Player Development

[KB21]

https://saltcityhoops.com/quin-snyder-on-his-coaching-philosophy-player-development-analytics-and-more/
 

Player development skill

Part of that improvement will have to come through player development. By most measures, the Jazz were one of the 5 youngest teams last season, but their youth all have the physical tools to improve upon their games. Because of this, Lindsey said “The development issue was really central to this decision.” DeMarre Carroll, the former Jazzman now on the Atlanta Hawks, credited Snyder with much of his development this season. He told the Atlanta Journal-Constution last year,  “This is the first year a coach really worked with me on my footwork, my shot, spent time with me. That’s a credit to Coach Quin. That shows me that he cares about me as a person, cares about my career.”

Dennis Lindsey and Atlanta head coach Mike Budenholzer agreed with Carroll’s assessment of Snyder’s developmental capacities. “[Budenholzer] and I feel like there’s a best development coach out there, someone who we both have worked with in the past, we’ll leave him unnamed¹, but he said I think Quin is hitting this person’s stage and level of expertise towards that realm of basketball.”

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/platform/amp/2018/2/17/17010774/hawks-university-atlanta-player-development-mike-budenholzer
 

The Hawks have become among the NBA’s elite player development teams which should scare the rest of the NBA. With the Hawks having three first round picks in the 2018 NBA Draft and two more first round picks in the 2019 Draft, the future looks bright for Atlanta.
 

https://lastwordonsports.com/basketball/2021/02/15/san-antonio-spurs-player-development-key-to-sustained-success/?amp=1
 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26425741/san-antonio-spurs-go-great-lengths-player-development
 

Although player development serves an important role for most NBA teams, it's everything in San Antonio, which last drafted in the lottery in 1997 with the pickup of Tim Duncan at No. 1 overall.

We are seeing the beginning constructs of the Hawks getting back to player development becoming a focus   We haven’t had this focus since Bud was the coach   

 

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

https://saltcityhoops.com/quin-snyder-on-his-coaching-philosophy-player-development-analytics-and-more/
 

Player development skill

Part of that improvement will have to come through player development. By most measures, the Jazz were one of the 5 youngest teams last season, but their youth all have the physical tools to improve upon their games. Because of this, Lindsey said “The development issue was really central to this decision.” DeMarre Carroll, the former Jazzman now on the Atlanta Hawks, credited Snyder with much of his development this season. He told the Atlanta Journal-Constution last year,  “This is the first year a coach really worked with me on my footwork, my shot, spent time with me. That’s a credit to Coach Quin. That shows me that he cares about me as a person, cares about my career.”

Dennis Lindsey and Atlanta head coach Mike Budenholzer agreed with Carroll’s assessment of Snyder’s developmental capacities. “[Budenholzer] and I feel like there’s a best development coach out there, someone who we both have worked with in the past, we’ll leave him unnamed¹, but he said I think Quin is hitting this person’s stage and level of expertise towards that realm of basketball.”

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/platform/amp/2018/2/17/17010774/hawks-university-atlanta-player-development-mike-budenholzer
 

The Hawks have become among the NBA’s elite player development teams which should scare the rest of the NBA. With the Hawks having three first round picks in the 2018 NBA Draft and two more first round picks in the 2019 Draft, the future looks bright for Atlanta.
 

https://lastwordonsports.com/basketball/2021/02/15/san-antonio-spurs-player-development-key-to-sustained-success/?amp=1
 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26425741/san-antonio-spurs-go-great-lengths-player-development
 

Although player development serves an important role for most NBA teams, it's everything in San Antonio, which last drafted in the lottery in 1997 with the pickup of Tim Duncan at No. 1 overall.

We are seeing the beginning constructs of the Hawks getting back to player development becoming a focus   We haven’t had this focus since Bud was the coach   

 

Due to the 2nd apron, player development will be more important than ever.

[JayBirdHawk]

We have a stable of young guys that's gonna need it:

23 and under
PG: Bufkin (19) , TyTy (21)
SG: Lundy (23), Vit (23) 
SF: Griffin (19)
PF: Johnson (21), Garuba (21), Norris (23)
C - Okongwu (22), Gueye (20)

Then we have Bey, Martin and Bruno who are 24 years old.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We have a stable of young guys that's gonna need it:

23 and under
PG: Bufkin (19) , TyTy (21)
SG: Lundy (23), Vit (23) 
SF: Griffin (19)
PF: Johnson (21), Garuba (21), Norris (23)
C - Okongwu (22), Gueye (20)

Then we have Bey, Martin and Bruno who are 24 years old.

This is an extremely young squad outside of the top guys rotational guys.

Gueye has zero potential at center whereas Garuba can play the 4 or 5 equally as well. Norris, idk what his position is in the NBA because he's too small to be a 5 and not athletic enough to be a 4. He looks like an AAAA guy. Baseball terminology 

Edited July 2, 2023 by NBASupes

[RedDawg#8]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This is an extremely young squad outside of the top guys rotational guys.

Shoot, even then, Clint (29) and Bogi (30) are the oldest guys on the entire roster, which is still pretty young for your “vets”.

Demarre Carroll was 27/28 during his time with the Hawks when Quin took him from a no name to a highly paid 3&D wing.

Imagine the untapped growth our “vets” who are still in their mid-20’s could have if he can improve them in a similar fashion as he did with DMC at a similar age.

If our main rotation guys can improve their games even just incrementally, we are a dangerous squad again.

[KB21]

16 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Shoot, even then, Clint (29) and Bogi (30) are the oldest guys on the entire roster, which is still pretty young for your “vets”.

Demarre Carroll was 27/28 during his time with the Hawks when Quin took him from a no name to a highly paid 3&D wing.

Imagine the untapped growth our “vets” who are still in their mid-20’s could have if he can improve them in a similar fashion as he did with DMC at a similar age.

If our main rotation guys can improve their games even just incrementally, we are a dangerous squad again.

I’ve been saying this for a while.  Had we kept Hawks University and not gone to Tank University, there is no telling how good these young players we acquired would have been.  Hawks University would have probably salvaged Cam Reddish’s career, and I doubt we would be talking about trading Dre just to unload his contract.  

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

I’ve been saying this for a while.  Had we kept Hawks University and not gone to Tank University, there is no telling how good these young players we acquired would have been.  Hawks University would have probably salvaged Cam Reddish’s career, and I doubt we would be talking about trading Dre just to unload his contract.  

You've got to let that go - Bud the GM left the front office a mess then Bud the Coach baled so he didn't give himself an opportunity to coach Reddish. Yes he baled.

[KB21]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You've got to let that go - Bud the GM left the front office a mess then Bud the Coach baled so he didn't give himself an opportunity to coach Reddish. Yes he baled.

Still could have hired Darvin Ham or Taylor Jenkins.  Both would have been MUCH better that Lloyd Pierce and done a much better job with a better coaching staff than what was assembled under Pierce.  

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Still could have hired Darvin Ham or Taylor Jenkins.  Both would have been MUCH better that Lloyd Pierce and done a much better job with a better coaching staff than what was assembled under Pierce.  

You don't know that and they all left with Bud. And the same staff assembled under LP with Nate at the helm went to the ECF.

Let.It.Go!!!!

[KB21]

If you want to continue to deny the fact that, due to the path we chose to take, we haven’t developed these young players properly or that someone from the Spurs tree or the Bud tree wouldn’t have been monumentally better than the crap we hired, then that’s on you.  I’m just glad that ownership came to its senses and hired Quin, who is a branch off Bud’s tree as well as Popovich’s tree.  

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

If you want to continue to deny the fact that, due to the path we chose to take, we haven’t developed these young players properly or that someone from the Spurs tree or the Bud tree wouldn’t have been monumentally better than the crap we hired, then that’s on you.  I’m just glad that ownership came to its senses and hired Quin, who is a branch off Bud’s tree as well as Popovich’s tree.  

There is no denying that Bud did not want to take the path with the Hawks, after saying he was okay with it and then he CHOSE to bale. That is the FACT!

 

[RedDawg#8]

If Bud or one of his disciples were here who says we even draft Reddish (or even be in position to draft him).

Bud only ever drafted older college players or extremely raw overseas players. Reddish would not have been his cup of tea. And now that I think about it, out of all of the draftee's in his tenure, who did Bud actually develop in to a good NBA player?

2016	1	21	DeAndre' Bembry	GF	6-5	210	21	Saint Joseph's	Jr *		6
2016	2	44	Isaia Cordinier	G	6-5	197	19	Denain ASC Voltaire (France)	1996 DOB *	ATL to BRK	0
2016	2	54	Kay Felder	PG	5-9	176	21	Oakland	Jr *	ATL to CLE	2
2015	1	15	Kelly Oubre, Jr.	SF	6-6	203	19	Kansas	Fr *	ATL to WAS	8
2015	2	50	Marcus Eriksson	GF	6-7	178	21	BAXI Manresa (Spain)	1993 DOB		0
2015	2	59	Dimitrios Agravanis	F	6-10	210	20	Olympiacos (Greece)	1994 DOB *	ATL to CLE CLE to SAC	0
2014	1	15	Adreian Payne	C	6-10	237	23	Michigan State	Sr		4
2014	2	43	Edy Tavares	C	7-3	265	22	Gran Canaria (Spain)	1992 DOB		2
2013	1	17	Dennis Schröder	PG	6-3	172	19	Basketball Lowen Braunschweig (Germany)	1993 DOB *		10
2013	1	18	Shane Larkin	PG	5-11	175	20	Miami (FL)	So *	ATL to DAL	4
2013	2	47	Raulzinho Neto	PG	6-1	179	21	Acunsa GBC (Spain)	1992 DOB *	ATL to UTH	8
2013	2	50	James Ennis	GF	6-6	215	22	Long Beach State	Sr	ATL to MIA	8

 

Add to this list the draft day trade acquisitions: Lucas Nogiera, Mike Muscala, Lamar Patterson, Taurean Prince.

The best player Bud ever drafted was Dennis Schröder. Prince and Musky are solid pro's. Not even going to mention all the guys we passed on for these projects.

The evidence suggests that Budcox were terrible talent evaluators and overestimated their ability to find and develop talent. JC may have been the best rookie Bud ever coached (Schlenk drafted him) and he still tried to keep him on the bench even though we were clearly tanking that season and he was out playing the scrubs in front of him. 

I honestly give Quin and Bud's assistants the credit for player development and even then it leans heavily towards developing vets more so than rookies. 

That being said, Bud would not have allowed the kind of youth movement that we ended up with, so all of this is moot. 

He was brought here to coach a veteran playoff team that lacked a superstar and get the most out of them.

Trae Young, Cam Reddish, OO, JJ and maybe even AJ would not even be here if Bud had the same draft slots.

Dre and Kev are maybe the only guys that fit in to Bud's prototype and even they may have been too young for his liking.

To his credit, Bud likely would have drafted and kept Luka, but he still would have turned right around and selected Doumboya the next year lol. 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by RedDawg#8

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

If Bud or one of his disciples were here who says we even draft Reddish (or even be in position to draft him).

Bud only ever drafted older college players or extremely raw overseas players. Reddish would not have been his cup of tea. And now that I think about it, out of all of the draftee's in his tenure, who did Bud actually develop in to a good NBA player?

2016	1	21	DeAndre' Bembry	GF	6-5	210	21	Saint Joseph's	Jr *		6
2016	2	44	Isaia Cordinier	G	6-5	197	19	Denain ASC Voltaire (France)	1996 DOB *	ATL to BRK	0
2016	2	54	Kay Felder	PG	5-9	176	21	Oakland	Jr *	ATL to CLE	2
2015	1	15	Kelly Oubre, Jr.	SF	6-6	203	19	Kansas	Fr *	ATL to WAS	8
2015	2	50	Marcus Eriksson	GF	6-7	178	21	BAXI Manresa (Spain)	1993 DOB		0
2015	2	59	Dimitrios Agravanis	F	6-10	210	20	Olympiacos (Greece)	1994 DOB *	ATL to CLE CLE to SAC	0
2014	1	15	Adreian Payne	C	6-10	237	23	Michigan State	Sr		4
2014	2	43	Edy Tavares	C	7-3	265	22	Gran Canaria (Spain)	1992 DOB		2
2013	1	17	Dennis Schröder	PG	6-3	172	19	Basketball Lowen Braunschweig (Germany)	1993 DOB *		10
2013	1	18	Shane Larkin	PG	5-11	175	20	Miami (FL)	So *	ATL to DAL	4
2013	2	47	Raulzinho Neto	PG	6-1	179	21	Acunsa GBC (Spain)	1992 DOB *	ATL to UTH	8
2013	2	50	James Ennis	GF	6-6	215	22	Long Beach State	Sr	ATL to MIA	8

 

Add to this list the draft day trade acquisitions: Lucas Nogiera, Mike Muscala, Lamar Patterson, Taurean Prince.

The best player Bud ever drafted was Dennis Schröder. Prince and Musky are solid pro's. Not even going to mention all the guys we passed on for these projects.

The evidence suggests that Budcox were terrible talent evaluators and overestimated their ability to find and develop talent. JC may have been the best rookie Bud ever coached (Schlenk drafted him) and he still tried to keep him on the bench even though we were clearly tanking that season and he was out playing the scrubs in front of him. 

I honestly give Quin and Bud's assistants the credit for player development and even then it leans heavily towards developing vets more so than rookies. 

That being said, Bud would not have allowed the kind of youth movement that we ended up with, so all of this is moot. 

He was brought here to coach a veteran playoff team that lacked a superstar and get the most out of them.

Trae Young, Cam Reddish, OO, JJ and maybe even AJ would not even be here if Bud had the same draft slots.

Dre and Kev are maybe the only guys that fit in to Bud's prototype.

To his credit, Bud likely would have drafted and kept Luka, but he still would have turned right around and selected Doumboya the next year lol. 

 

We drafted poorly. But develop anyone with an inch of NBA talent. Dennis was developed. Moose (Mike Muscala) was developed. Mike Scott was developed. We developed every roster member to their max. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by NBASupes

[RedDawg#8]

Just now, NBASupes said:

We drafted poorly. But develop anyone with an inch of NBA talent. Dennis was developed. 

Dennis came in with a natural feel for the PnR and speed to get past anyone.

I give Bud some credit for him, it was a great draft pick. I still think Dennis would have been just as good anyways.

[NBASupes]

Just now, RedDawg#8 said:

Dennis came in with a natural feel for the PnR and speed to get past anyone.

I give Bud some credit for him, it was a great draft pick. I still think Dennis would have been just as good anyways.

You replied too quickly. 

[JTB]

I remember reading this article and also recall some of this being talked about during the 60 win season. I have no doubt that Quinn can develop players along with his staff. Those are expectations we knew we were getting with the Quinn hire.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We drafted poorly. But develop anyone with an inch of NBA talent. Dennis was developed. 

Dennis was developed.  Mike Muscala was developed.  Mike Scott was developed.  Taurean Prince was developing.  I have no doubt that Bembry would have developed if he hadn’t had issues with injuries.  
 

[RedDawg#8]

Mike Scott was a 25 year old NBA sophomore when Bud got here.

Scott (25),  Moose (22), Prince (22) were all older players with 4 years of college experience/development. They had a lot more BBIQ entering the NBA than young rookies like a Trae or Cam did. 

They were low floor, low ceiling type players. And most of what he taught them were to just shoot more 3’s. Moose and Scott were big men who never developed an inside game. Prince never really picked up his defense until after he left us. 

I give more credit for Dennis because he was young and more “raw” entering the NBA, but again, that kid was already running a better high pick and roll than anyone on the team as a rookie in summer league, so that came with him from overseas.

Point remains, Cam would not be here if Bud was here. He would not touch a prospect like that with a 10ft pole. Same with Trae. We would definitely be watching Luka in a Hawks jersey. 

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Mike Scott was a 25 year old NBA sophomore when Bud got here.

Scott (25),  Moose (22), Prince (22) were all older players with 4 years of college experience/development. They had a lot more BBIQ entering the NBA than young rookies like a Trae or Cam did. 

They were low floor, low ceiling type players. And most of what he taught them were to just shoot more 3’s. Moose and Scott were big men who never developed an inside game. Prince never really picked up his defense until after he left us. 

I give more credit for Dennis because he was young and more “raw” entering the NBA, but again, that kid was already running a better high pick and roll than anyone on the team as a rookie in summer league, so that came with him from overseas.

Point remains, Cam would not be here if Bud was here. He would not touch a prospect like that with a 10ft pole. Same with Trae. We would definitely be watching Luka in a Hawks jersey. 

While you make a good point with Bud, Quin developed players in Utah too when Corbin who he replaced didn't. 

It was a young team with all types of young players.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2015.html

Edited July 2, 2023 by NBASupes

[RedDawg#8]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

While you make a good point with Bud, Quin developed players in Utah too when Corbin who he replaced didn't. 

It was a young team with all types of young players.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2015.html

I won’t argue against Quin. I give him all the credit anyways.