Half the season behind us, what FA targets are you most hoping on Schlenk's radar?

[AHF]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

4. Collins? Collins ever sniffed an ASG appearance yet? And at that, he plays in which conference? I understand what you're saying, but there's an implication in what you're saying that the two are equals. I love Collins, but Ingram is more like Trae than he is like Collins.

Woah, woah, woah.  This I don't agree with at all.

Let's compare:

Career to Date:

For this season:

RAPTOR projections (which will shift after this season in a way which favors Ingram but this shows where he was after 3 years)

Collins and Ingram are much closer than Ingram and Trae.  I think there is a strong case to be for Collins over Ingram.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Woah, woah, woah.  This I don't agree with at all.

Let's compare:

Career to Date:

For this season:

RAPTOR projections (which will shift after this season in a way which favors Ingram but this shows where he was after 3 years)

Collins and Ingram are much closer than Ingram and Trae.  I think there is a strong case to be for Collins over Ingram.

I just don't understand why posters continue to under appreciate what Collins has accomplished as a Hawks.  Its truly amazing actually.

[sturt]

22 minutes ago, AHF said:

Woah, woah, woah.  This I don't agree with at all.

Let's compare:

Career to Date:

For this season:

RAPTOR projections (which will shift after this season in a way which favors Ingram but this shows where he was after 3 years)

Collins and Ingram are much closer than Ingram and Trae.  I think there is a strong case to be for Collins over Ingram.

Whoa. Whoa?

Why you'd even bother posting the 538 Raptor market value is by your own admission a misnomer.

It's been covered ad nauseum that Ingram's value is indeed questionable... does one take his 2019-20 performance to be indicative of his trajectory, or not?... that's the question that Schlenk and his scouts have to evaluate.

THAT INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH... is the same question that one could mostly pose about Trae Young, since it also took him awhile (not as long as Ingram) to esteem himself... and, that it's only been this season that the 21 yr-old Young and the 22 yr-old Ingram were so well regarded that they were selected to ASG participation/status.

So, no whoa, whoa. I love Collins. But he's... objectively... not been considered to be at that level just yet. It's coming, I'm sure, though.

 

 

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

So, no whoa, whoa. I love Collins. But he's... objectively... not been considered to be at that level just yet.

 

 

Could a possible explanation be that he missed over a 3rd of the season and that is why he didn't make the all star team or do you just not think his numbers warrant all star consideration.

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Could a possible explanation be that he missed over a 3rd of the season and that is why he didn't make the all star team or do you just not think his numbers warrant all star consideration.

That seems obvious to me.  Guy was suspended for 25 games so was not going to get in regardless of production.

These guys put up the same win share total this season even factoring in those 25 missed games.

[sturt]

45 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Could a possible explanation be that he missed over a 3rd of the season and that is why he didn't make the all star team or do you just not think his numbers warrant all star consideration.

It's a valid question.

I have no problem with the assumption he would have.

But the statement I made stands, regardless, of course.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

It's a valid question.

I have no problem with the assumption he would have.

But the statement I made stands, regardless, of course.

Spectrum alert! LOL!

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Spectrum alert! LOL!

I'm a simple man born in Appalachia, the grandson of two coal miners, and the first in my immediate family to finish college.

So... don't know what that comment means, but okay.  

 

 

Back on the tracks... in Travis I trust to do the right thing. and get us closer to a championship than ever before.

(As long as he does what I tell him when he calls me to ask for advice, of course. *wink*)

[Buzzard]

7 hours ago, sturt said:

4. Collins? Collins ever sniffed an ASG appearance yet? And at that, he plays in which conference? I understand what you're saying, but there's an implication in what you're saying that the two are equals. I love Collins, but Ingram is more like Trae than he is like Collins.

And therein lies your koolaid. Like I said earlier and you downplayed it: you think Ingram is a top SF. If he is, of course he is worth 27 Million to most teams.

Enjoy your koolaid and keep up the hope. You are entitled to it.

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, sturt said:

pet cat

where are you going with this counselor? 

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, sturt said:

I don't believe the mods allow threats on this board. Careful.  

Threat? Dunking on you is a threat now? Ok I apologize. I will lay the ball up while barely grazing the rim with my hand 🖐 and allowing it to gently fall through the hoop in a Chris Mullin dunk fashion?

Better? See, again Sturt you turn my words and posts around and come up with anything you want. I can’t win in that game. 
 

 

[sturt]

31 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

And therein lies your koolaid. Like I said earlier and you downplayed it: you think Ingram is a top SF. If he is, of course he is worth 27 Million to most teams.

Enjoy your koolaid and keep up the hope. You are entitled to it.

And therein lies your contempt.

It's not a matter of opinion or kool-aid. Trae and Ingram are 21 and 22 year-olds who both now hold a ASG pedigree on their resume's.

And it takes a special kind of contempt to pretend that a SF who makes an ASG is not a "top SF."

My point was more nuanced than that though... that is, that it's less about Ingram, and for that matter less about AD... rather, it's about Schlenk's blueprint, which then has implications to AD, and to Ingram as potential pursuits of Schlenk's.

And to put a bow on top... at what point do you acknowledge you can't bring yourself to concede that maybe just maybe Schlenk does think Ingram is worth pursuing? That's a special kind of arrogance, given that I, otoh, have conceded the converse something close to 187 times now.

 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

187

 

[sturt]

13 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

See, again Sturt you turn my words and posts around and come up with anything you want. I can’t win in that game.

You'd have to show where that actually happened. Since you can't, and since you're allergic to explanations in general, you're actually going to find it goes the other way... you begin to be considered someone who brings no substance to any assertion he ever makes, and when called on that, does wild rhetorical dances to try to sluff off the blame for that on others... it's all their fault.

Better to just admit it... I'm right to have humbly recommended you modify your Harrell advocacy to focus on something this current roster doesn't have, ie, a low post dime maker.

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Okay, okay.

Just 186 then.

 

  

[AHF]

Jamaal Magloire has an All-Star appearance on his resume.  I'd look deeper than that in comparing and contrasting Ingram to Collins and Trae.

Even though he has played a year less and was suspended for 25 games last season, Collins still has an overall 3:2 advantage on career win shares and his per minute number is 3x as good.  

I super don't get the "Trae took 3 months to become a superstar and isn't that comparable to 3 years for Ingram because both made their first All-Star teams this season?"  Come on, sturt.  

Trae / Ingram 2019-20

PER 23.9 / 19.2

WS 5.9 / 4.9

BPM 4.0 / 2.4

VORP 3.2 / 2.1

These are sizable gaps.

None of that is a reason not to like Ingram and certainly doesn't take him out of the conversation for a max contract.  But let's recognize these guys aren't on the same tier.  Comparing Ingram and Collins is fair.  Both are nicely developing 22 year olds with some warts on their resume but overall extremely promising potential.  Both look like they could be the #2 or #3 player on a very good team.  Trae looks to me like someone with a ceiling of MVP which I would not say applies to either Collins or Ingram.

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Jamaal Magloire has an All-Star appearance on his resume.  I'd look deeper than that in comparing and contrasting Ingram to Collins and Trae.

Even though he has played a year less and was suspended for 25 games last season, Collins still has an overall 3:2 advantage on career win shares and his per minute number is 3x as good.  

I super don't get the "Trae took 3 months to become a superstar and isn't that comparable to 3 years for Ingram because both made their first All-Star teams this season?"  Come on, sturt.  

Trae / Ingram 2019-20

PER 23.9 / 19.2

WS 5.9 / 4.9

BPM 4.0 / 2.4

VORP 3.2 / 2.1

These are sizable gaps.

None of that is a reason not to like Ingram and certainly doesn't take him out of the conversation for a max contract.  But let's recognize these guys aren't on the same tier.  Comparing Ingram and Collins is fair.  Both are nicely developing 22 year olds with some warts on their resume but overall extremely promising potential.  Both look like they could be the #2 or #3 player on a very good team.  Trae looks to me like someone with a ceiling of MVP which I would not say applies to either Collins or Ingram.

How come y'all comment on this nonsense but won't touch the Coaching thread? 

[Buzzard]

49 minutes ago, sturt said:

And therein lies your contempt.

It's not a matter of opinion or kool-aid. Trae and Ingram are 21 and 22 year-olds who both now hold a ASG pedigree on their resume's.

And it takes a special kind of contempt to pretend that a SF who makes an ASG is not a "top SF."

My point was more nuanced than that though... that is, that it's less about Ingram, and for that matter less about AD... rather, it's about Schlenk's blueprint, which then has implications to AD, and to Ingram as potential pursuits of Schlenk's.

And to put a bow on top... at what point do you acknowledge you can't bring yourself to concede that maybe just maybe Schlenk does think Ingram is worth pursuing? That's a special kind of arrogance, given that I, otoh, have conceded the converse something close to 187 times now.

 

Its not contempt to say you like Ingram a lot anymore than it is when I say I like Capala a lot. I am drinking the Capela koolaid by the liter for what he brings to our defense; and I like the defensive possibilities of Reddish, Hunter, and Capela being a defensive trifecta that can create a fence around Trae. That's my current koolaid for sure.

Koolaid is a funny term its not a cuss word or vulgar word. Don't take it like that. I laugh at myself every time I think back to the Marvin Williams koolaid I liked so much; until his 3rd season when he started proving me wrong about his upside.

I am going to enjoy my current koolaid hopefully as much as you enjoy yours.

PS What part of I am not ruling anything out about 10 - 20 post ago did you not understand? I said that because I can't read Schlenks mind. Not because everything you say is what I think he will do,

Edited April 17, 2020 by Buzzard

[sturt]

5 hours ago, sturt said:

Whoa. Whoa?

Why you'd even bother posting the 538 Raptor market value is by your own admission a misnomer.

It's been covered ad nauseum that Ingram's value is indeed questionable... does one take his 2019-20 performance to be indicative of his trajectory, or not?... that's the question that Schlenk and his scouts have to evaluate.

THAT INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH... is the same question that one could mostly pose about Trae Young, since it also took him awhile (not as long as Ingram) to esteem himself... and, that it's only been this season that the 21 yr-old Young and the 22 yr-old Ingram were so well regarded that they were selected to ASG participation/status.

So, no whoa, whoa. I love Collins. But he's... objectively... not been considered to be at that level just yet. It's coming, I'm sure, though.

 

@AHF, you're going to have to help me out... exactly which words in any of this is inaccurate, even still taking into account what you just posted???

That the market value by your own admission is a misnomer?

That it's been covered ad nauseum that Ingram's value/trajectory is indeed questionable?

That it's not actually all that different a question for Trae, who also has only come-of-age in a head-turning way within relatively recent history?

That the two were so well regarded that they were selected to an ASG?

That it's not an objective statement to say Collins hasn't yet been considered to be at that level yet?

 

Which?

 

And again.... these are tangential to the real point, but no one seems to want to talk about the real point... perhaps because the real point (Schlenk's blueprint) is widely understood.

And again again... why not concede that maybe Schlenk does think Ingram is worth pursuing? Why is that so hard for people? I've said 233 times now that he might not think he's worth pursuing.

Maybe because I'm attempting balance, and that's just something I value that others don't really. Seems the Occams Razor conclusion to me, anyway.

 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

You'd have to show where that actually happened. Since you can't,

Right there you did it. You ask me to do something I’ve done a million times before on prior posts but you never read it. That’s on you kid