Offense vs Defense

[sillent]

This really is the most versatile teams we've had in a long time.

Offense excites the crowd while defense wins championships!! 

Not saying our roster automatically guarantees that but we have a nice mix of both!!

         Offense       vs.              Defense  

PG Trae Young           PG Dejounte Murray 

SG Bogdan "     "ovic SG Justin Holiday

SF AJ Griffin              SF DeAndre Hunter 

PF John Collins        PF Mo Harkless/OO 

C Frank Kaminski/OO C Clint Capela 

 

Of course these lineups will be shuffled and in many cases we have the best of both worlds. 

OO may jump leaps and bounds if he comes back with a jump shot while remaining tenacious on D.

Defense wins championships and the way we've reconstructed our team we're head in the right direction. 

We've lost 2 of our guys who helped ignite offense in Gallo and Huerter but we've gained more defense and hopefully ball movement.

Now instead of the ball being chucked because it's in a good shooters hands it will now more than likely be moved around around for an even better shot.

If we can also stifle the other team on the defensive side of the floor, we can wear opposing teams down.

If we play our cards right and are coached well we may see a lot of our youth playing in the 4th quarter as our starters and company rest from gaining such a big lead.

Time will tell but I'm order to be a contender you have to have defense. Time will tell but we are definitely moving in the right direction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, sillent said:

This really is the most versatile teams we've had in a long time.

Offense excites the crowd while defense wins championships!! 

 

When I've looked at this in the past, it is pretty clear that having both offense and defense wins championships but that it is easier to win a championship with a modest defense than it is with anything but an elite offense.  So I think the "defense wins championships" line is not really backed up by the data.  Here is a prior post on this:

 

On 5/20/2022 at 11:42 AM, AHF said:

NBA Finals Participants

2021 Champion:  Bucks #6 in ORTG; #10 in DRTG; Runner-Up Suns #5 in ORTG; #9 in DRTG

2020 Champion:  Lakers #11 in ORTG; #3 in DRTG; Runner-Up Heat #7 in ORTG; #11 in DRTG

2019 Champion:  Raptors #5 in ORTG; #5 in DRTG; Runner-Up Warriors #1 in ORTG; #13 in DRTG

2018 Champion:  Warriors #3 in ORTG; #11 in DRTG; Runner-Up Cavs #5 in ORTG; #29 in DRTG

2017 Champion:  Warriors #1 in ORTG; #2 in DRTG; Runner-Up Cavs #3 in ORTG; #21 in DRTG

2016 Champion:  Cavs #3 in ORTG; #10 in DRTG; Runner-Up Warriors #1 in ORTG; #5 in DRTG

2015 Champion:  Warriors #2 in ORTG; #1 in DRTG; Runner-Up Cavs #3 in ORTG; #18 in DRTG

2014 Champion:  Spurs #7 in ORTG; #3 in DRTG; Runner-Up Heat #5 in ORTG; #11 in DRTG

2013 Champion:  Heat #2 in ORTG; #9 in DRTG; Runner-Up Spurs #7 in ORTG; #3 in DRTG

2012 Champion:  Heat #8 in ORTG; #4 in DRTG; Runner-Up Thunder #2 in ORTG; #11 in DRTG

 

So among the 20 finals participants over the last 10 years:

The average ranking in ORTG was 4.35

The average ranking in DRTG was 9.45

 

14 of the 20 finished top 5 in ORTG (70%)

8 of the 20 finished top 5 in DRTG (40%)

 

19 of the 20 finished top 10 in ORTG (95%)

12 of the 20 finished top 10 in DRTG (60%)

 

From a pure numbers perspective it seems pretty obvious that exceling at both offense and defense is a characteristic of most of these teams.  Likewise, it seems obvious that there is a stronger correlation between strong offensive performance and making the finals than there is with strong defensive performance (as measured in ORTG/DRTG).

This year is the first time in over a decade that both teams have been top 5 in DRTG.  We've seen finals matchups between top 5 ORTG teams 5 times.

In more broadly responding to your post, I am also very excited by our team's strength on both sides of the ball and think that opens up opportunities for really strong playoff performance.

[benhillboy]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

When I've looked at this in the past, it is pretty clear that having both offense and defense wins championships but that it is easier to win a championship with a modest defense than it is with anything but an elite offense.  So I think the "defense wins championships" line is not really backed up by the data.  Here is a prior post on this:

 

This year is the first time in over a decade that both teams have been top 5 in DRTG.  We've seen finals matchups between top 5 ORTG teams 5 times.

In more broadly responding to your post, I am also very excited by our team's strength on both sides of the ball and think that opens up opportunities for really strong playoff performance.

You know I love the ratings but they can get messy.  Many of those teams were led by Peak LeBron, the quintessential two way dominant wing to offset a mediocre team defense that slummed it through the regular season by design.
 

The Jazz had the #1 Rank and were bounced pretty easily by an underdog without too many Jazz fans complaining about White Joe Ingles’ absence.  The Warriors’ lead Initiator/ Screener in Draymond missed a lot of games, Steph shot below league average from 2 and in FT attempts (I’m addicted to this adjusted shooting now lol) and Jordan Poole is considerably overrated, hence an 18th O rating for the champs.  I can guarantee you’ll never see a team that low in D rating win it all.  I think the last team that bad was the Lakers with Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum go figure.

I’ve gone from the 6+ point differential Hubie advised, to Top 6 O and D Rating, to a simple 26.5+ assists and under 107.5 points allowed for true contender threshhold.  When I get a sec I’m gonna see how many champs in the last 10 met it.

Edited July 22, 2022 by benhillboy

[Gray Mule]

 

[Gray Mule]

I had several lines typed.  I added a smiley face and it was all erased.

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Gray Mule

[Gray Mule]

Offense VS defense.  You must score one more point than your opponent.  Doesn't matter if the score is 80/79 or 150/149.  Which is more exciting?  Depends on which you like, offense or defense.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Gray Mule

[Spud2nique]

17 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

I had several lines typed.  I added a smiley face and it was all erased.

 

And it doesn’t bring it back when you reopen the window?

[Gray Mule]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

And it doesn’t bring it back when you reopen the window?

No.  Just the smiley face.  I've been having this problem for a while - sometimes a line is erased when I hit enter.  This is the first time an entire post just left.  This doesn't happen anywhere else except the Squawk.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Gray Mule

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Offense VS defense.  You must score one more point than your opponent.  Doesn't matter if the score is 80/79 or 150/149.  Which is more exciting?  Depends on which you like, offense or defense.

150-149 is more aesthetically pleasing to the but 80-79 feels like it was earned. 
 

I dunno.. I’m old school I like two guys learning about each other in the paint … possibly more than they need to. Like an Anthony Mason vs Oakley when Mase went Hornets .. or a Willis banging with a Mahorn, or a Spud bangin with a kg. I digress… 

Only kidding, kg doesn’t want me in the paint …

Honestly Gramps it’s like Canilla or chocolate for ice cream I’ll do either.

[AHF]

33 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

You know I love the ratings but they can get messy.  Many of those teams were led by Peak LeBron, the quintessential two way dominant wing to offset a mediocre team defense that slummed it through the regular season by design.
 

The Jazz had the #1 Rank and were bounced pretty easily by an underdog without too many Jazz fans complaining about White Joe Ingles’ absence.  The Warriors’ lead Initiator/ Screener in Draymond missed a lot of games, Steph shot below league average from 2 and in FT attempts (I’m addicted to this adjusted shooting now lol) and Jordan Poole is considerably overrated, hence an 18th O rating for the champs.  I can guarantee you’ll never see a team that low in D rating win it all.  I think the last team that bad was the Lakers with Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum go figure.

I’ve gone from the 6+ point differential Hubie advised, to Top 6 O and D Rating, to a simple 26.5+ assists and under 107.5 points allowed for true contender threshhold.  When I get a sec I’m gonna see how many champs in the last 10 met it.

Golden State's offensive rating numbers were dramatically depressed this year.  Because Steph and others were much healthier in the post-season they jumped from a 112.5 ORTG in the regular season to a 115.2 in the post-season.  I can guarantee they would not have won a ring if they were still playing with that 112 ORTG level of efficiency.

(As an aside, I think the Kobe, Gasol and Bynum Lakers were just fine in DRTG).

 

[Spud2nique]

I also now notice bringing ice cream up after this gif is bad..

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, Gray Mule said:

No.  Just the smiley face.  I've been having this problem for a while - sometimes a line is erased when I hit enter.  This is the first time an entire post just left.  This doesn't happen anywhere else except the Squawk.

I’ve been getting a lot of ads wanting me to marry a Ukrainian woman and bring her back to the states. Seems like another squawk only thing as well.

Don’t get wrong Gramps, I’d love to take in another lady but I already have one, and if I’ve learned anything is that if you have a problem with your lady, you don’t go out and get a 2nd lady. Then you just have 2 problems. 
 

I’m pretty lucky my wife doesn’t read this. Or at least I hope. 

[AHF]

43 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I’ve gone from the 6+ point differential Hubie advised, to Top 6 O and D Rating, to a simple 26.5+ assists and under 107.5 points allowed for true contender threshhold.  When I get a sec I’m gonna see how many champs in the last 10 met it.

Turns out only Golden State.

 

2022 Golden State - Yes

2021 Milwaukee - Under 26.5 assists and not under 107.5 points allowed

2020 Lakers - Under 26.5 assists and not under 107.5 points allowed

2019 Raptors - Under 26.5 assists and not under 107.5 points allowed

2018 Golden State - Not under 107.5 points allowed

2017 Golden State - Yes

2016 Cleveland - Under 26.5 assists

2015 Golden State - Yes

2014 San Antonio - Under 26.5 assists

2013 Miami - Under 26.5 assists

2012 Miami - Under 26.5 assists

2011 Dallas - Under 26.5 assists