2018 by davis171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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