Knicks fan from RealGM analyzes our players.......

[Admin]

this is from NYNEX on the NY Knicks board on RealGM. He did a great job of breaking down our players involved in this deal and will be coming over later this afternoon to give us the scoop on some Knicks players and who he thinks might make the deal fair for everyone.

In reply to:

---

How Can I put this subtly?

Pull the f'in trigger already.

Fellas, this is a prime example of how teams spin doctor themselves out of situations they know are arising.....jeez, I have so much to say, i dont know where to start. Let me start simply from a player personnel angle:

NAZR MOHAMMED:

6'10 C.....10 years ago that would mean he is undersized...but in this new NBA, 6-10 is good enough.

PROS: The good thing about Nazr is he doesnt play small....he does bang down low and he is a pretty good rebounder, on both ends of the floor. His offense includes a modest arsenal of post moves (nothing that will give Shaq fits, but enough to every once in a school the likes of Campbell, Divac, AD, and other second and third tier centers), and a medium range jumper thats good enough to make teams somewhat respect him.

CONS: Nazr has bad hands.....the guy just cant catch the ball cleanly in the post and off the dump off. If you've ever seen Dikembe Mutombo down low on offesne, its much like that: he has to be spoon fed to catch the ball and finish...which brings us to our next Naz shortcoming: he doesnt always finish strong. He has a horrible habit of pump faking whenever he gets the dump off down low....then getting fouled and not making the bucket. I guess its neat that he gets foul calls, and he isnt a bad FT shooter, but he almost never gets the three point play.

Also, he has this thing where he never dunks with two hands. Its always a one handed dunk....to the point where it looks awkward. Some might say a dunk is a dunk, but....dunking with 2 hands is a higher % shot. On defense, Nazr is mediocre at best, and he is a terrible shotblocker. I dont care what his stats are, the guy just doesnt have shotblocking prowess. He is a big strong body, but I've seen him get abused by people who have no business abusing anyone anymore (i.e. Hakeem).....this is due to another downfall: Nazr loses his concentration for stretches and just floats around. There will be stretches when you will really hate his a**, where the media and the fans will be like "what a bum!"...but just when yo think you've reached the pinnacle of disgust, he'll come in and give you 17 and 17 and even toss a couple of shots....its weird

SALARY:

02-03 $4,750,000

03-04 $5,000,000

04-05 $5,250,000

05-06 $5,500,000

Considering the average starting center makes 7.5 million...I guess you could call him a bargain.

OVERALL: he's a lot like a tall kurt Thomas, only instead of starting slow and finishing strong in the season, Nazr has spells of underachieving spread evenly thru-out....in the end, He's still better than any big man we got....

ALAN HENDERSON:

Next.....nah, I'm just playing I think i'll review him. 6'10 PF

PROS: He's from indiana U, played for Bobby knight, so you know he got the fundamentals. Footwork, OK rebounding, likes to use the glass for his short range jumpers. Not a shabby few post moves. He'll make for a pretyty good bench weapon every now and then.

OK, thats enough on that.

CONS: I'll make it short and sweet. This guy is the second coming of Charles Smith: COMPLETELY HEARTLESS. as long as he is cutting his big a** check he really doesnt care.....people walk up to him in Atlanta all the time in te streets and question his heart. The guy is just a bitch (on a personal level too, he thinks he just huigher up than everyone else). And since he wanna be a doctor and go to medical school, I guess he likes internships because he spend a lot of time on the IL. Some think a change os scenery might do him well: HELL NO. The man is a big bitch. He is the typical guy we hate Layden for: Overpiad, and plays like crap, even though you know at some point in their career they was actually worth a damn. i hate Alan Henderson. I hate him. I hate him. i cant stand the thought of him being a Knick. I hate him.

SALARY:

02-03 $7,091,250

03-04 $7,682,188

04-05 $8,273,125

A few years ago, the stigma about this guy was how loooooong his contract was. Its still pretty long, and he is WAYYY overpaid, and there dont appear to be any options on it, but I think he would be down for a buy out or a medical retirement in a couple of years...as long as he gets his money, this bitch-a** doesnt care. Of course we;re stuck with 8 mill on the books, but as been said before, we aint under the cap anytime soon anyways.

OVERALL: I hate alan henderson.....to show the extent of how much i hate him, he wears number 44....same number as Travis. If it came down to who is more deserving, I go with travis every time. But he is a necessary evil for this dela to go down. Give him the David Wingate cheerleader seat.

JASON TERRY:

Finally....the meat and potatoes. 6'2 POINT GUARD (but really closer to 6-0.5)

PROS: Dont get it twisted: Jason Terry is a point guard. Jason Terry is a GOOD point guard. The thing about JT is when he first came into the league, he was young and he wanst ready to handle point duties because he tried too hard....so they moved him to off-guard to get his offense flowing...from there he would get his teammates involved.

For about a year, they tried to find an Aaron Mckie/Eric Snow type player to get next to JT who could handle the rock and guard SG's.....they signed Emmanual Davis because of this. Midway thru the season (around January), Davis goes down for the year, leabving Jacque Vaughn and JT to handle point duties. After running a midget backcourt for a while the Hawks decided to try starting JT at point. What a great decision.

In the 4 months playing point (JAN, FEB, MAR, APR), JT averaged 6.5, 5.3, 6.9, 7.8 assist per game in 50 games of action. Fir those keeping score at home, thats about 6.5, 7 assist per game. And these are not misleading stats. Terry is an excellent ball handler, peneterator and passer. He gets to the hole almost at will, and is very very quick. Although skinny looking, he is deceptively strong and finishes strong at the basket (I've seen him DUNK game winners in traffic).

All this is beautiful, until you consider he is a great midrange jump shooter.....a lost art, this guy looks like he watched allan houston videos...he is great at finding his midrange jumper and even better at knocking it down. Add to that he is a close to 40% 3 point shooter and you have the complete offensive package.

Fellas, this guy aint no frank williams. He is the real deal. Probably the best thing about JT is he is confident yet humble....he can take over a game if need be, but he udnerstands the pecking order, and will not give you problems. an all-round nice guy, he is great with fans.....but he still has that killer instinct on the floor, kinda like a Gary payton.

I could talk about his 2 steals a game average , or about how clutch he is and all that, or how he is great with the media, but this is dragging...the guy is good dammit.

CONS: While his statistical defense might look nice, JT gambles a little too much on defense. also, sinc ehe is almost always the smallest guy on the court, he is susceptible to being posted up. Sometimes it takes him a while to understand that nobody else is having a good night and recognize he needs to take over a game. Honestly on the offensive end, its hard to find flaws.

SALARY:

02-03 $2,153,934

03-04 $2,933,658 (qualifying offer)

JT is up for an extension.....the good news is he isnt asking for the MAX. The bad news is we beter lock him up for (relatively) cheap NOW before he blows up...because if he blows up in NY, well DAMN....

OVERALL: In the immortal words of the Big Secret, this guy is an All-Star on the rise. Jasn Terry is the point guard we've been looking for all this time. if the proposed deal is indeed on the table, then we HAVE to take it. It is the best available deal that will ever present itself for the package of Spree and Othella.

SO...you might ask if JT is so damn good a PG, why are they trading him?

This is whjere the spin doctoring comes in.

Atlanta cannot afford to give JT the money he wants....they already locked into Shareef, Kukoc, and Ratliff long term, and the tax is always looming. They simply cant afford to keep jason terry. Yeah Spree makes a boatload, but his contract wont last 6 or 7 years like terry's extension.

At the same time, the Hawks dont wanna come across as a "cheap" franchise, who wont pay players who earned it. So they send all these messages about Jason Terry not being a point guard and all. Dont be fooled...they are just covering their asses.

What I cant understand is their willingness to let go of Naz...they must really think Ratliff is ready. Big gamble, if you ask me.

OK fellas, this was another one of those hour long posts. so let me know!

---

[Hawksfreak]

Please god this trade wont be made!

[jaywalker72]

NYNEX is right on the money...He goes to every Hawks game, so he can speak to the Knicks fans.

He KNOWS this is a no-brainer for the Knicks, just a we know we would have LOST our brains if this trade goes down.

If we are thinking about the financial part of not keeping JT, then I will seriously look at cutting my ties with them.

If they think they can make our team weaker long term to save a buck or two, Bitterman, then I have to take that as a slap in my face.

While I still pass it off as classic NY rumor-mongering, this trade or any similar "old guy for JT" trade cannot happen.

[ATLien_]

Its's funny even a Knicks fan can see how good JT really is when some of our own people think he is not a PG. This guy sounds like he is about to nut up about getting JT.

Someone better get on Ask Gm or email Babcock fast before he does something incredibly stupid. As a matter of fact send this Knicks fans post with it.

[Guest]

I use to think it so...

Maybe in that we don't want to pay JT anything of 5 million...

However, I was looking at it and Toni and JT's contract end at the same time.... So also does Glover's contract.

That said..... I don't think it's a financial.

I think that it's ability. He's not really a top level PG and we just picked one up in DD. DD is not at JT's level yet, but he will pass him.

[SWOLEHAWK]

[Hawksfreak]

To be honest I think JT deserves the max because he wants to stay for a while and so does eveyone else. JT gives us scoring,passing,and leadershit to go along with Reef's leadership. If we do trade him this will be a major loss to the franchise and will have to make us start all over again.

[Guest]

I'd wager that JT does NOT want the max:

1) he knows he's not quite in that caliber, having never made an all-star team and/ or not being a center (the only way to circumvent that).

2) he's a team player and wants to win. While I'm sure he wants to "get his due," getting the max, unless you can REALLY carry the team is retarded, as all it will do is limit the team's options in free agency and hinder any forward progress (see GS and Jamison).

I've said it before, I think he'll get an offer around 6 years,70 million or so...a great contract, and while I'm not sure, probably equal to or more than any other team can offer him as we have his Bird rights. That being said, I think we should give JT just that, the max that he could command from another team, maybe a hair higher.

[Guest]

Get off Dickau's nu8ts.He sucks.Just because he put up

numbers at tsome rinky dink college doesn't mean any

thing.This guy is Jacque Vaughn JR.If this trade goes down

we have two guys Dickau/Dermarr Johnson that cleary

have no business in the starting lineup.

This trade blows,all we get is a decling player to help

pull a couple of thug fans in downtown Atlanta.

Trade blows,we do it and we deserve to lose and I will

laugh again at the a;lack of future we would have in

two years.Dermarr Johnson and Dion aren't ever gunna

be good enough to replace what JT gives us.We Spree

is old we are stuck again with no second wheel because

we know that this francise doesn't have the ability to draw

FA's.

Dickau is the great white hope and if we do this trade Dickau

nor Spree have my support in the slighest little bit.

[Traceman]

I think the Knicks would make out like bandits in this deal. Despite the fact that he's overpaid, Hendu can provide them pretty much the same thing Harrington can and Nazr is better than anyone they currently have at Center. The Hawks seriously might lose me as a fan if they do this deal. I see no upside to the deal AT ALL.

Even if we were going to trade JT for an upgrade at SG or SF, the deal should be done for a young up and coming type guy not some guy on the downside of his career.

The funny thing is this though. If NY really things JT can land Miller, if we were looking to trade JT because he's not a PG, why wouldn't WE go after Miller? I'd rather have Miller than Spree any day! In addition, why couldn't we do a 3-way with LAC? JT/filler to CLE, Miller/filler to LAC and Odom/Wilcox/maybe McInnis to us?

[Admin]

I was thinking exactly the same thing.......check out the 3 way that I proposed in the trade forum and let me know what you think bro..........one of the Cavs main posters says that he would do it as is, but would like an extra first rounder lottery protected from the Clippers, which I am sure they would throw in since they dont need anymore young talent.

[Diesel]

Dude.. learn to interpret.

I'm not on DD's nuts. I don't think he will ever be a better scorer than JT...

However, all the other aspects of being a PG, I think he will be. The comparison is like Andre' Miller vs. Stephon Marbury.

Sure Marbury can score in bunches... But Marbury is not really good for getting his teammate involved. It's all according to what you want. The statement that Dickau will be as good as Vaughn is silly. Just because you are a JT fan doesn't mean you have to down Dickau. I watched him for the last 2 yrs dominate as a college player. And While he still isn't better than JT now, He already has better PG instincts than JT does. But Hell, Every PG we have brought in here has: Maloney, Coles, Vaughn, Knight alll these guys had better instincts than JT...

The difference now is that Babcock realizes that:

1. JT has really good trade value (and could possible get rid of Hendu's contract).

2. We don't need a 20 ppg PG. But we do need a PG that can get everybody else involved.

[chillzatl]

PRojecting JT's 2nd half numbers puts him as a top 10 PG in the NBA. How is that not top level? And that's from only playing the position full time for 1/2 a season!! Those fools in Golden state who believed that Larry Hughes was a point guard would have [censored] their pants if he had ever put up PG numbers that put him in the top 10. How long did they try that project and what exactly did hughes do in it that was worth mentioning? NOTHING. JT was put in a position that sooo many players get put in and totally fail. The difference was that JT improved game by game. He did not fail.

Also saying that DD will pass JT is nonsense. The possibility is there, sure. it's there with any player. But be realistic for about 5 seconds. DD will NEVER have the scoring ability that JT has and he will never have the speed and mobility that JT has. Projecting that a guy who slipped to the last spot in the first round will be better than a 20/6/2 guy who is actually doing it today is a bit much.

[Guest]

Diesel, if we trade JT, we will need a 20 ppg scorer in return, otherwise who's going to keep other teams from sagging back on SAR?

Theo = 12 ppg; good for mostly putbacks and garbage work, say 12 ppg.

SAR = 22 ppg; Can create his own shot to a degree, but poor ball handler and has trouble at times passing out of the double, esp. the triple, team.

Ira? = 12 ppg; can't hit a three, certainly not a threat to keep defenses honest. Mid range jumper is as far as he can go...

SG = ? DerMarr...can't create own shot as of yet, mediocre catch and shoot skills, can knock down an open three when feet are set.

Dion = 17ppg; not a great 3pt shooter, but has some range, good hopes, and explosive ability to drive to the hole (but if defenses are sagging, that positive is lost).

DD - 12-14 ppg?; a rookie with range, but still a rookie.

that lineup scares the hell out of me...granted it doesn't include anyone taht we might get in a trade, I'm just trying to illustrate the point that we would definitely need someone who could create their own shot and hit from the perimeter.

[Diesel]

Before you criticize.. You have to answer that question of WHO....

For instance. If we say Odom.

I see 18 ppg, 6 apg, 6 rpg.

It's not JT, but in a way it'sbetter than JT. Like I said before DD is not a better scorer than JT but DD + Odom will be much better than JT+DD.

For instance what if we make a bigger trade for say Battier/Lo.

While Lo would come off the bench...

Battier is capable of being solid and reliable on offense and his defense puts the NEWBILEZER to shame. Because he can block shots and steal.

For INstance... What if we went with my trade of the day:

JT/Nazr/Toni/Hendu for DD/Bonzi/Stoudamire.

While I hate Stoudamire's contract... i realize that Bonzi is a 20 ppg player waiting to happen. DD is a good man to bring off the bench. Stoudamire is a 16/8 PG when he's not playing for PTL.

The what ifs are far and wide. I don't like Spreewell so much I hate the whole Cleveland involvement that I heard...Especially if we have to give up DJ. But I wouldn't turn my nose up because somebody said JT.

[Diesel]

The games didn't flow as well with JT as the PG. He did a good job of collecting simple assists.... But he still doesn't have PG instincts enough to run the offense.

If I have a 20 ppg PF in the lane and a 12 ppg SG to play with I think I can get 6 assists.

But JT even with his good second half is still TRADABLE... That's the only bottom line. We shouldn't think that he's untradable. The Smoke screen that you all are argueing against is Dickau... Well, Dickau is capable of running an offense. That makes JT tradable. Not that Dickau is a better scorer than JT... But he can run an offense.

[Guest]

When Spree is gone we have a huge problem.Dermarr is a

BUST...A flat out BUST..And even though I want to keep

Dion...His 3 injury seasons have shown you can't count on

him for the future.

Basically when Spree is gone we have [censored] for a basketball

team.

We will be stuck with SAR a bust in Dermarr and a guy(Dion)

that can't seem to put it together in the NBA and a slow

PG that can't take Sconnie Penn off the dribble.

GREAT TEAM!

[Guest]

You have yet to answer who are we supposed to count

on when Spree is gone?Until you can answer that question

nothing you say means jack [censored].

[hds428]

because you, in your mind, can never be wrong, but this crap about 'JT can't run the offense smoothly' is just potsmoke. Put down the bong and realize that for most of his career, he's been feeding has beens like Deek, never could have beens like Jim Jackson, CBA 10 day contracts, rookies.......and Reef. Naz can't catch a cold in the post. DerMarr has'nt been (and still might not be) ready. Toni and Dion can't stay off the damned IL to save their lives. So WHO is JT gonna feed? Of course the offense looks crappy when your boy, stone hands Mo, is bumbling a simple entry pass into the fifth row, or when the clock is winding down and Dion is way out on the 3 point line. Until last year, and for only short lengths of time last year, he has'nt had anyone to get the ball to on a consistent basis, other than 'Triple Team' Rahim. Let's be for real here, JT is a top PG wether you like it or not, no matter what team he's on, and no bottom first round rookie, no matter how good he is, will step right in from the jump and play at JT's level in any respect.

[hds428]

This guy is so right on the money, its scary. From bumble hands Mohammed to JT's tendency to gamble on the passing lanes, he's got our number. If the Hawks let JT go for money reasons, it's gonna be very hard to not root against ATL, same goes if they pull a Rider partII on Spunkwell.