Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[KB21]

Just for a reference point, the Hawks under Quin this season are the 4th fastest paced team in the NBA.  

[Mikey]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

We agree to disagree. 

You made it clear you don't like him as you said they are 5 bigs you would take over him.

I made it very clear I like him. He is #1 on my Hawks big board. That's not going to change so there is no point to fight about it. 

You think he's low floor, low ceiling. I know he's an excellent player and he's tremendous in areas that greatly benefit a player like Trae. 

Our moves should benefit Trae the most as he is who we need to build around. If you can't agree with that, we will never be on the same page. 

We don't have to agree. You are entitled to your own opinion. This is the draft thread, we shouldn't have to argue. We all have our beliefs. 

Tbf this is an edey thread not a draft thread imo. So the discourse I have is centered on edey 

if he sits at 1 on your board that’s fine to me you make good points for his case but there’s plenty of concern with his game and the hawks landing a top 10 pick to take Zach edey would be an outrageously bad use of assets 

[Mikey]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

I really don't care what his 3/4ths court speed was from a combine test.  He does not play to that pace.  He's very slow in certain actions that require quick movements.  It's the reason he's not going to be a switchable defender at the next level.  It's the reason he's likely going to be a tick slow as the roll man on pick and rolls.  Purdue's pace of play is around 175th in college basketball.  They are one of the slowest paced top 25 teams in the country.  A big reason for that is that you cannot play at a fast pace with Zach Edey getting major minutes on the court.  

I'm not going to disagree about his BBIQ.  I think he's a very smart basketball player whose athletic limitations will limit his overall impact in the NBA.  His defensive limitations and lack of offensive versatility will be very apparent in the NBA.  

Don’t let him tell you you’re wrong lol. Purdue pace is so slow and in the tourney they struggled against significantly smaller and worse teams just cause they got him out in 5 out. He will get played off at the next level very easily

he can only play drop and if they get rid of the defensive 3 he gets some more value but this is not some guy you get with a top 10 pick

18 hours ago, AHF said:

That is fair.  I agree it is the exceptional rookie who really raises the bar for the team outside of filling a fairly limited role.  But the minutes are needed for development in most cases and not getting them can stunt development (or indicate that you've got a dud on your hands).

I want minutes for Kobe and AJ.  Kobe in the NBA the rest of the year.  AJ in the NBA once he has put time into the G-League to get back to himself.

Should certainly be a priority for the hawks. Unfortunately I don’t think that will come for AJ this season 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

I really don't care what his 3/4ths court speed was from a combine test.  He does not play to that pace.  He's very slow in certain actions that require quick movements.  It's the reason he's not going to be a switchable defender at the next level.  It's the reason he's likely going to be a tick slow as the roll man on pick and rolls.  Purdue's pace of play is around 175th in college basketball.  They are one of the slowest paced top 25 teams in the country.  A big reason for that is that you cannot play at a fast pace with Zach Edey getting major minutes on the court.  

I'm not going to disagree about his BBIQ.  I think he's a very smart basketball player whose athletic limitations will limit his overall impact in the NBA.  His defensive limitations and lack of offensive versatility will be very apparent in the NBA.  

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I really don't care what his 3/4ths court speed was from a combine test. 

I do care about his NBA combine testing results as they explain something very clear. He's a freak athlete for 7'4 306 pounds. It shows because does a lot of different actions on both ends of the floor. You can't do any of those actions if you aren't a great athlete or just stand around adding absolutely no value off the ball like Eddy Curry, Pekovic, and Boban. These results mean a lot. It means a lot. It says Gradey d*ck isn't of speed for his height but his shuttle test is off the charts which shows in the NBA. The drill is a tried-and-true way to evaluate any athlete's agility, speed, explosiveness, and change of direction. So yes, they matter and yes, it shows up in Edey's film each damn possession. 

 

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He does not play to that pace.

He doesn't, no one does outside of transition. He does play at a good tempo. He's usually back on time on both offense and defense. He's athletic enough. 

I would like to see him spirit more on both ends, transition for defense and on offense when you aren't in the paint on the perimeter, go leak out full speed, 1v1 against a PG is an easy two points or a FT. 

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 He's very slow in certain actions that require quick movements.  It's the reason he's not going to be a switchable defender at the next level. 

Poor fluidity is a problem that's not going to go away. At the end of the day, you must look at everything. You can't keep focusing on this and being completely dismissive on the obvious. He's a freak athlete for his size. That he can be used and has been used in a shit ton of actions on both ends which even our bigs, especially the former elite movement one can't even do. You can't deny that even if you have to accept that his poor fluidity limits things like close-outs, switching, and defending space in general. 

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It's the reason he's likely going to be a tick slow as the roll man on pick and rolls. 

His PnRs move as fast as anyone on our team outside of Okongwu. JC was the fastest who didn't screen anywhere, he slips everything.

 

 

 

 

 

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Purdue's pace of play is around 175th in college basketball.  They are one of the slowest paced top 25 teams in the country. 

A big reason for that is that you cannot play at a fast pace with Zach Edey getting major minutes on the court.  

And look how efficient it is: https://evanmiya.com/?homepage

That last sentence is loaded and garbage. Nothing factual about it at all. Purdue runs at a slower pace because it works for them via PPP. That's why. 

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I'm not going to disagree about his BBIQ.  I think he's a very smart basketball player whose athletic limitations will limit his overall impact in the NBA.  His defensive limitations and lack of offensive versatility will be very apparent in the NBA.  

It's not just BBIQ or Josh Smith would have a case. It's elite BBIQ + elite feel for the game + elite awareness. That's significantly different. 

Fluidity is a major cap but he's a freak athlete for his size. He's running a shit ton of actions. You can't do that with athletically limited players regardless of size. 

His defensive strengths are rim and paint protection and being a plus rebounder. Rim and paint protection is what every NBA team needs right? He provides that at a game-changing level. He changes the geometry of the floor on defense. Yes, he has defensive limitations but it's not ones like Trae. He has ones that you can still effectively play the game defensively with. 

Offensively versatility matters but does it for what we need at the 5? Trae is the ultimate creator. Edey is an elite helper and possibly if the marriage happens, the ultimate helper. That shit just works. Edey is always moving. Edey is always fighting for position and moving. Always resetting and screening, then cutting, then screening, then posting up and fighting for position while always moving and never stopping once. For someone like Trae, that's always having a bailout option. That's massive my friend. Not to mention, we have seen his pro day, Edey can shoot the 3. That will help spacing as well. 

I think what you want is for you to agree with me. I don't want that at all. I want you to continue to like what you like. If that's Clingan, that's fine with me. I just want you to see what I see. That's all. If you can see that, then you understand what I am saying. Then we are making sense to each other even if we value different things and different prospects overall. That's all. 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Just for a reference point, the Hawks under Quin this season are the 4th fastest paced team in the NBA.  

And how has that worked? 

This year: 9th in offense and 30th in defense. 

Last Year: 9th pace - 7th on offense - 22nd on D

Nate final full season - 20th pace - 2nd on offense, 26th on defense -

LP fired and Nate hired ECF year - 23rd in pace - 8th on offense - 21st on defense  -

2019-20 - 5th in pace - 26th on offense 27th on defense,

LP first year plus Trae - 1st in pace - 23rd on offense - 27th on D. 

Playing fast sucks for us. Trae ain't no floor general with limited feel for the game and no one else is really good enough as a self-creator to play without Trae. We play fast, we just give up too many transition points and points in the paint. What's the purpose? 

We need to slow it down. We need a big who can play with Trae and always know what Trae is thinking like an elite WR as if it's Aaron Rodgers and Devante Adams or Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. We need that type of connection for Trae. 

I believe Edey is the way to go for that answer. 

[NBASupes]

@KB21 

Via Evan Miya, Alabama plays at the 8th fastest pace right, what happened when they played Purdue

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401577643/alabama-purdue

9th is Arizona, what happened to Arizona? 

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401577644/arizona-purdue

 

 

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

And how has that worked? 

This year: 9th in offense and 30th in defense. 

Last Year: 9th pace - 7th on offense - 22nd on D

Nate final full season - 20th pace - 2nd on offense, 26th on defense -

LP fired and Nate hired ECF year - 23rd in pace - 8th on offense - 21st on defense  -

2019-20 - 5th in pace - 26th on offense 27th on defense,

LP first year plus Trae - 1st in pace - 23rd on offense - 27th on D. 

Playing fast sucks for us. Trae ain't no floor general with limited feel for the game and no one else is really good enough as a self-creator to play without Trae. We play fast, we just give up too many transition points and points in the paint. What's the purpose? 

We need to slow it down. We need a big who can play with Trae and always know what Trae is thinking like an elite WR as if it's Aaron Rodgers and Devante Adams or Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. We need that type of connection for Trae. 

I believe Edey is the way to go for that answer. 

We will be so bad defensively and have no spacing on offense with Edey.  

[AHF]

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JC was the fastest who didn't screen anywhere, he slips everything.

This was a major frustration for me with JC because it wasn't a limitation of his like his handle, etc.   It was a choice to very rarely screen.  He is a very effective role man so no problem with him rolling a lot but mix it up a bit my guy!  (I know this is OT but this sentence from Supes post got me nodding along with him.  I haven't watched enough Edey to weight in on his game / physical ability.)

[NBASupes]

Just now, KB21 said:

We will be so bad defensively and have no spacing on offense with Edey.  

BS

So we have a tremendous paint protector and rim protector who's a plus rebounder and we are going to be what on defense? Seriously? Come on man, seriously? 

Spacing? That's literally the purpose of having elite movement bigs. Even helps the other guys you like in Clingan or Missi. They help with spacing even if they can't shoot because of their screens, their movement off the ball, etc. Then you add to the fact that Edey is even more than just that. He provides an elite feel for the game with a tremendous motor. He is always moving, always cutting, always fighting for position, and working to establish elite position, how do you think he draws so many fouls? Come on man. And on top of that, he has a shooting touch that could be unleashed at the NBA level. Come man, this is just f***ing awful. It's like you heard nothing I've said

Look at this shooting touch bro, seriously

 

[JayBirdHawk]

44 minutes ago, Mikey said:

......this is not some guy you get with a top 10 pick

After reviewing most of the videos and reading all the arguments for and against. This is where I'm at....I can't say I will be comfortable taking him top 10.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

This was a major frustration for me with JC because it wasn't a limitation of his like his handle, etc.   It was a choice to very rarely screen.  He is a very effective role man so no problem with him rolling a lot but mix it up a bit my guy!  (I know this is OT but this sentence from Supes post got me nodding along with him.  I haven't watched enough Edey to weight in on his game / physical ability.)

He doesn't have the physicality so it wasn't just a choice. He used to roids for a reason. He just wasn't strong enough. Edey was a hockey defenseman. You can see he loves contact. He obviously loves it.  

[KB21]

So, you are saying that the NBA is completely missing the boat on Zach Edey.  That everyone in the NBA is wrong because he was in the process last year and chose to go back to Purdue because he wasn't going to be drafted high.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

After reviewing most of the videos and reading all the arguments for and against. This is where I'm at....I can't say I will be comfortable taking him top 10.

I have zero issue with this statement if we didn't have a Harden. But we do and we have the one that is most dependent on a center as he uses it as the extension of his own game. 

How I see Edey, if you don't care about Trae and are drafting with the idea that this is for the next 10 years, draft upside. Reed Sheppard, Collier, Castle, etc. 

That said, if you are drafting with Trae in mind, which prospect gives us the best shot of winning and turning this team around? There is no other choice that makes sense anywhere close to Edey other than running to the podium and drafting Edey in this draft. 

At the end of the day, the last prospects like Edey who were excellent players in college and upperclassmen were Cameron Johnson and Brandon Clarke. Both didn't have a prototype of themselves before themselves. Each one has been producing in the NBA at a high rate. 

Would I draft Clarke or Johnson in the top 10 as prospects, probably not. That said, their value has been overly that. Clarke - top 5 in his class. Johnson - top 5 in his class. 

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So, you are saying that the NBA is completely missing the boat on Zach Edey.  That everyone in the NBA is wrong because he was in the process last year and chose to go back to Purdue because he wasn't going to be drafted high.

Are they: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/38788364/2024-nba-draft-rankings-espn-top-25-prospects

Seems like they aren't much different than me on him. 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Are they: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/38788364/2024-nba-draft-rankings-espn-top-25-prospects

Seems like they aren't much different than me on him. 

I don't have access. Can you post his ranking and the snippet. Thanks.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't have access. Can you post his ranking and the snippet. Thanks.

Spoiler

15. Zach Edey | C | Purdue

7-4 | Age: 21.8 | Previously ranked: 14

 

One of the more unique storylines to follow going into March and, ultimately, the draft will be whether Edey can anchor a deep Purdue tournament run and which teams will deem his unique set of strengths worth the pick. The other salient question is where in the draft it becomes a positive value proposition to select a throwback big of his ilk. Some things will clearly translate: Edey is dominant within five feet of the basket, offers more mobility than most players his size and is extremely tough and competitive. But the pace of NBA games and emphasis on space and attacking matchups make him an acquired taste for some, due to questions about how well it translates to an expanded role. His unique profile might help transcend the mold. -- Woo

Got cha.

Edited March 5 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, NBASupes said:

  Hide contents

15. Zach Edey | C | Purdue

7-4 | Age: 21.8 | Previously ranked: 14

 

One of the more unique storylines to follow going into March and, ultimately, the draft will be whether Edey can anchor a deep Purdue tournament run and which teams will deem his unique set of strengths worth the pick. The other salient question is where in the draft it becomes a positive value proposition to select a throwback big of his ilk. Some things will clearly translate: Edey is dominant within five feet of the basket, offers more mobility than most players his size and is extremely tough and competitive. But the pace of NBA games and emphasis on space and attacking matchups make him an acquired taste for some, due to questions about how well it translates to an expanded role. His unique profile might help transcend the mold. -- Woo

 

Thanks. A couple things that stand out:

1.  A unique set of strengths

2.  At what range should you draft a throw back big

3. Operates and effective within only 5 feet of the basket. 

4. Pace of games, space and attacking matchups and how it works if he's given an expanding role.

As I look at tapes of his PnR, he's slow...yes Trae is the perfect lob thrower, my concern would be how quickly NBAers with more size and speed will get to the spot before Edey does, limiting the effectiveness. Yes, his height would/can alleviate some of that, but I have my concerns.

His foot speed on the perimeter guarding PnR on switches would be the biggest concern.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Thanks. A couple things that stand out:

As I look at tapes of his PnR, he's slow...yes Trae is the perfect lob thrower, my concern would be how quickly NBAers with more size and speed will get to the spot before Edey does, limiting the effectiveness. Yes, his height would/can alleviate some of that, but I have my concerns.

His foot speed on the perimeter guarding PnR on switches would be the biggest concern.

I'll address your section: 

First, let's remember Trae is a PnR maestro, there are always a lot of options for Trae:

Getting there quicker is not the issue because he has elite body control for his size and he's a tremendous finisher and draws fouls at an uncanny rate. Once he's there with his size, you are essentially done. Let's say it's Okongwu guarding him who's one of the fastest bigs in the NBA. Trae and Edey are running the PnR like this below: Trae can get the ball to Edey while OO has him stopped not under the basket but at the basket. That for Edey is still checkmate zone. You must remember, he is 7'4 306, strong, and athlete and he doesn't have to put the ball down to score. On top of that, he's smart and knows how to bait and draw fouls with ease. He's not just going to throw some shit up. He has elite BBIQ, awareness, and feel for the game. He can adjust to what the defender is showing him. That said, Trae can also just see the guard overplaying Edey and pass it to a wide-open Bey, Hunter, or Murray for 3. As I've said, Trae is a PnR genius. In one of the videos, it said what makes Trae so elite at the PnR is his ability to score at an elite rate out of it. When you add a screen setter, finisher, movement specialist, and someone with elite feel for the game like Edey, it opens options we haven't had in Atlanta for Trae out of the PnR.  

 

Guarding from the perimeter is not the problem I've seen on his tape. It's switching that is. Anytime his arms are at shoulder level and higher, his fluidity issues don't get in the way but when it's at the hip or down, it's like he's fighting gravity to get it up which shows up on switches, rebounding radius, and close-outs defensively. 

 

[AHF]

52 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So, you are saying that the NBA is completely missing the boat on Zach Edey.  That everyone in the NBA is wrong because he was in the process last year and chose to go back to Purdue because he wasn't going to be drafted high.

If you buy that NBA mocks reflect what the media is hearing from scouts, I would say the NBA is all over the map on him.  Some have him as a late lottery or midround first, some have him in the second round, etc.  It is a much more volatile scouting profile than you usually see in a player of the year type of player.  (I will also say that this isn't unique to him as the mocks this year have much more variety than I'm used to seeing.)

[KB21]

 

 

[Mikey]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

After reviewing most of the videos and reading all the arguments for and against. This is where I'm at....I can't say I will be comfortable taking him top 10.

You don’t have to worry cause not one team will