A quick, late take on the Hawk's draft

[Guest Walter]

1) Marvin...a gamble not a reach. Wasn't nearly as highly rated as Josh Smith last year and a year at a high profile school made him a familiar player not a different player. Danny Granger may be better and is certainly better right now. HUGE gamble when it gives us yet another forward and more importantly another (hopefully) starter quality one. An even bigger gamble when Deron was available. Paul's defense scares me but I might rather compensate for him than go into next season with the same team lacking any center or Pg prospect, no Antione Walker, and 3 Sfs with "potential". It's not like stinking uup the joint will help us given the new collective bargaining agreement severely weakened next year's class. Anybody for another swing player next year? Rudy Gay?

2) Tony Parker, I mean Ukic was available. Doesn't make alot of sense to get a wrong-headed 6'1" Sg. He's a shooter, though. If he makes for even a BU Pg he's worth this pick because he gives this team something it sorely lacked. Problem? Ukic will make this pick shameful.

Cenk pick was good. Didn't waste it on a U.S. player not likely to make the team or likely to take a summerleague invite. Too bad a good pick at 59 doesn't make up for questionable ones elsewhere.

My choice? Without a trade...

Deron Williams and Andriuskevicius or the other big drafted after him.

If we drafted Williams, Ukic at 31.

I give the draft a C-. We are worse than we were last year, being worse in a bad upcoming draft year does not help us, and I don't think Marvin's potential is all that, much less at a position of need.

W

[KB21]

Marvin was rated higher than Josh Smith last year. There is a reason Josh went 17th and Marvin would have been a lottery pick had he declared. Marvin has the skills that Josh lacks.

Danny Granger is good, but he is not better and will not be better in the long haul than Marvin Williams. Marvin was, by far, the best player in this draft. This is not a gamble. This was the smartest pick any GM made in this draft.

[deester11]

I totally agree KB. If any other team had drafted Marvin they would have been instant A+'s. Just like the quote some goof for the USATODAY wrote saying that because the Hawks drafted Marvin, the superstar potential will never be reached. What an ignorant thought. It's no different than the Falcons. If any other qb has won the games that Vick has, he would have been given accolades. I think it's just an Atlanta bashing thing. I thought our draft was outstanding.......I don't care for Akhol....but it's worth stashing him away I guess.

[Guest Walter]

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Marvin was rated higher than Josh Smith last year. There is a reason Josh went 17th and Marvin would have been a lottery pick had he declared. Marvin has the skills that Josh lacks.

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Marvin wasn't rated higher (remember Josh FELL to 17). Marvin was the 5th to 6th best HSer in last year's draft. Exactly who was the last lottery projected pick, much less HS pick, that didn't enter the draft? Nonsense. Lastly, Marvin doesn't have the run/jump athleticism Josh.

More importantly, Josh and Marvin are the same player positionally. We can't develop 2 identical players positionally at the same time.

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This was the smartest pick any GM made in this draft.

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PULEAZE. You don't know what Williams will be as a pro, what position he will play, what players we will have to dump or not develop. He's undersized as a Pf and we have too many Sfs or 'tweeners. I'm not saying it's a horrible pick, just a questionable one. Had I been at the workouts I too may have made the same pick, but the draft overall I at least get a Pg that may project as starter quality (i.e. Ukic). I at least fill ONE of our team positional needs with our three picks. It's easier to get a pure shooter (Korver) than a starter quality Pg. Stoudamire is not that and Ukic is. Remember I graded our draft not just one selection.

W

[KB21]

So, pretty much every scout in the league and everyone associated with the draft is speaking nonsense when they state that Marvin Williams is the one player in this draft that has the ability to be a great player.

You should tell the team that told Marvin they were taking him in the lottery if he declared last year that he was the 5th or 6th rated high schooler from that class. Marvin was no lower than third when it comes to what NBA scouts were looking at.

[Guest Walter]

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So, pretty much every scout in the league and everyone associated with the draft is speaking nonsense when they state that Marvin Williams is the one player in this draft that has the ability to be a great player.

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KB, you just said that Marvin was the "smartest GM move made". In the land of absolutes, I don't see how "every scout" is any different.

What does "ability to be a great player" mean and what position does he become said "great player" in? Fact is that Josh Smith has just as much of a chance at being a great player. He lacks Williams' skill and Williams' his athleticism. However, both play the same position. We may have to kill off one character to have a lead role and to me that is a waste of draft capitol.

My hope is that Marvin is more suited at Pf. But I know he's not in the NBA. In short. We will have to trade Harrington and hope we get something of value for him, pray Childress, Smith, and Williams can coexist as 3 Sfs playing 3 different positions, and rely on the fact that doing so still allows them all to reach NEAR their potential despite no Pg or center.

I think the Williams pick is a B-, a gamble that might pay off. It's a gamble both because of the word "potential" and a gamble because positionally we couldn't have drafted worse. I think the draft overall is a C-. While we filled a shooting need with Stoudamire, we did so with an otherwise non-functional player when a potential starter quality Pg was available.

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You should tell the team that told Marvin they were taking him in the lottery if he declared last year that he was the 5th or 6th rated high schooler from that class.

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What team? Is this agent speak again?

Last year Marvin certainly wasn't more sought after by NBA GMs than Josh or even JR.

W

[Diesel]

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o, pretty much every scout in the league and everyone associated with the draft is speaking nonsense when they state that Marvin Williams is the one player in this draft that has the ability to be a great player.

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Are these the same guys who were talking the same noise about Kwame.

Moreover, what many of them said was POTENTIAL not ability... There's a whole lot of IF and HOPE between Potential and Ability. With Al and Smoove in hand, it would have been smarter to go with a PG with the same potential and more ability than Marvin.

[KB21]

The Hawks get the best player in the draft, and somehow, that is a B- pick.

Friggin incredible!!

The Hawks finally get a true star player, and somehow it is a B- pick.

The Hawks then get the best shooter in the draft...a guy who will play in the league a long time simply because he can shoot. A player that many consider to be one of the steals of the draft. Yet, that drops the Hawks grade to a C?

Amazing!

The Hawks had an A+ draft, and it gets an A+ for the simple fact that they got the only player in this draft that will be a superstar in the NBA.

Marvin and Josh don't play the same position. They will be on the floor at the same time, and they will form the best forward tandem in the NBA within two seasons. Both Marvin and Josh have the size and strength to play in the post, and Marvin has the skills to play on the perimeter. No team will be able to guard them, and no team will be able to shoot over them.

[Guest Walter]

...and yet it's an A+ draft.

Puleaze KB.

The quality of this draft for the Hawks is dependent upon alot of other moves. Marvin Williams is not good use of draft capitol if we can't get anything for Harrington to legitimately fill our Pg and C needs. Stoudamire may be to Jay Bilas' liking but there were longer, better true Pgs available with starter quality potential. Stoudamire has never shown the head or heart for the Pg position or defense. Great shooter. GREAT shooter. But...

As far as Marvin, his best attribute is his person. It is this and Roy's dominating system that give me hope for Marvin more than anything.

I don't think there were any perfect options for us at 2. The B- grade reflects that. Deron may have been a B+ for us. Without a trade up or other option unexplored, there was no A+ here, just above average. We either get a player with potential who doesn't fill a team positional need or we get one who does and whose ceiling is PERHAPS a little less (although at a harder position to fill). I err to the later on this one.

W

[KB21]

No it doesn't. The quality of this draft depends upon on player, and that is Marvin Williams. When he becomes the star he is capable of becoming, no one is going to question this pick.

YOU NEVER DRAFT FOR NEED!!! That's what got Portland Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan. That's what got Toronto Rafael Araujo instead of Andre Iguodala last year.

You always draft the best player available.

I suppose Pete Babock's draft in 1999 gets an A since he drafted Cal Bowdler because he needed a power forward/center player, even though he passed up a much better player in James Posey to get him.

Drafting for need and going with the "safe" picks is why Pete Babcock had a horrible drafting record in Atlanta, and it is why his brother Rob is going down the same avenue.

I thank God that Billy Knight doesn't follow the stupid philosophy of passing on the best player simply because you have a need at another position.

[Inside_Man]

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More importantly, Josh and Marvin are the same player positionally. We can't develop 2 identical players positionally at the same time.

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The consensus on the board last year was that ultimately Josh can play the 4. Your point is irrelevent unless you specifically dispute that. It doesn't matter if Marvin is to small to play the 4 unless you believe Josh can't play the 4.

[NickJYD]

I think its funny when people talk about how Ukic is so great and how he is the answer to our prayers. In most cases, these people blowing Ukic's ability have probably never even see the guy play.

Now generally, I think Dickie V can be an idiot, but he is right about one thing: International players are not under the microscope like American players are. You see every game the americans play in, and thus everything they do is critisized and analyzed to the nth degree. The foreign players dont have to endure the same type of analysis.

Further, I like the Marvin pick. As for the Salim pick, he fills a need, that many draft analysts fail to mention. We had ZERO perimeter shooting last year. Now we pick up the best shooter in college last year. Salim was a strong pick at 31.

Then, Walter says Cenk is a great pick. Well, maybe he is, but how would you know? You have never seen him play!!! And there are probably less than 5 people in the city of Atlanta that have.

[Spiral]

I read that Ukic stood the Hawks up for his workout. That most likely damned any future he had with us right there.

[Guest Walter]

I think he's the better player now at a much harder position to fill (whatever position it is that Marvin plays). I think you are mistaking "potential" with not only actual but actual for us. A player with potential but played out of position (Pf) or damaging the potential of another young stud (Josh Smith) does not equate to value.

Just because Marvin MIGHT be a better player (big if) than Deron (so MIGHT Gerald Greene or Cenk for that matter, we don't know since at 18 he's all about potential) it doesn't mean he is, will be, or that even if he is he is more valuable given the relative difficulty of filling either position.

And yes, you do take into account team needs and the potential effect of losing capitol when drafting. When there is a tie taking into account all other factors, as in Marvin and Deron's case, you generally go with position. That all being said, I'm not upset about the Marvin decision. I just don't like the overall draft, meaning that I would have insisted upon filling one team need in this draft. Marvin didn't do that so the onus fell upon doing that with the 1st pick in the 2nd rd. Stoudamire may provide shooting but Ukic was an all-around starter quality Pg available without any significant liabilities. Stoudamire on the other hand is a host of liabilities with one skill. I just don't see the logic in selecting him, particularly when we still lack a Pg and a center.

W

[Guest Walter]

I think Josh Smith will not be a special player as a 4 and should be as a 3. Same with Marvin Williams. THAT'S the problem. The position they could both be "special" at is the same.

W

[Guest Walter]

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Further, I like the Marvin pick. As for the Salim pick, he fills a need, that many draft analysts fail to mention. We had ZERO perimeter shooting last year. Now we pick up the best shooter in college last year. Salim was a strong pick at 31.

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I don't mind the Marvin pick and I certainly understand it. I do mind Salim given we didn't fill a positional need in this draft. Maybe Andriuskevicius or another big would have been better for us. Ukic was my choice.

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Then, Walter says Cenk is a great pick.

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No domestic player left at 59 makes sense to select. Do like SA, draft a young foreigner, keep him overseas 2 years at least and bring him over having kept his rights if he pans out. Would you rather have the next Ginobili or Randolph Morris? Wait we may get both.

[Buzzard]

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I give the draft a C-. We are worse than we were last year, being worse in a bad upcoming draft year does not help us, and I don't think Marvin's potential is all that, much less at a position of need.

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Well, we are worse. So if we win more games this year, we will know you are wrong. When Marvin and SS contribute, we know you are wrong. If people are hyped by Marvin once he gets out on the floor, we know you are wrong.

I just do not understand someone who can bash our draft before Marvin and SS have even played a game. All you so called draft analyst are in for a shock when SS and Marvin start giving us exactatly what we need, offensive punch!

Marvin is going to be a all-star. Marvin was the best player in the draft. Killing me with this crap about taking a PG or big instead.

FYI, after Josh's workouts his stock plumetted last year. By draft night Josh was not projected in the lottery. Some people thought we MAY still take him there but no one was projecting ANYONE ELSE to take Josh in the lotto. Marvin would have been a lottery pick if he had stayed in the draft. His stock went up and not down as the draft got closer.

I am not bashing Josh's talents, it is just a fact that after his workouts people saw his weaknesses and rawness. His handles were not that great nor was his outside shot. Everyone knew he could still jump to the moon. He could not hide his athleticism if he wanted to.

Point is, Josh's weaknessses were Marvin's strenghths. Good shot and good handles. More polished than Josh=a more NBA ready player.

Do I think we got a steal on Josh, absolutely. Do I think we got the best player in the draft this year, absolutely. Moral of this draft for you Marvin bashers, Don't hate the player, hate the game!

[troubleman]

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No it doesn't. The quality of this draft depends upon on player, and that is Marvin Williams. When he becomes the star he is capable of becoming, no one is going to question this pick.

YOU NEVER DRAFT FOR NEED!!! That's what got Portland Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan. That's what got Toronto Rafael Araujo instead of Andre Iguodala last year.

You always draft the best player available.

I suppose Pete Babock's draft in 1999 gets an A since he drafted Cal Bowdler because he needed a power forward/center player, even though he passed up a much better player in James Posey to get him.

Drafting for need and going with the "safe" picks is why Pete Babcock had a horrible drafting record in Atlanta, and it is why his brother Rob is going down the same avenue.

I thank God that Billy Knight doesn't follow the stupid philosophy of passing on the best player simply because you have a need at another position.

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I hate when people use this argument to justify picking Marvin Williams. Your comments read like drafting Deron Williams and Chris Paul would have been a reach, when that is far from the truth. Cal Bowdler should never have been drafted in the 1st round, and it was stupid for the Raptors to draft Rafael Araujo in the lottery. It is not a reach to draft a position of need when the players in question are listed among the top 4 players available in the draft.

I also find it funny that you say that Marvin Williams will be the "star" of the draft when I have heard the same thing about other players in this years draft. I've heard that Gerald Green might be the best player in the draft when it's all said and done. I've heard that Chris Paul maybe the best player in the draft. I've even heard that the Bynum kid might be the best player in the draft.

I wanted a point guard or bogut, but Williams is a Hawk now, and I will embrace him just like I embraced the Josh Childress pick last year.

[Gray Mule]

Wow !!

Walter & Diesel in an argument. Nothing new here.

They're both on the same side???

WOW!!! That IS news!!!

While I don't necessarily agree with either of them,

great to see both names in the same topic under discussion.

POTENTIAL. Every draft pick is based on potential.

No one really knows how these kids will make out in

the NBA. We have their past preformances in school

to base our educated guesses upon, but, we don't really

know how they will work out.

PROJECTION. Based on our guesswork and past school

preormance AND workouts under the supervision of NBA

people, these youngsters are then projected to fill

a position on a team.

Another thing that must be considered. Young players

taken in the draft sometimes grow. As they mature,

gain experience by actually playing, they usually

improve their NBA game.

We tend to try to put all players into a convenient

mold into which we believe all players must fit.

All PF players MUST be an exact size. A SF player

must be a different size. A shooting guard can't be

this size either.

If we put our #2 overall pick on the floor with our

two first round picks from last season, the Hawks are

suddenly the laughing stock of the NBA. You CAN'T do

that!! They must all be different sizes! Don't you

Hawk people know anything ????

My gosh. What if they do that and win a game. Oh, the

horrow of it all!

And, they had the nerve to draft what almost everyone

says was the truest, pure shooter in the draft at #31.

He plays guard. The Hawks desperately needed a guard.

They desperately needed someone to stem the tide when

they go into their famous 'SLEEPWALK" mode, which they

have managed to do with three different head coaches

and a completely different roster.

Horrows!

We were told at last year's draft, our second pick of

the first round had the POTENTIAL to be the worst player

taken in the draft. There's that word again.

Now, do our two draft picks this year have POTENTIAL?

Sure. What kind?

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Either the Hawks have two very good players or we have

been sold out by all we've seen and been told.

[sick_five]

If BK only had a two-year plan for this team, I might be upset about this draft. Right now it's about stockpiling talent and filling the team with guys who can play, not checking off a position list... especially when FA lies ahead and this team is probably still a little young to win consistently...

There will be bigs and PGs in FA this year and next, as well as in next year's draft. If your team is deeper in talent, however, you have more options when trading for positions that you do need. JMO.