Brian's trade of the day

[Guest]

Shareef Abdur Rahim/1rst rounder for Ray Allen.They have almost

the exact same contract.But he one of the best SG's in the league

and the Bucks get a low post scorer:

We also get a player that isn't a coward in the 4th period.

Jason Terry

Ray Allen

Big Dog

Theo Ratliff

Nazr Mohammad

Maybe we can get EJ in the deal also.We lose nothing on rebounding

and we have a bigget lineup.

[Guest]

Sure SAR is a better PF than Theo,but Ray Allen is three times

the player Dermarr will ever be.

Besides,So far it has been proven that when Shareef is your

best player you aren't going anywhere.Not even to 35 wins.

[Traceman]

What if Theo's injury problems resurface? You end up with Nazr and Hendu (who's also coming off an injury) as your starting frontcourt. No thanks! In addition, we already have two terrific perimeter players in JT and Big Dog while Reef is by far our best low post threat. If we traded Reef for Allen, we would become Milwaukee south with JT replacing Cassell in the Big 3. As we are constructed now, I think we are better than Milwaukee because we have a legitimate low post scorer.

As for the shot at Reef saying he's a coward in the 4th, that's ridiculous. The truth is that his game is not one that is designed to create his own shot and that makes it difficult for him to score when he gets doubled in the 4th. Now that we have JT and Big Dog though, I look for Reef to get better looks in the 4th anyway. Besides, I like JT as our go to guy in the 4th.

[Guest]

No it isn't crazy,Reef's handles are subpar and that causes him

to turn the ball over.He simply can't do any ball handling.

"The truth is that his game is not one that is designed to create

his own shot and that makes it difficult for him to score when he

gets doubled in the 4th."

He lacks atheletic abilty.ALot of things are a struggle for Reef.Getting

up and down the court in a fast paced game,playing defense,passing

out of double teams,not turning the ball over.

Besides,while Shareef can play 3/4 of the game Allen can play the whole

game.

Here is a big stat:

Ray Allen 26 playoff games:47% 24PPG 5APG 6RPG

Shareef playoff games:What's the playoffs?

[thecampster]

You know for as awful as you say Shareef is as an athlete, he must be one hell of an over acheiver to average

21 points, 9 boards and 3 assists for your career.

[Guest]

When you see him play Webber and KG he is way outclass and

his lack of atheletic ability shows really badly.He could barely

get his shot off againest Webber.KG abused him pretty good

also.

"21 points, 9 boards and 3 assists for your career."

What about 25PPG 11RPG 4APG...at 12 million and two lotto picks

and Lo that is the production he should be giving us.

[Diesel]

Rule number two in basketball trades:

Never trade Good Big for Good Small.

Allen is good but he's not Tmac, Carter, or Kobe.

Point being that SAR is much too good to give away for Just Allen. Then you throw a first rounder in the mix like Allen is better than SAR? YOU need to check SAR's value. He's much better than you give him credit for being. Easily the BEST PF in the East. Has a really good mix of midrange and post up game. An Allstar. You don't trade that for a Allen Houston like SG.

A better deal would be:

SAR/1st to Orlando for Tmac.

Especially if Grant Hill is healthy.

[Diesel]

KG validates his 21 million dollar contract by saying he put up 21, 9, and 5 last yr. Hell, SAR put up 21, 9, and 3 over his career. It's a shame that Reef is never getting his credit. For an undersized(?) PF, Reef cannot be stopped one on one in the post. He put up 50 on Ben Wallace (one on one). So, when teams doubled him last yr and tripled him, they were able to hold up his progress. Well, now that we got the big Dog.....! Reef will put up really big numbers.

[Guest]

No you overrated Shareef.Best PF in the east??Sorry that goes to

Jermaine O'Neal(and he's younger aswell)

Much too good????lol we would be in the playoffs in that case.Reef

doesn't know what playoffs is and it is questionable if he ever will

or not.Where is our playoff birth?That's right it didn't happen.

"It's a shame that Reef is never getting his credit. For an undersized(?)"

Get credit for what?What has he done in the league besides put up

numbers for 3 periods and dissapear?Play 3/4 of a game.

"KG validates his 21 million dollar contract by saying he put up 21, 9,

and 5 last yr."

KG is much better than Reef.WHen we play Minnesota it was clear that

KG was alot better than Reef.Reef looked totally outmatched as Reef

also does with Dirk and Webber/Duncan also.Brand also got the better

of Reef when we played the Clippers.

KG averages like 11RPG not 9. Plus KG is alot better defender and can

play atleast 4 positions on the court.

KG averaged 21/11/5, where you got 9 rebounds I don't know..

[Guest]

Allen is better than Reef.He actually gets is team to the playoffs

instead of 30 wins.Hell Memphis wouldn't give you Gasol for Reef

str8 up.Reef's value isn't as much as you think it is.

"A better deal would be:

SAR/1st to Orlando for Tmac."

LOL you are funny.

[thecampster]

In response to:

"Allen is better than Reef.He actually gets is team to the playoffs instead of 30 wins"

With Allen on the floor, the bucks lost 7 of their last 10 games to miss the playoffs.

IF he so clutch in the 4th, then what's up with this artical from yahoo.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recaps/20020412/milind.html

This is from the next to last loss of the year for the bucks that would've pushed them to the playoffs.

"INDIANAPOLIS (TICKER) -- If the Milwaukee Bucks miss the playoffs, they may look back to the night sharpshooter Ray Allen missed a pair of layups."

oops.

I hate agreeing with Diesel. I truly don't like trading, but prefer building thru the draft and coaching...but he's plain right here. Reef is a top 10 PF in this league. 21/9 and 3. You can't argue that and he did it while the object of constant double teams and hard fouls. You don't trade that for a shooting guard who can't play "D". Never ever ever trade size....ever.

[Traceman]

versus Reef's teammates. All Reef really had was a young, inexperienced PG in Mike Bibby and another inexperienced SG in Dickerson. That's it. Allen had Cassell, Big Dog and Tim Thomas to help him out. If Reef had played for the Bucks last year and Allen had played for us, Milwaukee would have been a sure fire playoff team and we would have been worse than we were. If Milwaukee had Reef, Mason, anm All Star just a year ago, would have been coming off the bench!

[Guest]

WHen has Reef EVER steped up when we have really needed him?

That's right never just like Vancouver fans told us.And to the

other dude..Ray atleast takes the shots.He doesn't pass open

jumpers to a teammate for a long 3 pointer when he heavy guarded.

[Guest]

ilwaukee would have been a sure fire playoff team and

we would have been worse than we were."

How do you know this?Reef isn't better than Allen sorry.

Only Hawk fans believe this sort of non sense.It's kinda

tough to tell someone how great a player is and he hasn't

been to the playoffs in his 7 year career.

[Gray Mule]

When one player's team goes to the playoffs, does that

mean that he is automatically superior to any player

who's team did not make it? That seems to be the heart

of the discussion.

No! No! No! In an individual sport, this is true. Boxing,

Tennis and Golf come to mind. If you win constantly in

one of these sports, you are and should be considered

to be "The Best" or "TheGreatest" as Casius Clay

proclaimed himself. Then, there is Tiger Wood!

In a team sport, one player may excell but if he doesn't

have other superior players with him, chances of the team

"Winning it all" are dim. Check out the late Ted

Williams, proclaimed, and rightly so, one of the greatest

hitters of all time and the last man to hit over .400

for an entire season. Then, check out the Red Sox, the

team he played for and see how many World Series that

they won while he was on that team.

Other teams must have thought SAR was pretty darned good. They committed double and triple teams on him

in the fourth quarter, effectively shutting him down in

many instances. With the addition of "Big Dawg" and

Theo Ratliff on the floor with Jason and SAR in the

forth quarter now and see what happens.

Gray Mule

[Guest]

Other teams must have thought SAR was pretty darned good. They committed

double and triple teams on him"

But then when you comeback to earth you realize the other guys are

Hanno Mottola/Ira Newble/Nazr Mohammad/Dermarr and you realize

these guys don't produce on offense at a high level so why not

double Shareef?

There is a old saying....In the reg season you make your name,but in

the playoffs you make your fame...We Shareef is what?a 7 year vet

and has yet to get close to playoff experience.

You can blame in on lack of talent if you want,but Tim Duncan and

Tony Parker are the only quaility players on the Spurs and they

manage to play at a high level.David is old and Smith isn't even

a decent player anymore as shown by doing nothing in the playoffs

last year.

[Guest]

Look,It looks like with the exception of one player our team

is set.If we aren't winning in mid December we should trade

either JT or DJ or whomever we feel is the most responsable

for us losing.

Honestly trading Shareef doesn't cure all our problems but I

would seriousally consider the trade due to some of the problems

Shareef has and the fact you have to go away from him at

crunch time is not so good.We shouldn't have to go to other

options in the 4th.Your best player is supposed to step up at

these times.

Maybe I use Shareef as a whipping boy to much.but it makes

me sick how people want to trade the only player we have that

will even make a effort to step up when needed while the other

guys on the team dissappear when needed.

[jaywalker72]

He stepped up all year for this team...

Who was it carrying the team for quarters at a time from the inside with two or three players hanging off of him and not getting any calls?

Who was it that brought the Hawks from behind to get past the Pistons the night after Thanksgiving, scoring 50 points against the Defensive Player of the Year?

Who was it that scored 30 points and grabbed 11 rebounds in a dominant game against Rasheed Wallace and POR?

Who was it that dominated the Heat when Miami tried to cover him with Brian Grant and Alonzo Mourning?

Who was it that tore up the Eastern Conference champion Nets, scoring 34?

Who crushed the Grizzlies, Bulls, and the Knicks and any other patsy who tried to single team him?

And who knocked down the Hornets by taking over in the fourth quarter and slamming home the finish?

Yes, Shareef passed up a shot that could have won it in Toronto (BTW, he passed it to Emanual, not JT), but that was only one case where Shareef didn't take the shot.

Shareef saw double-team after double-team last year, took a pounding, and got few calls for his efforts.

In the fourth quarter, teams tend to want to take away the oppositions best players by sending more double teams their way. Who would you guess is widely considered to be our best player? (Hint: Judging by the NBA Nations comments, they don't think it's JT)

So Shareef isn't a crotch-grabbing grandstander wanting the world to take notice of his "mere" 21 points and 9 rebounds.

So what.

I am not saying the man is untradable, but give the man a little due for his very hard and effective work last year.

He is not a scrub, he is an All-Star, and I am appreciative of his high level of play...

[Guest]

The problem is this...the effect of that is less if you are turning

the ball over in crunch time.Say what you want,but this is when

it counts.

I'm not denying that Reef does well in 3 periods..however he is

often not there in the most important part of the game.This is

were guys like Paul Pierce make a name for themselves.Lead

the NBA in 4th period points.This is how teams win games.This

is how Boston will win more games than us again.

"

Yes, Shareef passed up a shot that could have won it in Toronto

(BTW, he passed it to Emanual, not JT), but that was only one

case where Shareef didn't take the shot."

But when has he done it?

"He is not a scrub, he is an All-Star, and I am appreciative of his high

level of play..."

We gave up alot to get him.Can you honestly say he was worth Lo/Q

Richardson/Pau Gasol?We traded Lo for two lotto picks(I'll say Lo is

one lotto pick)and then there is Q Richardson and Gasol who will

probably pass Shareef sooner rather than later all by himself.I didn't

include Brevin because getting rid of him is a good thing.

With everything we gave up for him he should be pulling in 25PPG/11RPG/

4APG and should be a top 5 PF in the league.

Shareef is a good player and the best player we have.However,I have

to admit I am alittle dissapointed.I figured his production would have

improved this year.Instead he hasn't improved since like his 2nd year

in the league.

He is better than Marion and some others.But he isn't a top 5 PF and

he isn't better than O'Neal or Ray Allen either.

[Traceman]

ARR has no respect for Reef and Diesel has none for JT. Craziness...