I've been watching the 2024 NBA Draft class and it's been... weaker than usual

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Both guys who hustle. Both probably 2-3 year projects before reaching a top 9 rotation on the roster though. 

Yep. If they ever reach it at all. Sam job isn't to put a mock that makes sense for the team, it's to add talent that he thinks could be worthy of this selection in 3-4 years. 

You would honestly do better listening to fans of the Hawks who do the draft than national guys if it's just in regards to the Hawks. You gotta remember. We actually watch the Hawks. They don't 

I know it sounds crazy but I take Simon, @KB21, or any fan in our base opinion more seriously on what the Hawks need to do than anyone like Sam Vecenie or any national guy. 

Asking me who watch two Bulls games all year and even then, not fully is idiotic. You can ask me about prospects who I watched but Asking me what the Bulls should do is idiotic. The Lakers, I've watched a lot so I have an idea. 

Edited March 19 by NBASupes

[KB21]

You know who may have the singular most elite trait of all the potential prospects in this draft?

Ryan Dunn with his defense.  That guy is ELITE defensively.  You can put him on the floor immediately and get contributions from him defensively in the NBA.  He understands rotations.  He's active with his feet and hands.  He can guard multiple positions.  His defense is ELITE.

His offense is the complete opposite.  You have to trust your development staff to build him up as an offensive player.  With that said, I do believe Quin has a staff in place that can coach up his offense.  He's a definite on my list of potential Hawks draft picks because of his defense.  I can't justify it at 9 or 10, but if the Kings' pick lands in the 19-20 area, that's a sweet spot for him.

I'm somewhat envisioning a Donovan Clingan/Ryan Dunn combo in the draft because both of those guys can defend in the NBA right now.

[KB21]

At one point in the game last night, this is what Colorado State did when Dunn was on the floor vs when he was off the floor:

 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You know who may have the singular most elite trait of all the potential prospects in this draft?

Ryan Dunn with his defense.  That guy is ELITE defensively.  You can put him on the floor immediately and get contributions from him defensively in the NBA.  He understands rotations.  He's active with his feet and hands.  He can guard multiple positions.  His defense is ELITE.

His offense is the complete opposite.  You have to trust your development staff to build him up as an offensive player.  With that said, I do believe Quin has a staff in place that can coach up his offense.  He's a definite on my list of potential Hawks draft picks because of his defense.  I can't justify it at 9 or 10, but if the Kings' pick lands in the 19-20 area, that's a sweet spot for him.

I'm somewhat envisioning a Donovan Clingan/Ryan Dunn combo in the draft because both of those guys can defend in the NBA right now.

He's so freaking bad offensively. He's the best prospect I've seen defensively on the perimeter out of college. But he makes Vit looks like Magic Johnson offensively 

I am way too skeptical on his offense to consider in the the 1st round. In fact, I have moved him to tier 5 for the future. I was sky high on him early in the process but I was just focusing on the good. 

Edited March 20 by NBASupes

[KB21]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

He's so freaking bad offensively. He's the best prospect I've seen defensively on the perimeter out of college. But he makes Vit looks like Magic Johnson offensively 

I don't disagree.  Defensively, he's the big wing that can defend 2-4 that this team needs.  Offensively, eh, needs major work.  

[KB21]

I think I'm at that point to where I don't want the Hawks to draft anyone that has questionable defense.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

I don't disagree.  Defensively, he's the big wing that can defend 2-4 that this team needs.  Offensively, eh, needs major work.  

He is amazing defensive. My goodness. Amazing. What makes him special he's reactive but instinctive. Most are either or, he's both. He's special. I just wish he was more than a rim runner. Maybe he could be like a Bruce Brown once he develops. He can finish. 

[KB21]

I'm curious if you have seen this guy yet, @NBASupes, but a guy who could be a late 2nd round buy pick or an UDFA that can flat out defend and brings a few other things to the table is Cam Matthews at Mississippi State.  He can't shoot a lick and can't shoot free throws well, but Mississippi State has this guy initiating the offense late in games.  He will bring the ball up.  Defensively, he's not at Ryan Dunn's level, but he's just a level below.  He's a fantastic defensive player.  He rebounds.  He will get into the scrum and do the little things.  He's athletic as hell.  He's got a JYD mentality.  

 

[KB21]

 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I think I'm at that point to where I don't want the Hawks to draft anyone that has questionable defense.

I feel you, I am moreso against less experienced players. If you aren't a sophomore or older, I really don't want you. JJ was our only win betting on OAD. They are just too risky. I prefer knowing what I am getting, especially IQ wise. Dunn has the necessary mental acuity. So while I wouldn't mind him in the 20s, I am not in love with him but I can understand if you are and anyone for that matter. We need a game changing perimeter defender. We just need them to be able to shoot 3s as well. 

Shooting worse than Vit ain't really good for us. 

[KB21]

 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I'm curious if you have seen this guy yet, @NBASupes, but a guy who could be a late 2nd round buy pick or an UDFA that can flat out defend and brings a few other things to the table is Cam Matthews at Mississippi State.  He can't shoot a lick and can't shoot free throws well, but Mississippi State has this guy initiating the offense late in games.  He will bring the ball up.  Defensively, he's not at Ryan Dunn's level, but he's just a level below.  He's a fantastic defensive player.  He rebounds.  He will get into the scrum and do the little things.  He's athletic as hell.  He's got a JYD mentality.  

 

Only once and that was against Tennessee. I did notice him but I haven't exactly scouted him. I'll keep an eye on him. I know you are a keen Mississippi State fan, what's your scout of him?

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

 

Houston has insane overall defense so their individual numbers are skewed but Snead is a player I really like as an UDFA signing. 

[KB21]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Only once and that was against Tennessee. I did notice him but I haven't exactly scouted him. I'll keep an eye on him. I know you are a keen Mississippi State fan, what's your scout of him?

Great athlete.  I think he could play TE if he were to ever try football.  There is an interesting dichotomy with him.  He brings the ball up late in games, but he's not a good free throw shooter.  So in tight games, he gets fouled and the rest is an adventure.  However, in almost all other situations, he makes very good decisions when he initiates the offense.  Mississippi State does a lot of that so they can run Josh Hubbard off screens and get him the ball.  

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Houston has insane overall defense so their individual numbers are skewed but Snead is a player I really like as an UDFA signing. 

Me too!  The Hawks need some guys who are just going to get after it defensively, even if you have to develop the offense some.  

[KB21]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I feel you, I am moreso against less experienced players. If you aren't a sophomore or older, I really don't want you. JJ was our only win betting on OAD. They are just too risky. I prefer knowing what I am getting, especially IQ wise. Dunn has the necessary mental acuity. So while I wouldn't mind him in the 20s, I am not in love with him but I can understand if you are and anyone for that matter. We need a game changing perimeter defender. We just need them to be able to shoot 3s as well. 

Shooting worse than Vit ain't really good for us. 

This has pretty much always been my view.  Potential doesn't mean much to me.  The "young" players that I have supported drafting for the Hawks (Trae, JJJ...etc) all produced in college at elite levels as freshmen.  The "young" players I didn't like (Cam Reddish) didn't produce as freshmen in college.  I favor players who have ability and production.  Going back to the 2019 draft, I admittedly loved the DeAndre Hunter pick.  It hasn't worked out as well as I felt it would, but I think some of that is due to injury and some is due to the fact that he didn't have good developmental coaching in his first 3 years.  My guy at the Cam Reddish pick was Brandon Clarke though.  I saw him as a potential replacement for John Collins had they appropriately traded him before his value tanked.  Clarke was a much better defensive prospect than Collins, and I felt like Clarke had some inherent shooting ability that would develop.  

[NBASupes]

I keep telling people, this is the best upperclassmen draft since the 1999 draft class. It's not just the because of the extra COVID year but with NIL, players can afford training with pro trainers. It's basically improved development of players beyond their normal development patterns. We are seeing college players progress more than ever before. 

Edited March 20 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

25 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Great athlete.  I think he could play TE if he were to ever try football.  There is an interesting dichotomy with him.  He brings the ball up late in games, but he's not a good free throw shooter.  So in tight games, he gets fouled and the rest is an adventure.  However, in almost all other situations, he makes very good decisions when he initiates the offense.  Mississippi State does a lot of that so they can run Josh Hubbard off screens and get him the ball.  

Me too!  The Hawks need some guys who are just going to get after it defensively, even if you have to develop the offense some.  

Good info

[AHF]

44 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Great athlete.  I think he could play TE if he were to ever try football.  There is an interesting dichotomy with him.  He brings the ball up late in games, but he's not a good free throw shooter.  So in tight games, he gets fouled and the rest is an adventure.  However, in almost all other situations, he makes very good decisions when he initiates the offense.  Mississippi State does a lot of that so they can run Josh Hubbard off screens and get him the ball.  

That description sounds like he might have some overlap with for UK forward Chuck Hayes.  Tight end body; strong defender; good enough passer to initiate the offense; bad free throw shooter; etc.

[NBASupes]

 

 

[KB21]

With two picks probable in this draft, it is going to be interesting to see what direction the Hawks go.  Thinking back to the 2021 draft, they drafted Jalen Johnson knowing that the immediate impact would not be there.  It was their intent to nurture him and bring him along slowly.  That has worked now that he has a real NBA head coach and a legitimate developmental staff nurturing him.  

In 2022, from everything I have been able to gather, their target/guy they wanted to draft was Jalen Williams from Santa Clara.  Jalen was a small school prospect, but he was a seasoned college player.  I think he was a guy they saw as a potential immediate contributor.  

In 2023, from everything I have been able to gather, Kobe Bufkin was the guy they wanted.  There was some Derek Lively talk, but it seems that Kobe Bufkin was their target all along.  Kobe is somewhere between Jalen and Jalen.  He's not as raw coming out as Jalen Johnson was, but he wasn't as ready to contribute immediately as Jalen Williams was.  

If they go the nurturing route, then I wonder if they are in on Jalen's brother Cody Williams.  The guy has no chance to contribute in a meaningful fashion in the NBA next year, but he's got tools to work with.  He's the upside play that I typically don't jump up and down for, but the upside is there.  He strikes me as a potential Cam Reddish type pick...a guy who is drafted based off his talent and not his production or a combination of the two.  However, Jalen Johnson was that type of pick to me as well.  Trey Murphy was my guy in that draft, and I will gladly admit that I was wrong in my assessment there.