CAM REDDISH TO NY FOR KEVIN KNOX AND FIRST!?!

[AUhawksfan]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I have so many friends who watch only NCAA and not NBA and even the Dukies thought Cam wouldn't be good.    And i thought they were crazy.  I felt the same about Trae.  I think if you're more tuned in to the nba, when you see the raw talent on some of these guys you just know that at the very least they won't be a bust and most likely the NBA will develop them.   The stuff talent and gifts that Trae and Cam have aren't things that you can develop once you get to the NBA.  The things they lack are the things NBA coaches know how to teach.    My favorite comment was that Cam can't shoot.  What?!?

Yeah, honestly I was never that impressed with Barrett when I watched Duke.  He seemed like he was pretty set with his game (low ceiling) and his form wasn't great.

Cam was raw, somewhat injured, and playing a quiet third fiddle but I loved his form and feel for the game even with the poor offensive stats.  You could just tell he needed to grow and get that confidence going but his shooting form always impressed me and I figured it would come. 

The fact that it has already come this season is ahead of my expectations.  I also didn't think we'd see much until next year.

[KB21]

The likely outcome of a 3 and D wing player is not bad for where he was picked.  It still stings that the Hawks could have had Brandon Clarke though.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

As soon as I saw #CodeReddish vs my Jackets, I knew he'd be a good pro.  I also felt Barrett was overrated.  Good player, not this superstar in the making.  In fairness though, I thought that after watching him in HS playing with current Jacket M. Devoe.

I stuck with mine.

Cam/Culver/Clarke/Kabengele

CCCK for spud  

 

Cam n Clarke have IT. Culver is sadly in Minny where players usually get traded, and Kabengele is gonna shine once he gets some burn he’s buried in Clipperland.

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The likely outcome of a 3 and D wing player is not bad for where he was picked.  It still stings that the Hawks could have had Brandon Clarke though.

I'll continue to prefer Reddish's long-term future over Clarke's.  Clarke has been great this year.  It is an open question in my mind whether he will end up being a plus starter or better.  Right now, he is a great sixth man.  (He plays the same number of minutes as fellow bench rotation guy Anthony Tolliver).  Definitely looks like he can be but some difference transitioning to a starter.

I'm more confident that Reddish will be a plus starter or better.

[KB21]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I'll continue to prefer Reddish's long-term future over Clarke's.  Clarke has been great this year.  It is an open question in my mind whether he will end up being a plus starter or better.  Right now, he is a great sixth man.  (He plays the same number of minutes as fellow bench rotation guy Anthony Tolliver).  Definitely looks like he can be but some difference transitioning to a starter.

I'm more confident that Reddish will be a plus starter or better.

Reddish has no history of being a plus level starter at higher levels.  

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Reddish has no history of being a plus level starter at higher levels.  

What higher levels are you talking about?  He was clearly a plus starter as a McDonald's All-American in HS.  Then he played one year at Duke where he was injured and terrible.  Now he is in his rookie season.  If you are just saying he was rough at Duke and to start this season then I'll tell you that I already was aware of that when I made my last post.  Doesn't change my view.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

What higher levels are you talking about?  He was clearly a plus starter as a McDonald's All-American in HS.  Then he played one year at Duke where he was injured and terrible.  Now he is in his rookie season.  If you are just saying he was rough at Duke and to start this season then I'll tell you that I already was aware of that when I made my last post.  Doesn't change my view.

Being a star in AAU or high school doesn’t count in my view.  

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Being a star in AAU or high school doesn’t count in my view.  

He was hurt last season and not very good.  You saying that a rookie who was hurt and struggled his only year in college has 'no history of high level performance' is like a "duh" response.  Doesn't mean much.  I have seen enough from him in 2020 to think he will be a plus starter as a two-way wing. 

It isn't like Clarke was a standout at San Jose State as a freshman.  He stayed 2 more years and become a plus starter in a real conference as a junior.  I don't need Cam to return to Duke and star this season to make me believe in his future.  Seeing the way he has played defense all year and the way his offense has progressed month to month is enough for me.  

You can feel free to disagree.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

He was hurt last season and not very good.  You saying that a rookie who was hurt and struggled his only year in college has 'no history of high level performance' is like a "duh" response.  Doesn't mean much.  I have seen enough from him in 2020 to think he will be a plus starter as a two-way wing. 

It isn't like Clarke was a standout at San Jose State as a freshman.  He stayed 2 more years and become a plus starter in a real conference as a junior.  I don't need Cam to return to Duke and star this season to make me believe in his future.  Seeing the way he has played defense all year and the way his offense has progressed month to month is enough for me.  

You can feel free to disagree.

Tell me the last time a bad college player became a star in the NBA. 

[Gray Mule]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Tell me the last time a bad college player became a star in the NBA. 

Well, after all, he was injured his entire year at Duke.  This should count for something.  Maybe he is going to be the first one.  We all hope so!

 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Tell me the last time a bad college player became a star in the NBA. 

He wasn't a bad college player. He was just average in general in terms of production and still gave us impact. He was honorable mention All-ACC. Still showed tremendous potential and talent. Just wasn't good, didn't have a sensible role and was injured all year.

For freshman who struggled or failed to live up or close to expectations, was just average production freshmen hoopers like Reddish and are very good players or accomplished NBA players: you can decide which one is a star to you, your choice:

Jaylen Brown

DeAndre Jordan 

Zack LeVine

Bradley Beal 

Harrison Barnes

Rudy Gay

Jrue Holiday

Eric Bledsoe

Avery Bradley

Lance Stephenson 

Tobias Harris

Cory Joseph 

Andre Drummond 

Austin Rivers

Dejounte Murray 

 

[AHF]

46 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Tell me the last time a bad college player became a star in the NBA. 

He was injured and struggled.  Unless you think he is permanently injured, it would be foolish to draw your conclusions based primarily on how he struggled while injured. 

I'll point you to a lot of players who struggled while injured and came back to have good careers.  Seems like we just disagree on how heavily to weight his injury performance.  You seem to think it is extremely important.  I think that it has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

He was injured and struggled.  Unless you think he is permanently injured, it would be foolish to draw your conclusions based primarily on how he struggled while injured. 

I'll point you to a lot of players who struggled while injured and came back to have good careers.  Seems like we just disagree on how heavily to weight his injury performance.  You seem to think it is extremely important.  I think that it has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

All you have to do is read what coaches felt about him on this page. Cam was seen by most college coaches to be Dukes more skilled player with the tremendous upside. Go to Page 15 - Spolier. 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by NBASupes

[KB21]

24 minutes ago, AHF said:

He was injured and struggled.  Unless you think he is permanently injured, it would be foolish to draw your conclusions based primarily on how he struggled while injured. 

I'll point you to a lot of players who struggled while injured and came back to have good careers.  Seems like we just disagree on how heavily to weight his injury performance.  You seem to think it is extremely important.  I think that it has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

I think actually producing is very important. 

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I think actually producing is very important. 

I answered your question, don't run from it either.

[KB21]

55 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I answered your question, don't run from it either.

Run from what?  That list is not very encouraging.  Bradley Beal is the only guy on that list that is an All Star player, and he was much better as a freshman in college than the others on this list were.

I happen to think that a Jaylen Brown type of outcome for Cam would be tremendous for him.  Jaylen is not a star player, and he certainly isn’t one of the best players in the NBA.  He’s a solid player though, and I think if your expectations for Cam are realistic (your’s are not), then you should be happy with a Jaylen Brown type of outcome.  

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Run from what?  That list is not very encouraging.  Bradley Beal is the only guy on that list that is an All Star player, and he was much better as a freshman in college than the others on this list were.

I happen to think that a Jaylen Brown type of outcome for Cam would be tremendous for him.  Jaylen is not a star player, and he certainly isn’t one of the best players in the NBA.  He’s a solid player though, and I think if your expectations for Cam are realistic (your’s are not), then you should be happy with a Jaylen Brown type of outcome.  

This is all of your opinion which you know I think is trash in regards to this topic

[Lurker]

With the kind of injury Reddish had, you might be able to just throw his freshman season in the trash entirely. I'm beginning to see how a core muscle deal can affect you in several ways.

But to show how there might be more than one way to slice it to get to a good outcome, many others, maybe even tanking teams, might very well have chosen to at least somewhat redshirt rookie him and not planned on counting on him, even if he was taken high. Because there was a lot to work on. Turns out some of it is being worked on on the fly, but choosing to throw completely unready players into the fire to make them sink or swim can cause very ugly looking results to start out. And that's been the story.

[Lurker]

What Cam looks like not in 20/21 (although I want him to start that year), but 21/22 will hold great intrigue to me. To me he's partly a very real test case in teams taking a gamble in their development staff in growing a raw product into a star. 

For the Hawks purposes, it needs to happen though or they've likely busted on the tank/rebuild and a lot of people in the FO are going to look horrible. Probably fired as well.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Lurker

[Lurker]

Here's a bit of a funny now.

Reddish is now at 37.7% FG/33.1% 3PT.

I thought poor college likely translates to worse pro results.

Well, his overall FG% was worse last year at 35.6%.

Sure is looking as if maybe we needed to just hold up after it came out that he was injured last year. I thought of this as a possibility as I was hearing it, and although I might have taken a different pathway with Cam in redshirting him (even with the tank), it might turn out that Cam and Trae (although he had the big college numbers) are proof there's more than one way to slice it to get what you want. Even if the way of just tossing people in the fire and making them learn and grow on the fly by playing with the big boys can look as ugly as spoiled food does to start out.

It wouldn't surprise me, in the case of Cam panning out and the Hawks going to the playoffs at some point, if the gears shift to both "no championship" and "the Hawks didn't deserve to get this because they chose to not play for winning".