two things

[Packfill]

Kwame may be 270 pounds of muscle but he has no heart or tenacity. A change of scenary may do him some good but I am not sure he will ever live up to the potential.

[emeans]

Diesel,

Proof? Smooth is the best defensive player on the roster right now (He is very difficult to shoot over and he blocks shots at a very high rate for a forward). He does this every time he gets some playing time.

The problem I have is that Woodson pulls him after 1 mistake when other guys on the team are making mistakes after mistakes after mistakes...turnovers after turnovers after turnovers....missing free throws after free throws after free throws. Woodson doesn't pull them??? But let Smooth make 1 mistake and he is on the far end of the bench when it is obvious he can make a HUGE impact on the game given the opportunity.

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About Walker, I think he's more likely a part of our future than Harrington.

Look at the production.

I say we trade Harrington for KBrown.

Brown is 7'0, 270 all muscle... That's our C.

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Your 1st statement is about as inaccurate as inaccurate can be. Walker is not likely going to be a part of this future because of MONEY. Harrington does not make nearly as much as Walker. So we are keeping Harrington and dealing Walker. Plain and simple and that production you are talking can be spread to other players given the chance.

Secondly, how many times do I have to say this....Washington is not trading KBrown and Atlanta is not trading Harrington. End of story and all discussion about that!! You are going to end up starting bogus rumors!!

[Nicholasp27]

who said smoove should start or play 30mpg? we just want him to get more mpg than he has now...maybe 15-20mpg? and we don't like how he is pulled so quickly....i've seen him pulled after a block and pulled after a missed shot...u gotta give him time to get in a groove when he's getting blocks/scoring and u can't make him scared to do anything for fear of being pulled if he misses a shot or turns it over...

dhoward is same age as smoove and is doing fine...same as lebron...garnett also when he was a rookie...who's to say smoove couldn't at least do decently in 15-20mpg?

[MoonKnight]

"""About Walker, I think he's more likely a part of our future than Harrington""".

Why do you believe this? AH is considerably younger than AW and getting his first full time starting assignment. AH still has two years left on his contract at a reasonable salary. And with AW as the alpha dog we still have just TWO wins. AW is a good player but is hardly a future foundation for this team.

[Diesel]

I agree... Smoove should get more minutes... But Like I said, I think it will be some time before he gets starters minutes...

While, he's atheletic enough to play the game, he needs to learn the game. Playing with Harrington or Walker will cause that process to be a little slower, but sometimes slower is better. I say we get Smoove to the point where he can back up the 3 and 4 for 28 mpg.... And we move from there.

About DHoward/Lebron..

Those guys had something a little more special than Smoove. I watched an allstar game with Smoove and Howard. Howard could dominate the game and he was a smart player. Smoove was the most atheletic player there but his Basketball IQ was not great. I say let's work him in, but there are many that are in a rush to put him out there to start... I got 1 word..Rumeal...

[Diesel]

I think it's a case of versatility. I know AW is one of your least favorite people... But look at what comes to the table...

Points, Assists, Rebounds... He's a player that can either be the lead scorer or a secondary scorer. In his career, he's played both roles.

What do you get with AH... He's a sometimey scorer and a weak rebounder and Assists???? Dominique passed the ball more....

I think when you look up the makeup of our young team, Chillz will be a glue guy. Walker has the potential to be a secondary scorer. And when we get a guy like Chris Paul, we will have something special.. Because Paul is not a pass first kinda PG, having good passers around him will certainly help his game. I just don't see having Harrington here with a PG like Paul as being a good thing...

[Diesel]

You might say that BK is a Miser.... However....

Last year he offered Martin a 6 yr 70 million dollar deal.

Kmart's stats were:

16.7 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.3 bpg, 48.8% from the field, 68.4% from the line, 28% from three.

Walker with ATL :

22 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 4.1 apg, 0.5 bpg, 43.9% from the field, 47.9% from the line, 32.5% from three.

Now, if Kmart was worth 6 yr 70 million, Walker has to be worth 5 yr 54 million.

BTW, Walker is only 1 yr older than Kmart...

[bballfan]

Without Walker we wouldn't even have 2 wins.

Walekr can't do it a,one. He scores between 20-25 a night and at times the most anyone else had scored on the team was 7.

Walker isn't to blame for this teams record. Without him we would still be losing by 40 a night.

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"""About Walker, I think he's more likely a part of our future than Harrington""".

Why do you believe this? AH is considerably younger than AW and getting his first full time starting assignment. AH still has two years left on his contract at a reasonable salary. And with AW as the alpha dog we still have just TWO wins. AW is a good player but is hardly a future foundation for this team.

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[Iman]

Just as to some degree I think Walker's turnovers are high because we dont have any other playmakers, I think Walker's defensive weaknesses are not clear if you just look at the stats. I bet opposing PF's do not outscore Walker, he does a good job with who he's defending, boxes out well. But he provides absolutely no help defense. Maybe he'll swipe at the ball if someone drives the lane but even if it's a point guard they still get the ball up past him. Our team defense/fouls/etc are hurt by playing Walker at PF. Harrington's not much better, especially considering how much more athletic he is.

Who knows, BK may trade Harrington and Walker both. He got rid of JT probably because he was too small for the position that he needed to play. Or maybe he'll keep one or both as bench players, it's working for JT at Dallas. Only problem with that is cap space, especially for Walker. Too bad we didnt get Antawn Jamison instead of Antoine Walker from Dallas, he's overpaid but I like him at SF with Josh at PF as he matures.

[Nicholasp27]

kmart is a defensive presence...walker isn't...

[MoonKnight]

Walker is also #3 in total turnovers in the NBA. He is also in the top 10 in field goal attempts. None of these stats reveal his D problems. Not all of this is his fault at all. Our offensive sets are terrible. We rarely execute on the O end unless it is immediately after a timeout. I think Woodson deserves some blame for our failure to execute. Harrington has taken about 90 less attempts than Walker. I think Walker has hit his "potential" ceiling and I don't think he can play any better then he is right now. IMO, AH has not hit his "potential" ceiling and is more valuable because he can still improve and grow. This is the profile we need for a rebuilding team and that is why BK will not move AH unless he gets an incredible offer.

[Inside_Man]

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Without Walker we wouldn't even have 2 wins.

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If he could shoot free throws, we'd have five!

[emeans]

Well said.....AH is younger and is still learning the game also. He will develop into an All-Star type player in no time.

[Diesel]

And Walker is an offensive presence, KMART Is NOT.

My point is that if we were willing to spend that much for Kmart, we should be in the same arena (not as much but close) for Walker.

[Diesel]

By no means am I saying that Harrington is bad. I'm saying that we can get what we get from Harrington elsewhere. For instance... Smoove can easily recreate anything we get from Harrington. In face, Smoove will be a better defensive player and will probably pass more. Like I have said from the beginning, Smoove has star potential and may be the only Hawk with that.

BUT

We can't recreate what we get from Walker. You say Walker has Hit his ceiling... OK. In his career, Walker has been about a 20/9/3.5 player. This year he is 20/8.6/4.1. Where do we get that. Harrington may have potential, but have you noticed that he doesn't pass.

Defensively, it's easy to point out Walker's shortcomings, but Walker has tried. I can't say that I have seen Harrington lock his man down. I think what will eventually happen is that we will get a few more defensive pieces like Swift. We will allow Smoove to come up. And our defense will be a better team defense with less rotation and more man to man. Maybe some kind of Matchup Zone like Detroit used last year.

Honestly, if we traded Harrington for Brown...

This is what we can play next year:

Brown/Walker/Smoove/Chills/Paul...

with Drobs/Swift/Diaw/Ivey/Delk/D. Smith as BUs...

That is to say that we would still have room for one draft pick...

To try the same thing with Harrington would not be as good a move. Harrington is not a strong rebounder, he doesn't pass as well, I just think for our money, it is good to lock up Walker for a few years while Chillz, Smoove are growing and grow from the Draft...

[Weez]

the argument there comes with the age factor

but watching KMart play so often this year, I wondered if anyone in the league had fallen further...but upon checking his stats, they're really not that far off of where they were last year...but he hasn't showed any ability to grow in Denver, his game just seems stale without the pg to elevate him...

but do you want to give Walker that kind of money at this age, worrying of his age and whether or not he can be productive throughout his contract to earn the full length of it?

[Employee8]

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the argument there comes with the age factor

but watching KMart play so often this year, I wondered if anyone in the league had fallen further...but upon checking his stats, they're really not that far off of where they were last year...but he hasn't showed any ability to grow in Denver, his game just seems stale without the pg to elevate him...

but do you want to give Walker that kind of money at this age, worrying of his age and whether or not he can be productive throughout his contract to earn the full length of it?

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Excellent point, Weez. However, Walker is very durable and hardly JUMPS so I doubt he will suffer any wear and tear as he grows older...

Besides, A 5-year 54 mil deal will most likely be Walker's FINAL Big-Contract since he will be 33-34 at the end of it...Or maybe not? 33 is not that old but I do agree that Walker has reached the "Ceiling", so to speak.

Another thing you can't discount is LEADERSHIP, something that AL does not have. You are either Born a leader or not; Walker was born one, AL wasn't. (or at least AL isn't much of a Leader....at this point of his career anyway)

[Diesel]

If we go with the 5 yr 54 million dollar deal....

Right now, Toine is 28 years old.... Like I said before, Kmart is 27...

If we gave Toine a 5 yr deal at the end of this season, his contract will be over at age 33. Even still, with a 5 yr deal, we would have a team option at the end of his 4th yr...

The point is that I think for the talent and leadership he brings, it's a very cheap deal. It's a shade under 11 million dollars per and with raises, I think it may start at 9 million in the first year. That's cheap when you look at how much Rasheed, Kmart, and Boozer got...

[emeans]

I wouldn't sign Walker to an 11 million a year contract for 4 or 5 years.

BK is not going resign Walker for that kind of money and we are continuously losing. Now it would be a different story if we were doing well with Walker but we are terrible with Walker.

Walker resignability with this team was always going to come down with how well this team did with Walker and right now this team sucks. There is no way we put that much money into a guy when at the end of the day is only pilling up Loses. His impact on this team is not enough for that kind of money and he turns the ball over too much and can't shoot a free throw to save his life. No way we don't deal him.

[Employee8]

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Now it would be a different story if we were doing well with Walker but we are terrible with Walker.

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So what you're saying is if Walker wasn't re-signed, the team would start winning, right?

Umm....nice logic there. *rolls eyes*

Oh and the Hawks are terrible with Walker...Well the Hawks would be GOD-AWFUL AND UNWATCHABLE without Walker. Who is going to SCORE?