espn analysts

[VDiLetto]

I was just watching ESPN and Rich bucher said they don't think Antione will get traded because the Hawks don't want to take on any big contracts. He also said that Antione feels like he will be traded but Atlanta pretty much doesn't know what they are going to do about either resigning him or trading him.

[Employee8]

Walker is taking the overly-PESSIMISTIC view of things, I see.

[Diesel]

I think Toine has made it difficult to trade him. First off, he has a contract that is untradable right now... Secondly, even when we get him into a better contract, his attitude, play, and skillset make it hard to move him...

I mean, seriously what are we looking to get? Youth? I think Walker has played within the confines of Woodson's scheme and may have added so much offensively that it would be too hard to let him go. Then there's the whole leadership thing.

Many people thought that Walk would come in, shoot all the time and deny the Baby Hawks. Well, it's been the opposite. It makes me wish we would have not gotten rid of Nazr?

[TheDude]

i don't understand the "attitude, play, skillset" remark. His attitude has been exceptional and he can do everything except hit free throws.

[Diesel]

I was saying that in a complimentary fashion not as a putdown. I think Walk's Attitude, Skillset, and play has made him a guy that we ought to want to keep.

He's an ironman. He doesn't slack on the court. He wants to be here. He's been very professional. And it seems like he does everything that his coach wants him to do.

If we can get him into a 5 yr 53 million dollar deal, I say do it....

What about Harrington?

Well, if we HAVE to trade Harrington, I would see about moving him for a draft pick in the first round. Maybe we can trade Harrington/2nd to Washington for Kwame/1st. That's wishful.

Maybe we can trade Harrington to NY... KThomas goes to Dallas and Harris/Armstrong comes to Atlanta.... This is my dream trade...

Can you imagine us having Harris/Bogut starting next season...

Harris/Chill/Smoove/Walk/Bogut...

That team would win some games!!

[CBAreject]

The Dallas trade is great. I don't think the Washington trade is too much. Wash is going to let Brown walk, anyway. Their pick will be 20th or below. Why is Brown/20th pick too much for Harrington.

They would lineup

Jamison

Harrington

Haywood

Hughes

Arenas

[JTFan31]

I sure hope we keep Toine. We know he can be a leader, he has shown it, game in and game out. We know what Toine can do, he can fire guys up, he shows intensity, leadership and determination. He will give us 20 ppg 9-10 rpg, great ball handling skills, very good passer, and we need his game here. I hope we keep him. He has absolutely repeatedly has said he likes this group of guys. Next year we will have to resign him and still have money to sign a very good free agent, hopefully a center. Have the 1-3 pick of the draft and draft a star, hopefully a PG. We can become a playoff team next year.

If we keep Harrington it will likely be:

Paul

Chill

Al

Toine

FA Center

Smoove

Diaw

Ekezie

Peja

Delk = instant offense off the bench

Lue

Ivey

Donta

Thats a playoff, it all depends which center we can pickup in FA or via trade and how well our star PG will make the transition from college to the pros

[DominiqueWilkins]

I just don't think Walker should be the center in of our future. He isn't the best rebounder, but yet he can do just about everything else.

Overall I want a power forward that is capable of grabbing 10 boards night after night. Walker being on a weak team still isn't getting 10 boards every night, and he should be.

[Employee8]

Quote:

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I just don't think Walker should be the center in of our future. He isn't the best rebounder, but yet he can do just about everything else.

Overall I want a power forward that is capable of grabbing 10 boards night after night. Walker being on a weak team still isn't getting 10 boards every night, and he should be.

---

Not every night but tell me if there's a PF who can :

1.) Bring the ball up the court and set the offense

2.) Run the Break Well

3.) Lead the break

4.) Pass the ball as well as a PG

Walker, throughout his career(aside from his last year in Boston where he was practically the GoodYear BLIMP with sneakers), has never grabbed less than 8 rebounds a game. Sure he *SHOULD* grab more but he's not Ben Wallace, my friend. Let's not get crazy here....

He should be grabbing between 8-10 boards a game(which is what he's been doing for the most part. I'm shocked that you would complain about HIS REBOUNDING which has been excellent instead of focusing on the usual suspects(FT shooting, shot selection, etc.).

[Wretch]

I know there has been lots of Toine/NY talk and that there have been some trade proposals here - so it's not exactly news. But, I'm pretty sure Toine is headed to NY.

They want him, he probably would like to be there... We've got him, we want a draft pick...they've got a good one and they don't really need it. They are looking to win now, we're looking to win later.

Makes sense.

Problem is, a team cannot deal their 1st round draft pick in consecutive years. Otherwise, this deal with New York would have been done ages ago. NY cannot give us their 1st rounder this year because they dealt two 1st round draft picks to Phoenix for Marbury. Their 2004 pick went to Utah via Phoenix so they owe Phoenix an additional 1st - this year's.

But it's lottery protected in 2005, and with NY likely to be in the lottery this year, they'll have to take it. But there's a loophole (Yay!). Once a team makes a selection in the draft, they are free to trade it's rights regardless of the consecutive 1st rounder rule.

Soooo...

I think Toine lasts through the trade deadline and we make a deal with NY on draft day. I don't see them pulling out a miraculous turnaround, so they could end up anywhere from 6th to about 10th or 11th. That would give us a shot at some really nice prospects - none of which would NY really need, especially if they got Toine.

[Nicholasp27]

that won't happen

walker will be an UFA...why would they do that? and how would u match up the salaries

[Wretch]

His UFA status is the only thing that I'm not sure about. I don't know if we can sign and trade him, being that you can't do that until July; but, NY has plenty of salary that'll match up. The question is, do we take on a guy (like Penny) for an extra year for a lottery pick.

NY wants Walker though. Make no mistake. I know Isiah is drooling over that versatile 20/10. And Walker wants to get paid. There's no way he turns down an offer from the Knicks. Hell, there's even talk that he might take an MLE from them.

If this could be done now, if NY could deal us their 1st, then it would have already happened. The real question here is how to get it done in the off season.

As for the draft, just look at what NY is looking at...

They've got PG and SG locked up. They've got decent bigs in Kurt Thomas and Nazr. If they had Walker, what else would they need from this year's draft (barring a lucky bounce and the opportunity to take Bogut)?

[thecampster]

Try any variation of this you like

Atlanta trades: PF Antoine Walker (20.2 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 3.6 apg in 40.2 minutes)

Atlanta receives: SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)

PF Austin Croshere (9.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.5 apg in 26.5 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +13.8 ppg, +2.6 rpg, and +1.0 apg.

New York trades: SG Anfernee Hardaway (8.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.2 apg in 24.9 minutes)

New York receives: PF Antoine Walker (20.2 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 3.6 apg in 40.2 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +11.9 ppg, +6.9 rpg, and +1.4 apg.

Indiana trades: SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)

PF Austin Croshere (9.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.5 apg in 26.5 minutes)

Indiana receives: SG Anfernee Hardaway (8.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.2 apg in 24.9 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -25.7 ppg, -9.5 rpg, and -2.4 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to New York and Indiana being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New York and Indiana had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have been assigned Trade ID number 2271406

Talk about it on the Trade Board

Now Given New York throws considerations in the way of a Draft Pick Indiana's way it helps Indiana move the biggest headache they have. They'll do it just to have another body for their playoff run and you could do worse than Hardaway.

This move insures the Hawks tank the rest of the way. Next year they draft the best Center available (Bogut) with their top 4 pick (probably 1st overall) and move Diaw/2nd to move into the first to take either Jarrett Jack or Daniel Ewing.

They line up:

Jarrett Jack/Delk/Lue

Childress/D. Smith/Ivey

Artest/Smooth

Harrington/Croshere

Bogut/Ekenzie

Carry Collier on the bench to fill in for the walking wounded.

To anyone hollering about Artest and his attitude, realize he's been out for a year and that grates on you. He's got to be good or he's gone and looking at this team, I see 3 things that stick out. It can shoot, handle the ball and is long enough to defend.

Just a thought to stir the pot.

[CBAreject]

You can't trade an UFA for a pick in that season's draft because you can't resign him until after the draft.

[thecampster]

which is why the trade goes down now.

[Wretch]

NY can't deal consecutive 1st round draft picks. The question I have though, is WHEN free agents are actually considered free agents. The date when you can begin negotiating with free agents is in July, but does that mean you can deal a player at any time before then?

In any event, I could also see New York making the pick...then come July, we SNT Walker for that player plus whatever it takes to even out salary.

[CBAreject]

Hmmm...don't you have to trade the player on draft night or else you don't get to trade him until December or something???

[Diesel]

NY doesn't have any ending contracts.

It won't happen.

I had pondered us taking Penny/1st...

But even 1 year of Penny when we could get FAs instead is too much to take back....

Let alone taking back no talent hacks like either of the Thomas's...

[Diesel]

What may happen...

NY could strike a deal in principle with us on Draft night and then on July 1 when Free Agents can be moved, they do a sign and trade for Walker involving the guy we asked them to pick?

I doubt that it would happen that way but that's one way that it can go down.

[Employee8]

Quote:

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What may happen...

NY could strike a deal in principle with us on Draft night and then on July 1 when Free Agents can be moved, they do a sign and trade for Walker involving the guy we asked them to pick?

I doubt that it would happen that way but that's one way that it can go down.

---

that's a good possibility, Diesel. But that said, What would BK think about this deal?

I don't think this deal has come up yet nor do I believe that it ever will. What makes anyone think, though, that the Knicks would deal the high draft pick?

The Knicks are an OLD Team....sure they've got that nice Arriza kid but the rest of the players are either solid (Thomas, Marbury, etc.) or JUNK (Penny, Tim Thomas, etc.).

I see no way that the Knicks deal the pick when they can draft someone else who has promise and will be a good player for them down the road...

Of course, I'm of the Keep-Antoine-a-Hawk Brigade so I'm a little biased. lol.