I don't buy BK's 3 forward theory

[Lascar78]

maybe that's where I went wrong

[chillzatl]

We can take chillz out of the situation, because hes going to play SG, period. He will be coached to become a SG and I think he has teh quickness and ability to do it.

I think Smooth will be coached to become a PF. His game, right now, is much more suited to becoming that. He just needs the bulk that goes along with the position.

Marvin is a natural SF, right now. He's got a much better jump shot than smooth, plus he has the athleticism to take it to the hole strong and rebound well.

That doesn't mean I think it's a bad idea to take him though. I would much rather have a quality young defensive PG to run the offense, OR a good passing, good rebounding, scoring C.

[Sage11]

I could not agree with you more.....

[Sage11]

I agree, good post...

[hotboyj]

What do you think Walker Harrington Smoove was?

Walker is a better shooter, ball-handler, and passer than Marvin.

There is no way Marvin puts up Walker's numbers his rookie season, so expect us to have a worse season than this one.

[Lascar78]

Marvin is a worse shooter than Walker??? Yeah right

.506 FG% .847 FT% .432 3PT% for Marvin this past year

.415 FG% .642 FT% .326 3PT% for Walker (career)

.449 FG% .660 FT% .252 3PT% for Walker in college

Marvin is also a better ball handler and passer. Walker is bigger and more talented in the post

Let's not make things up now, Walker wishes he was the shooter Marvin is

[Diesel]

Quote:

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Marvin is also a better ball handler and passer. Walker is bigger and more talented in the post

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I wonder have you ever really watched Marvin play... This is so erroneous, I'm going to actually look up the numbers to prove you wrong...

1 sec...

As I thought...

MWill averaged 0.7 apg. That's not being a better passer. At UK, Walk average just about 2 apg... That's one of his main draws is that he was a good passing Big man who could hit from outside... Even with us, he laid out 3.0 apg. Williams is a finisher... I can't believe the stuff some of you guys make up about his game. I think most of you haven't even watched him play...

[Lascar78]

do you understand the difference between a pass and an assist? Marvin is not a point guard

Also I'm talking Walker of today, not of college

[Diesel]

Yes... I do..

I definitely understand the difference.

However, I haven't seen much passing from Williams and I have watched probably more UNC games than most scouts... Don't get me wrong, I was with UNC against Illinois. I'm a fan of the ACC. However... when I watched them, I saw very little passing or assists from MWill. You guys have started to ascribe skills to MWill that he didn't show on the court. Next, you'll be talking about him being a great shot blocker...

Then you would say..

I mean intimidator..

Gosh...

I can't wait for the season to start so I can start calling some of you guys OUT!!! By then, you'd probably be on the Rudy Gay Bandwagon singing " Just give MWill some time to develop".

[Lascar78]

lol, as if the scouts from any team with a chance at williams haven't watched every single UNC game.

Williams is a good passer. Whether he is a better passer than Walker or not is debatable. Walker gets assists because he gets it in the post alot more than Marvin and if the D collapses he gets to pass to an open man. Marvin was used more as a finisher than anything else at UNC. But he can pass

[AHF]

As a close follower of Walker's career I would compare them:

Shooting: Marvin >> Twon

Passing: Twon > Marvin

Rebounding: comparable at this stage in their career

Athleticism: Marvin >> Twon

Post Play: comparable at this stage in their career

Ball-handling: comparable at this stage in their career

Defense: comparable at this stage in their career

[Packfill]

Actually, I think Diesel is correct here. Walker was an excellent passer coming out of college as well as being known as an outstanding ballhandler. He definitely exhibited much more talent in these areas in his two years at UK then Marvin did in his one year at UNC.

Argueably Marvin is a similar prospect. Also consider Glenn Robinson, Billy Owens, Jamal Masburn, etc. All those guys were stars, well except for Owens, but none were ultimately guys you would want to build a franchise around or a championship contender.

Again Marvin may be great, but there have been legions of multi talented forwards before him who were supposed to be great but disappointed in the end.

[GoDawgs21]

Diesel I get really bothered by your constant guessing and spewing. You site your opinions as fact. You stated above that it was know Smoove was better in high school. Did you ever see them play against each other? In that case I'll take the word of Chris Ballard. Read the latest SI and there is a Draft section. The article is clearly biased toward Williams since thats who the article is about. One of the authors trong points was that one NBA exec was quoted as saying "His naysayers are primarliy guys who watched him only at UNC. His believers are those of who saw him play in the summer between his junior and senior year of high school, when he was playing against guys like Dwight Howard and Josh Smith. He wiped the floor with Josh Smith." Dont get me wrong I am the biggest NO.5 fan out there, but if someone can wipe the floor with smooth I would like to see them play togther in a fast paced game. Maybe trade Al/Diaw/and one of next years 1st to NO and get either Paul or Williams to run the horses.

[Diesel]

The word was fact in that case...

Just check the ledger...

Coming out of HS, USA TODAY SuperPoll Amoung others ranked JSmoove as the #2 HS prospect. If you dont know USA TODAY Superpoll keeps tabs on these guys Year long. But so does Collegehoops, Insidehoops, and a list of many other sites.

I missed the AAU game where MWill went off for 34 points in a losing effort against the Atlanta Celtics with Josh Gaurding him...

However, the facts still remain.. at the time, Smoove was considered the better prospect!

[AHF]

Quote:

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However, the facts still remain.. at the time, Smoove was considered the better prospect!

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At the time of last year's draft, though, Marvin was considered the better prospect. GMs have said repeatedly over the last year that he would have been a lottery pick if he had stuck around the draft. As you know, Josh fell during the workout phase of the draft prep and was not a lottery pick.

It depends on the point in time you are looking at with them. I think they would have been similar prospects with Marvin rated higher due to the more developed nature of his game.

[Diesel]

I guess I have to properly address this right?

Actually..

On draft day... Smoove had dropped, You're right... but MWill had dropped out. MWill had done no workouts... The only thing that caused Smoove to drop was a report from a Charlotte workout. Bernie said that Smoove wasn't good (in effect)... That caused his stock to drop.

However, MWill's stock had already dropped after bad showings in the McDonald's game.

Here's one report after the McDonald's game...

Quote:

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Marvin Williams

6'9"/220 lbs.

Small Forward

3 points, 1-for-6 FG Shooting

Headed To: North Carolina/NBA?

NBA ETA: 2007

Word: No player disappointed more than Williams, especially in light of the fact that he's seriously considering jumping to the NBA. Truth is, if he went to North Carolina, he wouldn't even start for them. With still trust the great things we've heard about him, but he seemed far too perimeter-oriented.

---

Before MWill dropped, he was LATE first round being Dorrell Wright by most accounts.

Smoove Dropped after the Bickerstaff comments. But before the Bickerstaff comments, he was solidly top 5 in the draft. I recall that for many of us Squawkers, we wanted him as our first pick if possible... Before Bickerstaff ruined his draft position.

[Lascar78]

smoove dropped way before that. He dropped after his performance in that all-star game that was featured in a fox sports documentary. He seemingly gave up on himself in the all star game and everyone got scared of his attitude. That was long before his charlotte workouts

[gohawks11]

i dont think he meant they would start. proboaly just put them all in at one time.

[Diesel]

No sir. That documentary aired before the MAAG. It had him and Howard in it right?

No, Smoove was top 5 until about the second weeks of workouts. I remember his stock soared when he worked out for Phoenix because it leaked that his verticle was amazing and that he looked good. Then he went to Charlotte and Bickerstaff questioned his work ethic (the same way people are questioning Taft).. They took Smoove's demeanor of being unexcited to mean that he was lazy...

[Lascar78]

yeah I didn't say it was the mcdonalds. It was one of the previous all-star games, I'm sure everybody remembers it, yeah it had him and Dwight joking around. People started questioning him hard right after that because he quit. Some still thought he was top 6, some started dropping him way down right away. I don't know when you would exactly say that "the general concensus" of his draft position fell, but the wheels were certainly set in motion with that game and documentary