We need 'Toine or 'Toine needs us?

[Wretch]

Who needs who more? Do we need Toine here to anchor our young team or does Toine need a place to stay and a fat paycheck?

[cyman3]

hard to say-

1 part of me believes that life w/o Walker...

Childress easily puts up 18 ppg and Smith puts up 14 ppg.

so PPG numbers go up for both players.

but the other part of me believes that life w/o Walker...

Leads to poor fg percentages for both Childress + Smith. Many SCORING DROUGHTS as a team throught the game. not enuf offense to carry the team.

im not sure...

[Spiral]

I don't think we "need" Toine. I also don't think Toine "needs" us either. He will get paid by someone. It may not be as much as we could give him, but he's going to do ok for himself.

I will say this. We do need a reliable, consistent scorer. That person doesn't have to be Walker. As Cyman mentioned, we go thru some terrible scoring droughts. We "need" a reliable scorer to make some shots to get us through the rough times.

The reason for the offensive drougts could also be that we don't have a point guard to set everything up. Many times, we'll come down the floor and nobody looks like they know what they're supposed to do. I feel a good point guard will give us more consistent offense, especially out of the half court.

[Final_quest]

Not to diss Antoine, but we don't need him at all. He has been a great player for us, and I appreciate how he has handled his time here. I maintain that the Hawks never intended to keep Walker after this season. This team needs to develop an identity apart from Antoine Walker and company.

I think Walker is still hoping for an extension to his contract. If the Hawks are the only team that can extend his contract, and they happen to have a low payroll, I would be saying that I want to be a Hawk too.

[TheDude]

neither...Toine needs a contender and we need young players.

[Diesel]

When you consider the situation, I think that first off Toine does need us:

Left Boston to Dallas..

In Boston he was sidekick to Pierce who he moved aside to let become the leader of the Cs. In Dallas, he was with a winning team and he was a role player. That role didn't suite Walker. Coming to Atlanta, he became the vet Leader of a young team. I think he likes this role. It's a role that he has never had before. He was a rookie Leader of the Celtics... He played with uninspiring jokers like Acie Earl and Eric Williams. In Atlanta, he can see the talent.

We Need Toine.

I think this is true also. Our Rookies are not ready for the fulltime game and it's pressure. They can learn from Walker. Walker is an allstar and he's a class act. Even in the midst of Losing, he does what coach tells him to do and he leaves it all on the court. Our Youth could use that kind of Model. Plus, Toine can get us 20/9.

Diesel Says... We all can get along.

I think we can keep Toine, Resign him to a reasonable contract. Keep Harrington. And then play a three forward rotation with Walker/Smoove/Harrington...

I think we ought to get either a C or PG out of the draft and continue building. If we get the right contract for Walker, we can move him once we feel that Smoove or Chill is ready to be a full time 3.

However, I think until then, we can use him as a transitional player. I think Walker and Harrington are both transitional players but if we keep the reigns on PT, we can get the most out of them.

Remember PTL a few years ago...

Who all did the have:

Pipp, Oneal, Cato, Smitty, Anderson, Stoudamire, Wallace, Wells, Sabonis, Dudley, Shrimpf, ... They had a lot of quality players who they were able to convince that if you play in a rotation, we can win. The same happened in Detroit last year. I think you can convince guys to play for the sake of the team and share minutes. That's what we should do until we can get the framework to what we want to build complete.

[Final_quest]

I wouldn't mind keeping Walker, but at what price? If we give Walker anything close to what he wants, no thank you. To me the writing is on the wall, Walker most certainly will be traded. The fact that he has performed well bodes well for us because he has improved his trade value.

If we can't sign some premiere free agents this year, there will always be a player like Walker or Steven Jackson that we can rent for a season to take the pressure off our youngsters. I just don't think Toine will be part of the rebuilding.

[bballfan]

He doesn't. That makes no sense.

I want Walker to stay but I agree he should get no more then on average 10 million a year.

[TheDude]

he needs to go..because we can keep him(by re-signing him after the season) in a different way but short term can "rent" him out if we wanted for a "fee"

[Diesel]

Walker probably won't come back if we trade him.

It's not all about Money... Some of it is about Loyalty.... But even in the instance of Money.

If we trade him to Philly.... They probably will let him go... However, he won't come to us. He'd probably rather go to NY and play for the MLE... At least there he's wanted.

[Final_quest]

He needs us on multiple counts.

1. We are the only team that could sign him to an extension of his contract unless we trade him before the trading deadline.

2. If he does not get an extension, we are probably the only team that could sign him for above the MLE. For example, if the Knicks wanted Walker they could not sign him for over the MLE, but we could and then make a trade with the Knicks.

3. Since we have his rights we would be the team to agree to any trade for Walker. If he wants to go to the Sixers, and the Sixers aren't offering a trade that we like, Walker cannot go to the team he wants.

Bottom line the Hawks have, perhaps, the most financial flexibility of any team this offseason. If we don't want to sign Walker long term the only way for him to get paid $$$ is by using our services.

This is why Walker's comments about wanting to be a Hawk are not necessarily genuine. Very similar to when Kmart and Dampier visited the Hawks last offseason. We gave them leverage in bargaining for a higher contract. We are Walker's only avenue for a nice contract and a team that he would want to play for. He needs us much more than we need him.

[Nicholasp27]

Quote:

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3. Since we have his rights we would be the team to agree to any trade for Walker. If he wants to go to the Sixers, and the Sixers aren't offering a trade that we like, Walker cannot go to the team he wants.

---

we won't have his rights if we don't extend him or pay the 14mil qualifying offer...

therefore he can go to any team he wants that can pay...he can go to the sixers if he wants and if he will take the MLE

but we are the only team who can do a SNT...so if he wants to go to the knicks for more than the MLE, only we can do that...

[bballfan]

He isn't hurting for money. He doesn't need the Hawks to extend him or trade him. he will be a FA and will get the money eventually.

If we keep him, don't resign him and let him go he doesn't nopt eat or have a job.

He does not need teh Hawks at all. That makes no sense.

Quote:

---

He needs us on multiple counts.

1. We are the only team that could sign him to an extension of his contract unless we trade him before the trading deadline.

2. If he does not get an extension, we are probably the only team that could sign him for above the MLE. For example, if the Knicks wanted Walker they could not sign him for over the MLE, but we could and then make a trade with the Knicks.

3. Since we have his rights we would be the team to agree to any trade for Walker. If he wants to go to the Sixers, and the Sixers aren't offering a trade that we like, Walker cannot go to the team he wants.

Bottom line the Hawks have, perhaps, the most financial flexibility of any team this offseason. If we don't want to sign Walker long term the only way for him to get paid $$$ is by using our services.

This is why Walker's comments about wanting to be a Hawk are not necessarily genuine. Very similar to when Kmart and Dampier visited the Hawks last offseason. We gave them leverage in bargaining for a higher contract. We are Walker's only avenue for a nice contract and a team that he would want to play for. He needs us much more than we need him.

---

[Nicholasp27]

he needs us to get more than MLE

[Final_quest]

N27 you're correct. After the season we don't have his rights, that was phrased incorrectly, but the fact remains we are his only avenue to getting paid more than the MLE.

Tip, if you want to speculate that Walker doesn't care if he gets paid more than that, that's an opinion. Truthfully how do you know Walker doesn't care if he gets paid $5 million if he could make $9 million? This is where the Hawks definitely have power over Walker. He needs us to sign for over the MLE, and to trade him to a team he wants to play for.

Most certainly everything I've said makes sense, with regards to this issue. With the salary cap being a free agent doesn't mean you can sign with whatever team you want. There will be fewer teams this offseason able to offer large contracts than last season. Walker needs the Hawks much more than we need him, period.

[Wretch]

The veteran's minimum is available every year, but I don't believe teams have an MLE every year. I think they can only use it every OTHER year. So that reduces the number of teams even moreso.

[bballfan]

I never said he doesn't care about the money but he doesn't need the Hawks to get the best deal because some team could offer him more money then the MLE. Your assuming no one will but until the day comes we won't know what he is being offered.

[Final_quest]

OK man, we'll certainly see if you're correct or not. Read the ESPN insider article Dolfan posted. There are 6 teams with significant cap room this offseason, and 4 of them have their own players to resign. The other 2 teams are the Hawks and the Bobcats. So if you think he has a lot of teams that can offer him deals, you're wrong.

I think this offseason will be quite different from last year. Teams have been getting ready for the offseason after next season, when a lot of superstar's contracts are up. Not many teams have space this year.

[Wretch]

That would be Seattle and Milwaukee. Seattle's got to figure out what to do with Ray Allen and Milwaukee has Redd. When Seattle resigns Allen, they'll eat up a chunk of their money. Milwuakee doesn't have much money to start with, and after they pay for that lottery pick they'll have even less.

[Spiral]

This poll isn't right, Employee8 voted three times.