Toine wants OUT???

[emeans]

Exactly....We don't want to sign him for an extension because of the rules the money would be off the charts.

Bottom line is that we need to move Walker ASAP and make sure we get something for him. The longer you wait the worse the situation can get and his value will go down, especially if he is wanting to get traded. Other teams will use that a bargaining chip, saying he doesn't want to be there anyway so you minus well give him to us or we will wait until he is a FA.

We better pull the trigger on a move very soon before this gets ugly!!

[Nicholasp27]

well, tomorrow is first day for most trades, as FAs and rookies can finally be traded...so look for lots of trades this week and next...we'll have to see if walker is one of them..

[Packfill]

I think it is too early to trade now. BK and MW will need at least another 10-15 games to evaluate the talent on this team.

I think Walker is a real good player but the reality is, if Josh Smith can play now, we are better off giving him the minutes.

[emeans]

As much as I like Josh Smith, he is not ready to take a lead role on this team. He has to work on his ball handling in traffic.

I have recently been very impressed with Walker and even recently thought we need to do whatever it takes to keep him, however if he is wanting out then I say let him go. If this is not true, then try to contruct a deal that will keep him and not break the bank. He is a very big asset to this team so this situation is really a catch 22.

[Nicholasp27]

right now, when ivey returns, we will prolly go with..

ivey/smoove/al/walker/collier

if we trade walker for dalembert...

ivey/chill/al/smoove/dalembert...

the 2nd team is much better defensively...

if chill/smoove can average around 15ppg, al can average around 20ppg, and ivey/dalembert can give 8 each, then we are looking at 66ppg, plus the bench with delk (10ppg), barry(5ppg), drob (10ppg)...that's 91ppg besides diaw/ka/mccoy/collier/etc...

we'll be able to play our defense finally, and our offense can grow as players develop (smoove and chill could both be 20ppg players in the future) and we draft a paul or jack in the lotto...

i don't think we'll be as bad off tho, as when walker is off the court, atlanta outscores the opps by 13.6pts, but when he's on, we get outscored by 14.1pts...that's good for worst on/off roland rating IN THE LEAGUE...

btw, anderson, al, and toine are all in the worst 20 roland ratings in the league (+/- differential)!!!

drobs is #30 in the entire league and chill is #33!...that's better than brand, amare, prince, pierce....

[Diesel]

I think Dec 15 is a good date to start evaluations... The key is what does Toine want. I think BK ought to have a heart to heart with Toine. If he wants to play on a winner now, we have to trade him.

We are not going to win many games this year. Our defense is not good enough. There are moves that BK can make, but it would be better to plan for the future now. Put a product on the floor that can be exciting.

I don't see Dalembert as an answer but he may be part of the puzzle if we can get a first out of Philly.

Let's just go over some things we know:

1. We know that BK is going to get Swift in the offseason.

Not because anybody has said it or told us, but it makes logical sense. Swift is what we want and need. He will be our PF.

2. We know that we will have a high first round pick in the draft.

3. We know that we will have roughly 20 million to spend.

4. We know it will be very hard to attract FAs.

Now let's speculate...

1. Smoove might be good by next year. All of his tools and with some training, we might have a superstar.

2. Childress and Diaw's ball handling means that getting a PG isn't exactly a TOP Priority...

3. Walker is the versatility that BK likes... But not as defensive or atheletic as he has described...

4. We won't pay Walker more than he's making now.

What do you do as BK??

You still sit in control (as long as Money is a factor)... But Money may not be the main goal and a lot of teams will have money...

What haven't we considered....

1. It has taken a while to get Delk into play.

2. Drobs and Ivey have been IL.

[Nicholasp27]

going on +/- etc, the players with most impact on the scoreboard are ivey, drobs, chill and smoove...with delk helping out as well...

pretty much the rest of the team has a negative +/- rating...

i'd like to hold on to those 4 players, with ivey/chill/smoove having potential to be starters and drobs being our backup center for awhile...

[Employee8]

Just remember everyone.....THIS "RUMOR" IS FROM PETER VECSEY!!!

IT IS PROBABLY AS FAKE AS PAMELA ANDERSON'S BREASTS, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

Vecsey may just be trying to stir up trouble, that's all.

[Nicholasp27]

aren't hers real now?

i thought she had them removed...

[Traceman]

sign Toine to an extension and it does NOT have to start at $15.7M a season. That is the MAXIMUM extension that he would be eligible for be we can sign him to an extension starting well below that figure. When Minnesota extended KG last year, he was eligible for an extension starting at $29.4M but he signed a 5 yr/$100M extension starting at $16M a season. We could sign Toine to a 5yr/$55M extension starting at $9M a season under the rules of the current CBA. The only stipulation is that the extension has to be signed prior to March 1, 2005.

The link below is to an article about Garnett's extension.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3130717

[Traceman]

Of course Walker has the worst +/- on the team, he plays the most mpg on a bad team. It follows that Harrington would be next worst because he plays the 2nd most mpg. Walker and Harrington play a lot of minutes with guys like Kenny and Collier and Diaw who have not been very productive and that drags down their +/- stats. Meanwhile guys like P Diddy, Delk, Smoove and Chill get to play a lot of their minutes with Walker and Harrington and very few with the less productive guys.

If you are going to look at +/-, I think it is more productive to look at 5-man units. That way, guys don't get penalized as much for playing with non-productive players. Using +/- alone, one could suggest that a lineup of:

P Diddy

Smoove

Chill

Delk

Ivey

would be our most productive unit but I sincerely doubt that would be the case.

[Diesel]

As a 8 yr player, in 10 yrs, KG would lose his ability to get 12.5% raises and would have to settle for 5% raises. Also, there's a rule about a player making more than 33% of the teams total salary... If I'm not mistaken.

Quote:

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49. Can existing contracts be extended?

A six or seven year contract can be extended when at least four years have passed since the signing of the contract. A four or five year contract can be extended when at least three years have passed since the signing of the contract. Contracts for fewer than four seasons may not be extended. A contract which has already been extended can be extended again after three years.

A rookie scale contract for a first round draft pick (see question number 38) may be extended from August 1 to October 31 of the player's fourth (option) season, provided the team had previously picked up the option for that season. Rookie scale contracts may be extended for up to six seasons beyond the player's fourth (option) season, bringing the total contract length to seven seasons. All other extensions are limited to six seasons minus the seasons remaining on the current contract. For example, a contract with two seasons remaining may be extended for up to four additional seasons.

The salary in the first year of an extension to a rookie scale contract may be any amount up to the player's maximum. For all other extensions, the salary in the first year of the extension is limited to 112.5% of the salary in the last year of the existing contract. However, it also can't exceed the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent (see question numbers 9 and 10).

This poses an interesting problem -- if an extension takes effect three years from now, how do they set the salary if the maximum salary (and therefore the maximum amount for the extension) won't be known for three years? What they do is write the extension for the maximum 12.5% (assuming the team agrees to give the player that much). Then when the extension takes effect, and the maximum salary for that season is known, the extension salary is amended if necessary.

An example is in order. Shaquille O'Neal's contract was extended prior to the 2000-01 season. His original contract ran through the 02-03 season, in which he made $23,571,429.20. The first year of his extension, 03-04, was originally written for 112.5% of this amount, or $26,517,857.85. As a 10+ year veteran, O'Neal's salary can't exceed 105% of $23,571,429.20, or the 03-04 maximum salary for a 10+ year veteran (which turned out to be $15,344,000), whichever is greater. That means O'Neal's 03-04 salary could not exceed 105% of $23,571,429.20, or $24,750,000.66 (using 105% of his previous salary, since that is the greater of the two). O'Neal's extension was therefore amended downward to the maximum ($24,750,000.66) once the 03-04 maximum salary was determined.

Raises in each year of an extension are limited to 12.5% of the salary in the last year of the existing contract. For example, since O'Neal will earn $23,571,429.20 in 02-03, he can receive a raise of $2,946,428.65 in each year of the extension. If the salary in the first year of the extension is amended downward as described above, then the salary in the remaining years of the extension are amended at the same time, if necessary.

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[bballfan]

Quote:

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Check the thread title, guys. Walker wants out. If you can't keep him and his trade value is low, get a mid 1st round pick and be happy. That's what we did last year and we have josh smith to show for it. I'd rather have josh smith than Dalembert who can't even start for the sixers or some 3rd string point gaurd anyway.

And Iguduola isn't happening unles stheir GM is a moron. They aren't going anywhere with or without walker.

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Peter Vecsey is a liar. He writes for the NY Post which is a tabloid.

This isn't true and every other comments I have heard from Walker are about wanting to stay with one team.

[AgulaDX]

Quote:

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Of course Walker has the worst +/- on the team, he plays the most mpg on a bad team. It follows that Harrington would be next worst because he plays the 2nd most mpg. Walker and Harrington play a lot of minutes with guys like Kenny and Collier and Diaw who have not been very productive and that drags down their +/- stats. Meanwhile guys like P Diddy, Delk, Smoove and Chill get to play a lot of their minutes with Walker and Harrington and very few with the less productive guys.

If you are going to look at +/-, I think it is more productive to look at 5-man units. That way, guys don't get penalized as much for playing with non-productive players. Using +/- alone, one could suggest that a lineup of:

P Diddy

Smoove

Chill

Delk

Ivey

would be our most productive unit but I sincerely doubt that would be the case.

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I agree. Traceman is a smart individual.

[Traceman]

extend Toine to a 5 yr/$55M deal.

[Employee8]

Quote:

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extend Toine to a 5 yr/$55M deal.

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Though I wonder after tonight, will he even WANT an extension....

[Nicholasp27]

yeah, and i have said that in the past...anybody who plays lots of minutes on a losing team will have a bad +/-...as they are out there while the team is losing...

however, the fact that ivey/chill/drob/smoove all have really high +/- is not that misleading...they have all started several games and all play meaningful minutes, not garbage time...

not to say that ivey/delk/chill/smoove/drob would be our best lineup...just that those pieces individually are contributing a lot and should be kept and continue to play more and more minutes...

[Traceman]

It is CLEAR that P Diddy has been more effective at Center than Collier and Delk and Ivey have been more effective at PG than Kenny. Smoove and Chill have gotten minutes at mutiple positions but I think Smoove has played better than Diaw and Chill has played at least as well overall.

[Plainview1981]

Walker has played well. I think he has played with more

control than he did in Boston. I hope the Hawks find a

good situation for him when they trade him because he

really is not as bad as people make him out to be.

[Employee8]

Quote:

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Walker has played well. I think he has played with more

control than he did in Boston. I hope the Hawks find a

good situation for him when they trade him because he

really is not as bad as people make him out to be.

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Well if they do deal him, then Denver is a good place to be. He can take some pressure off of Carmelo there...