Plainview1981 Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 On ESPN they have a poll "Who is the best Laker" Magic 55% Kareem 24% Jerry West 11% Kobe 7% Shaq 4% Boy those in LA aren't very bright fans are they? How exactually is Kobe or Jerry West better than Shaq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyman3 Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 well... its like this SHAQ hasnt being play like the #1 center in the league and Kobes been the MVP of the team thus far in the playoffs. had the same poll been taken durin kobe/shaqs first playoff run at the NBA TITLE... more peop would had voted for SHAQ. i cant say anythin about JERRY WEST... since i havent seen him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted April 29, 2004 Premium Member Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Without Shaq, the Lakers would have NO RINGS... Surely you don't think Kobe would have carried them??? I mean, look at the playoff series vs. PTL, Indy in year 1, Philly in year 2, and Sactown in Year 3.... Kobe folds like an card table.... However, without Kobe, I say the Lakers still get at least one of those rings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted May 3, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 If it were my poll I would put the choices as: Magic Wilt Kareem West Shaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted May 3, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 If it were my poll I would put the choices as: Magic Johnson Wilt Chamberlein Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Shaquille ONeal Elgin Baylor Jerry West Kobe wouldn't enter the discussion yet. West could be included but I wouldn't list him as an option in light of those others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weez Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 you wouldn't mention West? are you kidding...?! Both Wilt and Kareem moved to Laker land gaining much notoriety and stats on different teams. the aging Kareem did nothing in LA until the brash young Magic and Worthy came strolling along...Wilt, far removed (nearly 10 years from his 50 pt season avg!) when he won a title with LA, required West's presence and killer instinct to get that elusive ring... consider that in your rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted May 3, 2004 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 My top LA Lakers...... 1... Kurt Rambis. Just Joking... 1. Elgin Baylor 2. Magic 3. Wilt 4. Kareem 5. Shaq 6. Jery West. 7. Kobe 8. Worthy 9. Gail Goodrich 10. Adreian Dantley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyman3 Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 "Without Shaq, the Lakers would have NO RINGS..." - I agree 100% "Surely you don't think Kobe would have carried them??? " - Prob not... other teams like PORTLAND and SACTOWN were way too talented to lose to a team just led by KOBE. "Kobe folds like an card table...." - NOPE! Kobe is clutch. top 10 most clutch players in the game today. in the final 2 minutes of any game, he raises the level up a notch. "However, without Kobe, I say the Lakers still get at least one of those rings..." - I dont know... as dominant as SHAQ was, he still needed help. Even in his book, he talks about how he wouldnt have any rings if it wasnt for KOBE. Remember those times, esp that 1 game vs the PACERS in the finals, when SHAQ fouled out... KOBE literally took the team and got that W. w/o KOBE, Shaq would still be motivated and looking for his first championship ring... imo no knock on FISHER, FOX, or HORRY... but SHAQ needed more help than that. remember now, W/ KOBE... the LAKERS (at times) barely went to the NBA FINALS. Game 7 vs Blazers, Game 7 vs SACTown, etc... think about how it woulda went w/o KOBE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted May 3, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Quote: you wouldn't mention West? are you kidding...?! Both Wilt and Kareem moved to Laker land gaining much notoriety and stats on different teams. the aging Kareem did nothing in LA until the brash young Magic and Worthy came strolling along...Wilt, far removed (nearly 10 years from his 50 pt season avg!) when he won a title with LA, required West's presence and killer instinct to get that elusive ring... consider that in your rankings. I meant to include West as you can see by the second post where he is listd as a choice. The second part of that sentence about not including West was supposed to be deleted (my bad for not deleting it). Anyway, I guess the definition for greatest Lakers depends some on how you frame it. I was listing the best players who were significant players for the Lakers at some point in their career (unlike Nique with Boston, for example). Among those players, you can make a case for Kareem, Wilt, Magic and Wilt as the greatest player ever. You can't make that argument for West - howeveer, as a LAKER I can totally understand the argument that West was a better player than Wilt. However, I think you are a little off on Wilt. You imply he was far from a dominant player when he joined the Lakers but he was MVP for three consecutive seasons before he joined them! In fact, he led Philly to a championship two years before joining the Lakers. By way of contrast, West never won a championship without Wilt and never won an MVP during his career. I meant to include West on the list but I think you are shortchanging Wilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted May 3, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Quote: w/o KOBE, Shaq would still be motivated and looking for his first championship ring... imo no knock on FISHER, FOX, or HORRY... but SHAQ needed more help than that. remember now, W/ KOBE... the LAKERS (at times) barely went to the NBA FINALS. Game 7 vs Blazers, Game 7 vs SACTown, etc... think about how it woulda went w/o KOBE? I agree with that if you assume the Lakers wouldn't have used that cap space and roster space to acquire a complementary star for Shaq. Shaq had already been to the NBA finals before he came to LA and he was even better his first several years in LA than he was in Orlando. IMO, if you replace Kobe with a number of other swingmen (like Paul Pierce) you would still see a ring on Shaq's finger whereas if you replaced Shaq with a lesser player like Dikembe Mutombo then Kobe's career would more closely resemble some of the other high scoring, low-playoff-winning swingmen we've seen over the last twenty years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOShforRoy Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Shaq is probably the most dominant player since Michael jordan's second retirement. Without shaq kobe wouldn't have any rings. a proof of that is orlando's situation Tracy mcgrady is about as talented as kobe and look them. Tmac couldn't take his to the playoffs and he probably won't win a ring if is all alone but with shaq he can get a few rings.to sum it up Shaq is better better than kobe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRE Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 What can I say? Some of you guys are freaking stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weez Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 you're correct, West didn't win a regular season MVP during his stint with the Lakers... However, he did do what I consider one of the greatest personnal achievments in all of sports ~ he won a Finals MVP for a series that he LOST (I'm not sure if Wilt was there or not...and hopefully I'm not wrong on this stat, again, most times I just post based on memory, for better or worse). Wilt had won MVP awards, but his game was far from the mind-boggling 50pt seasons that many vivildy recall. Furthermore....he had to change his game, his style, and his role in order for that team to win. When was the trade made? 68? And they won in '71? NEvertheless, your point is well taken - I hadn't realized how productive Wilt still was at the time of his trade.... Sidenote ~ I don't know if you can hold it against West for not winning a title pre-Wilt and mroe than you can hold it against Wilt for without West....it's like blaming Malone and co. for not winning one when Jordan and Pipp were around...cause those damn Celtics won nearly every title there for awhile (who slipped in and won it one year?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyman3 Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 dont get me wrong... of course, SHAQ was the MVP of the team that won several rings... im not preachin that SHAQ is less valuable on the team than Kobe (durin those years). but this is the NBA... 1 player, himself, cannot win a championship even the GREAT, Michael Jordan, needed SCOTTIE PIPPEN and a 3rd player (rodman, kukoc, harper) to win a ring. this question is no different from "would MJ have a ring if Scottie Pippen wasnt on that team?" the truth is, who knows? but did MJ need PIPPEN to win a ring, "YEAH!" the JAZZ won 2 games or so against the BULLS w/ PIPPEN + MJ. w/o Pippen, it could have been possible that the JAZZ woulda won the series. ---------------------------------- but on a sidenote, while it is true that Shaq has been to the finals w/o Kobe.. he had PENNY HARDAWAY who was an ALLSTAR at the time. the only good argument so far is the fact that SHAQ could have called someone, lured them to play for the LAKERS, and win a championship using the CAP they would have if kobe wasnt there... using taht argument... lets break it down KOBE (during the championship years) was averaging like $12 million a year or so (please correct me if im wrong)... but were the lakers over the cap even w/o KOBE? if so, then theres no way they could have goten someone even similar to KOBE in talent. right now, w/o KOBE- the lakers have $51 million under contract. its possible that even w/o KOBE, the lakers wouldnt have enuf money to get another attractive free agent... if thats the case, no ring for shaq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weez Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 astute observation and correct in your analysis I believe. I agree completely on every point. I'm not sure when Kobe signed his new deal, I'm guessing that it was ~ 99 or '00 given that he came into the league in '96....so maybe for the first ring he was still on his rookie pay scale? everything else is dead-on imo. People forget about how good Penny was...and that he spawned lil' Penny...(aka Sprite character now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenstanly Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 Was Magic the equivalent of Kobe ? At least Diesel's assesment of Kobe ? I say, Yes ! Kareem was the equivalent of Shaq. How can Magic get such an overwhelming nod as best Laker ? Because he smiled a lot ? Not only did he have Kareem, but also Worthy and Jamaal Wilks before him. Also don't forget Norm Nixon and Scott in his prime. And Bob Mcadoo and Mychael Thompson as well. Bottom line: Magic NEVER carried anything. Those Lakers were great teams. Stacked teams. Period. Kareem was the go-to guy. The one that opened everything up for the others because he was un-guardable. My vote is Kareem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brxa Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 What about when Magic came in and played center instead of Karim, as a rookie, in the FINALS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin chillzatl Posted May 4, 2004 Admin Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 but you can't base a guys greatness on one game. He played huge and was a complete mismatch. But realistically he was only giving up 3 inches or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted May 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 I only started watching around the end of 89..But stat wise Kareem was on the decline after 82. His 21PPG 7RPG hardly matches Shaq's 26PPG 10RPG 3APG. Statwise Magic was a better player than Kareem when Kareem was a laker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weez Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 but you're the man who always claims that stats rarely paint the whole picture... just playin with ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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