Thoughts on Trading JT

[jaywalker72]

1. Terry can play the point.

He did it last year, the games meant something to the OTHER teams that played us and he still excelled.

Vaughn, Maloney, et al could NOT run the offense better. We scored more, defended better, etc with JT at the point.

It's silly to say he wasn't more effective at the point last year than at SG. He was.

2. The fact that Terry can play the point DOES NOT mean that Pete isn't looking to move him.

Pete has said that Terry HAS to be on the floor. That's a quote.

Here's another: "JT is one of a handful of players that can score 20 a night, so he needs to be out there, wherever."

Another: "We've started dialouge re: an extension for JT, but we likely won't do anything until later in the summer or in the early fall due to the changing financial climate of the league."

Those quotes paint a fuzzy picture of JT's future.

On one hand, Pete seems to understand that JT is a special talent (one of a handful of players).

On the other, he won't committ either a role nor an extension, AT THIS TIME, to Terry. It would seem to indicate some question on his role in the future Hawks.

Objectively, the Hawks HAVE to look at what they can get for JT, because if they are convinced that Dickau is a better fit for them at the point, then it takes Terry away from the position he is best suited for physically, and that's the point guard position.

Now, where my objection comes in on these recent rumors is what we would be getting for JT.

Sprewell, at 32, has only one direction to go, down.

SG's that rely on their quickness have a MUCH shorter shelf life than SG's that rely on shooting. Reason being that once a quick SG loses a step, they have lost their effectiveness, but a guy like Reggie Miller can still be effective after that step is gone.

Sprewell is due to lose a step. And we will be left holding the bag at the price of trading our top talent and our other tradeable asset, Mohammed.

Even in the RealGM Mock Draft, I dealt JT for Odom and #12, and I still wouldn't object to trading JT as long as we got better today and tomorrow.

This NY crap doesn't get it done.

[jaywalker72]

The only people talking are NY writers, big surprise.

These guys have made a living out of hyping the NY product.

Is is anyone's big surprise that the Hawks are rumored to be getting EVERYONE'S contractual problems?

Ilgauskus? Please.

NY always conjures up these trades to boost value and it almost always involves giving up little to get a lot.

Remember, they swore that the Knicks were turning down the Hawks offer of Camby and Ward for Mutombo....Please, they would jump all over some of these deals.

Now, we hear that NYK doesn't want anyone off the Hawks roster (NY Daily News)....That's rich.

It's more like the other way around, but that wouldn't help the Knicks publicity machine, now would it?

[Hawksfreak]

I think the only thing we need to be focusing on is to resign Ira that is the only thig we need to do we have the talent and everyone is finally healthy and CC is gonna be back.

[JTFan31]

He always knows what he is talking about and Jay will be the first one to say that Dickau is better than JT. IMO he wont, ever. And I'm sure Jay feels the same way as all of us do too, except for Diesel. Again touching the rumor thats has everyone here going nuts today. Why would be trade an up and coming PG for a sg that is going down hill and include a center that has value int his league and can by himself get us a player like Mike Miller. Why? those rumors are a bunch of BS, and what a surprise that NT are the only ones talking about it. They even started that rumor of Spree, Wally and Stackhouse. Dumars said it publicly that rumor was a bunch of crock and Mchale said the same thing. Now they are starting the same kind of rumor. Is this what they do to actually make it known that they are desperate and maybe one of these teams would actually bite on these rumors?

Maybe so, and hwoever does may be stupid enough, but also depending on what they give up.

[jaywalker72]

They use the Hawks all the time to boost value because they KNOW the Hawks will NEVER publicly comment on trade talks, phony or otherwise.

McHale basically said "Why does everyone in NY think the rest of the league is going to help them out of their problems?"

Exactly.

But you will never hear us say that these rumors are garbage, and that's why the Knicks continue to use us...

[Admin]

Actually JTFan, I dont agree that JT will always be better than Dickau. I think that within a year or two Dickau will be a better PG than JT, for the very same reasons that Miller is considered to be a better PG than JT. Dickau is a better passer and is much better at creating for his teammates. I dont think he can score like JT, but he is a better shooter than JT and he looks to get his teammates the ball first rather than shoot first, and he makes decisions MUCH quicker. You can already see the potential this kid has. He is amazing with the way he gets the ball to guys in position to score. Yeah he is still a rookie and will make some mistakes, and I dont think he is going to be better than JT this year, but next year and no later than the following year make no mistake about it, he will be a more valuable PG than JT easily. However, if you could get JT on a team with a big PG or a big SG with ball handling skills like Orlando with TMac and Hill, he could be a dominating score first PG. He is a great player and will be a future all-star in this league, but I dont think he has a chance of being better than Dickau at PG.

[chillzatl]

One of the guys on 790thezone now (4pm) was talking about it with a caller and denounced the trade as a "bad move". The caller was also against it mainly due to Spree's age. Was the caller anyone from here? Good to see someone in the mainstream sports media denouncing this trade.

[Diesel]

When did I say I like the Spreewell trade.

I have said that I don't like it.

However, I have pointed out that JT is on the trading blocks weather you want to believe it or not.

It's not the trade that I believe... or the rumor.. .But I do believe that JT deals have been discussed with Many teams.

Learn to read JTfan31. I don't want an old man and a player who is at the same level of Hendu...

What I do want is a better team.

I would do a JT for Odom if I thought that Odom could get his act together.

I would do JT/Hendu/Nazr/Toni for Bonzi/DD/Stoudamire.. .simply because I like Bonzi's upside and the other guys are good players.

Also, I realize that DD is not a starter yet, but he's good enough to hold the rope if we decided to get a valuable 2/3 for JT.

So get your slams right.

[Guest]

Bonzi. name's been off this board for awhile, but there's a guy taht I'd love for us to have in the 2/3 slot. I'd trade Nazr and Dion to do it too...

I can't run it through the trade checker as bonzi is a restricted FA this year, but think about it.

1) He's been a problem in Portland (see comments about fans last year), wants a new contract,

2) they have two many chiefs and not enough indians

3) they need a center unless Chris Dudley has an epiphany this summer and regains, scratch that, gets some skills

4) plus Dion's in his last year of his contract, so they could let him go if wanted.

5) They have too many players at the 2/3 spot, with Randolph and Woods waiting in the wings, not getting pt behind Patterson, Pip, and Bonzi.

Why it'd work for us. An enigmatic spark plug that can hit the outside shot and crashes the boards. He can score, plays some D, and always plays with heart...

[Traceman]

Where has this idea that Dickau is a pass first PG come from? The guy was a scoring PG in college and his game was VERY similar to JT's in college.

Look at their stats in their last years in college:

JT - 21.9 ppg, 5.5 apg, 3.3 rbg, 2.8 spg

Dickau - 20.6 ppg, 4.9 apg, 3.0 rbg, .8 spg

Dickau is not a classic PG by any stretch of the imagination. His game is a lot like JT's. He LIKES to score and there's nothing wrong with that as long as he still gets his teamates involved. JT proved during the 2nd half of last season that he can do that.

There are some things that I DO think Dickau does better than JT already. One big one is that I do think he is steadier with the ball as he brings it up the court. That is the one part of JT's game that I would like to see him work on a lot more. Dickau doesn't seem nearly as likely to get picked in the backcourt. I think Dickau does seem to be more of a natural at being able to give the ball up to the guys on the fast break in the right spots. I think JT goes one dribble to deep on many occasions. Like JT though, sometimes he tries to do too much and ends up turning it over. As far as being a better shooter than JT goes, time will tell but if DD is better, he's not much better. JT can fill it up with the best of them.

As for JT, he is a LOT quicker than Dickau (although DD is far from slow). JT's quickness on both ends of the floor is a big advantage in his favor. JT is better at creating his own shot. JT is more athletic and he can finish in the lane once he penetrates (Not that Dickau can't but I don't see him consistently finishing around the rin like JT does). I don't know it for sure but I suspect that JT is going to be the better defender of the 2.

I don't think Dickau will surpass JT's numbers at PG any time soon. Do you really think Dickau will do BETTER than 20 ppg and 7 apg by next season? Do you really think teams would have passed on him this year if they thought he was capable of that kind of production? If Jason Williams puts up those kinds of numbers by next year, I'll be surprised. JT was drafted top 10 as a PG in a VERY deep PG class. There is no question that he was considered a superior talent coming out of college. Dickau would not have even gone 1st round had it not been for us. Numerous teams who needed a PG passed on him. For us to now bank our future on a PG evaluation made by Babs (evalution of college talent has certainly not been his strength) and based on summer league play is a HUGE mistake.

[Guest]

Dickau has become the most overrated player out of the

draft and he barely made the first round.lol

[Admin]

Yes I think he will be a better PG than JT, no doubt in my mind. Better all around player? I doubt it. Will he ever put up 20/7 in his career? I even doubt that. However, I believe that he has the talent to average a double double in the right system. I see him as more of a Dre Miller type of PG. The notion that he is a score first PG comes from the way he was told to run the show in Gonzaga, not because of his skills. If you read everything he has said, and his coaches have said, plus what Stockton has said about him its clear that the system at Gonzaga is the reason that he was asked to score first. I really believe that within 2 years he will be giving us 12-15 ppg and 10+ apg. We really dont need a 20 ppg scorer at PG, we need someone like that at SG or at SF. Look at the past NBA champions going back forever. When was the last one to have a PG score like that? The common denominator for all champion teams is having a dominating SG or a dominating SF/PF to play down low and then steady defensive minded role players who can knock down shots when needed. If we can start Dickau and get as much PG production from him as JT, and likely more, and if we can trade JT to get us that dominating SG that we need then we cannot hesitate to do it. Spree is definitely not that guy anymore, but there are some candidates out there who can fill that role.

Back to Dickua now though, when I saw him play in the tournament I was amazed by his ability to score and his tenacity, but then when I saw the summer league game the other day I really noticed how good this kid sees the floor. He was getting the ball to guys in position to score and getting us up court quickly. Like you said, JT just seems to hold onto the ball for one step too long. Its not much he is going to be able to do to fix it either, its just something that natural PGs have and really cant be taught. Its instinct, and Dickau has it. He may never be quite as good as Stockton, but he has many of the same qualities and he is a better jump shooter than Stock also, although I doubt he will ever be as good of a FT shooter. The main thing though from my perspective Trace is that we need to get a SG who is big, can defend, and can score at will. Thats what we really need and if we can get one from a Nazr/JT/filler package, plus a serviceable big man in return then we cannot say no to it I dont feel.

[TheDude]

i say screw the small lineup thing...terry and dickau just need to learn extra ordinary defense...let's run and gun guys..

dickau will have skills...the right attitude is the reason i say that...he's a basketball nut with natural talent..that's all you need..

[Traceman]

Give me the name of a SG who can do all those things (big, defend and score at will) that we could trade JT to get. JT is by no means untradeable. If we could have traded JT for Odom, #8 and #12 like LAC offered for Miller, see ya JT!

As far as Dickau goes, you already are projecting him to be one of the 2 or 3 best PGs in the NBA NEXT YEAR and I just don't think that's realistic. Kidd and Miller are the only two double double PGs in the NBA right now. You really think Dickau is ready to outplay Andre Miller in head to head competition as JT has been doing on a consistent basis? I think you're sleeping on JT's skills a little. I also think JT can improve his ability to handle the ball, see the floor and run the break. Why can't he? Many of the great ones improved their games after being in the NBA for a while.

Also, I don't think its important what position your superstar plays, you just need a superstar. Currently, we don't have one. As far as the last time a team won the NBA championship with a PG as their leading scorer, I guess that would have to be the Pistons with Zeke.

Bottom line, I'm not opposed to trading JT if the deal is for a YOUNG SG/SF who has all the qualities you named. I dfon't know but a few of those guys out there though so the odds of us being able to get one of them in trade for JT are slim. Give me a name or two to think about.

[KB21]

Based on what I've seen recently, Dickau has better court vision than JT. I think he will eventually be a better floor leader due to this vision. And he seems to be getting better every second he's on the floor. Granted, this is from summer league play, but whether it is a summer league or training camp, the things you look for are the same. And improvement from your first game to your last game is something that is looked at.

[BlackHawkDown]

I am tired of this DD nonsense unlike many I have been following Gonzaga for a while. DD is a good college player that is it. He is going to be at best a Craig Ehlo/ John Stocton Hybrid. I always said DD would have been my pick with a mid to late 2nd rounder but that is it. I honestly dont understand why so many on this site are so facinated with him. He really isn't the great player you envision him to be. I remember on the AA site just like DD CC had a cliche of psychophants after his one good NBA game in the playoffs against the Knicks. Same scenario DD does OK in the summer league and everyone falls in love. I watched DD in college he scored 21PPG in a sorry league, Trust me there is a big difference in the Power conferences and the others. DD is going to start feeling the pressure soon enough and start playing sissy ball the way he did in college. Gonzaga as a program isn't bad but overall I would say their success was more from good coaching than talent. DD isn't the worst player to ever play but dear God he is nowhere near the player that many of you postulate he will be.

PS JT is unlike any player in the league past or present. His speed is tantamount to that of Zeke in his prime. He will only get better. If he startsplaying more consistent ball, which he did last season, he will become a perrennial All Star. The future of this team is JT, SAR, DJ NOT DD or Spree or Olowakandi, Matt Gieger or Jurgen Von Stutgart/Mickhael Volkinikovic or any of these lame ducks and scrubs I see mentioned in any of these ficticious trades.

[Guest]

From what I've seen of DD in college and summer play, he has good court awareness and can make that "where did that come from pass". He also seems to have a fairly consistent even if ugly shot. But NO WAY can I foresee ever wanting him on the floor instead of JT.

JT IMO is a unique talent. He can break down pretty much anyone who is defending him and go wherever he wants. His quickness is as good as anyone not named Iverson and his straightline downcourt speed is outstanding too. I'd bet on him in any sort of foot speed test against pretty much anyone except maybe Kerry Kittles in a court length dash. His shot can be a little streaky but on around 80% of the games it is on and he knows it. On those days he KNOWS he WILL put down the critical shot if called upon. Watch him shoot before the game, if he has it, he doesnt miss, seriously, he will hit 10-15 straight in the shoot around on many nights.

All that taken into account, I'd still trade JT in an Odom or Andre Miller type deal mainly because you'll always have that defensive issue with JT on the court and he really doesnt have great pass first skills. I'd value JT very similarly to Alan Iverson as a player and you can see how Iverson caused his team problems with matchups. I think JT fits with DJ or even Ira at the SG just fine especially if you have Kukoc out there some too to help get his team some easy pass assisted baskets.

I'd put DD more in the Jacque Vaughn category. I'll think in the NBA he'll be more of a pass first kinda guy. But with DD as a backup, if JT went down to injury, I think DD could pick up some of the shots whereas Jacque could not. DD can probably beat Jacque in a game of "horse", but in a clutch horse game, I'd take JT right up there with Reggie Miller myself. If I'm wrong and DD ends up being the shooter JT is, then I guess I'll be ready to start the mini backcourt. I just dont see that happening.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

Give me the name of a SG who can do all those things (big, defend and score at will) that we could trade JT to get. JT is by no means untradeable. If we could have traded JT for Odom, #8 and #12 like LAC offered for Miller, see ya JT!

---

First off, because of the versatility of DJ, we will be looking for a scoring 2 or 3...

Here's what I have:

1. Eddie Jones... via Jones for JT/Hendu/Email. Let's look. Pat Riley is always tinkering with the PG position and his tenure is just aboutup... Maybe fired midseason.

However, Miami have to get rid of 2 of the big 3... Jones, Zo, and Grant.

Reason being is because the stands are not full anymore and these guys make a TON of Money. I believe that Miami would do this trade because 1. JT will make 2 million for the next 2 yrs. LUKE RECKER. Caron Butler. AND.... Hendu is flirting with retirement. If anybody can make him quit Riley can. There's even room for Email.

2. Shane Battier. More specifically... Hendu/JT/Nazr/Email for Lo/Battier/BK. Again, making dreams come true. I can even see JT playing the two for this sqaud...

3. JT for Odom. As the days pass by, LAC will start to consider this. Both teams leave happy.... Well Kinda.

4. Bonzi Wells. JT for Bonzi can go straight up too.

5. Rashard Lewis. I don't have a lot of faith in this guy but anything is possible.

The possibilities are endless.

[Guest]

Eddie Jones is almost as old as Spree.Battier?Nah!Bonzi...maybe..

but I'd much rather get a Point Foward if we trade Jt or Rashard

Lewis.

[Traceman]

I could POSSIBLY see doing the deal for Eddie Jones but Eddie is not a leader. Is he really that good? Where has he led his team to before? Neither LA, Miami or Charlotte accomplished anything of importance with him on the team. In fact, every team he has been a part of has underachieved. He's no spring chicken either. All that being said, I'd trade for him before I'd trade for Spree, I'm just not sure he is going to be a better asset for us than JT will be.

No way in hell would I even CONSIDER trading JT for Shane Battier. Battier is a glorified role player while JT is a potential All Star. I don't care why Memphis would do it, I wouldn't.

If Odom didn't have the weed issues, I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal. As things stand now, LAC would have to at least give up one more player with value, preferably Wilcox but maybe Magette.

Wells has a horrible attitude and he's too much of a risk. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him but I wouldn't give up JT to take that chance. That is about like taking a chance on JR when we gave up Smitty but WORSE because JT hasn't even reached his prime while Smitty was past his prime.

MAYBE Lewis but will he be more of an impact player than JT? If he could be signed for something less than the max, I'd think hard about it but I still don't know.

Of all the deal proposed, deals for Odom and Lewis make the most sense for us but they come with risks too. I don't see Seattle doing the deal though because they have GP.