Diesel Reveals the truth about Dickau.

[Diesel]

You keep mentioning how JT played PG for so many games. That means that Vaughn basically played with the same pieces that JT did. Why did the offense run well under Vaughn?

How is it that in limited time with the same players that JT had that Knight was able to manage 6.1 apg on the yr? Good PGs who can run the offense gets assists regaurdless of who they are playing with.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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Toni-Declining old man that doesn't have the same skills anymore.

The guy stunk with Philly...Why didn't Snow make him better??Overall...

he is a PG isn't he?

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After the trade to Atlanta, Toni averaged 19.2 ppg, 5+ apg, and he had 3 triple doubles. Is that Stinking? Is that declining?

In reply to:

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Nazr-I don't know what happend to this guy.He lost his hustle

after being given the contract.Factor in that after we traded

for him he averaged 13PPG 9RPG and shot close to 49% and

worked hard and got alot of junk baskets.This year his lazy

butt done nothing but shoot jumpshots and he is slower than

even Todd McColluagh.

---

Do you believe he lost his hustle? This coincides with Toni. When Nazr came over, the offense ran through Toni. What a big difference in the numbers when Toni didn't play as much. Nazr is a har worker, yes... But you insist on calling him lazy... That's junk.

[Diesel]

First off, I don't think Dickau is a Natural POint? I don't ever remember saying that. I said that he would probably pick up the PG position faster than JT has. To be more complete, JT doesn't really have a fiber of PG running in his body. Instinctually, he has always been a 2. The only reason he plays or has ever played the 1 is because of his size. That said, I think Dickau is the same type player as JT. He's a scorer... Had to be at Gonzaga because there was no one else. However, I think that he can be a POint as well.

In reply to:

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Do you rather have a JT avg 18ppg, 7.0 apg, 2.0 spg & 3.5 rpg or Do you rather have a Dan Dickau which I'm speculating that these will be his avgs as a starter) 12.5 ppg, 7.0 apg, 3.0 rpg & 1.2 spg.....

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I would rather have whichever guy makes our offense works.

JT scoring 18 ppgs is good but what we really need is a guy who can get the ball to Big Dog and SAR in scoring positions AND be a three point threat at the same time. JT may be this guy... However, he has to start thinking like a PG. If he thinks Me score first and if I can't score I will pass it to Big Dog or SAR then we might as well call our season over. That's really what happened and caused the demise in Milwaukee. Cassell is not apt to be an assist PG. He's a shoot first PG and I remember JT remarking that shoot first was one of the points of advice that Cassell gave him. The problem is that it makes the other guys lose trust in their point. So instead of waiting for a play to develop, all the guys will start going one on one. Because basically they have no leadership on the floor.

Secondly, you said that JT is a "natural Leader". What do you mean?

The signs of a leader is that people follow him. FOR the Hawks JT is NOT the Leader. The Leader is Shareef. JT is talkative. Loves to sit parked behind a Mic. Has good team spirit. Will show up to team press conferences and stuff. Will probably make a very good assistant Coach, Coach, or GM when his career is over. BUT players don't follow his lead.

Remember when he complained because Dion wouldn't work out with him a few yrs ago.

Now look at all the signs.

1. Voluntary workouts organized by....... SAR.

2. Dion and DJ under the wings of .........SAR.

3. Dj using the personal chef of and weight training with....SAR.

4. On the floor, the guy they all look to is ......SAR.

JT will hit a clutch shot, talk to the news cameras, host a few celebrity games but the leader is SAR. The Guy that other teams say " we must stop" is SAR.

[JTFan31]

Thank you Jaywalker, for showing Mr. know it all Kings fan the truth.

[Guest]

That was a 12 game period dude.After they booed him out of

Philly(here is where he doesn't produce were he is counted on)

What did he do for us this year?THat's right 9.9PPG

He came here with limited expectations and he did well in 14

games.14 games isn't a whole lot.What did he do when he

was COUNTED ON as a third option?He sucked this year.Three

years ago Hakeem was averaging around 15PPG...Would you

expect that off him now that he has aged even more?

"Do you believe he lost his hustle?"

Yeah when he stops crashing the boards and starts firing

jumpers I'd say he did.The dude can barely even dunk and

he is 6'11.You could see the difference in how he played.I

remember when you were thinking he would easy replace a

allstar center.funny stuff.And why wouldn't he lose his

hustle?He was given a 5 million a year bloated contract.

"his coincides with Toni. When Nazr came over, the offense

ran through Toni. What a big difference in the numbers when

Toni didn't play as much. Nazr is a har worker"

There is a reason winning teams don't give Toni the ball.Because

you don't win that way.And I'm talking about junk baskets.Mohammad

turned into a short jump shooter.I guess Toni not starting was the

reason his blocks were down this year...Is that right also?

You struggle to understand the difference between impact

players and players with bloated stats.You fail to see the

difference.And you try and turn a 9PPG scorer into a 20PPG

scorer that averaged 19PPG for a couple of games.Toni/JJ are

bloated stats players.Romac was averaging 10PPG with us

when we traded him but not he can't even play anymore.

BLOATED STATS

Another reason for Toni's bloated 14 game stats was that his

minutes were limited in the first half.I bet if you go look at his

season splits he produced less in the second half of the season

this year.

"But you insist on calling him lazy... That's junk."

Yes I do because he is lazy.He fouls alot,he can barely dunk

due to him not being in great shape and he didn't improve in

the slightest this year.IF anything he regressed

So what have we learned.....Toni averaged 19PPG 1 1/2 ago in

14 games on a horrible team and so he is a player worthy of

something on a team looking to make the playoffs?He was

very much a washed up player this season.His good games

were very limited.

Do you realize how dumb you sound?Toni's worth is nothing.He

was allowed to be a play maker on a extremely bad team that

wasn't even looking to win at the time just like when he played

with the Bullsin the latter years.However when we were expect

to win(esp in the second half)he was left in the dust.

Knock Knock Knock!Hello McFly wakeup and realize what you are

saying is moronic.

[JTFan31]

I'll keep this short and simple bud, but let me explain what ARR meant to say, maybe you didnt get it. JT really only had Reef to pass to, while when Vaughn started he had remember Reef and JT....you forgot JT was the starting sg when Vaughn was starting at the point, while JT only had Reef as a real threat.

[Guest]

How is it that in limited time with the same players that

JT had that Knight was able to manage 6.1 apg on the

yr? Good PGs who can run the offense gets assists re-

gaurdless of who they are playing with."

Which do you want?Bloated stats or wins?Jt got us wins

at PG...how many games did Brevin Knight win us?Not

very many.

You take your 6.1APG in losses and I'll take JT's numbers

in wins.JT averaged more than that at PG anyway.

"That means that Vaughn basically played with the same

pieces that JT did."

HOW?Vaughn is passing to JT/SAR that is TWO 20PPG SCORERS

When JT is at PG his second option is Mohammad you idiot.How is

that the same pieces?Is Nazr as good of a scorer as JT?

Is Terry/Newble/SAR/Nazr(Vaughn at PG)

the same as :

Dermarr/Newble/SAR/Nazr(JT at PG)

Is that the same pieces?Look at the lineups closely...they are

not the same.Dermarr is not JT on the offensive end.Do you

not realize this?

You have been schooled.You got no defense and when you do

that you side steps facts.It's alot easier to pass to JT/SAR than

it is DJ/SAR when JT plays PG.It's the"the same pieces"you are

just wrong and you know it.

While you continue to think Dermarr is the same at SG as JT the

smart people can see the obvious difference between JT and

Dermarr at SG.

[Guest]

You knows what I am talking about he just side steps

facts like he always does when he gets schooled.

He's talking about how great Brevin Knight is averaging

6.1APG in losses while JT is averaging 6.9APG in winning

games the second half of the year.lol I just laugh at

him.Not only is 90% of his trades terrible but so are alot

of other things.

[Guest]

"leader is SAR. The Guy that other teams say " we must stop" is SAR."

Leaders pass open shots in the clutch to guys getting double teamed?

Nice leadership.That must be why he is the guy that never leads

his teams to wins....Nice going....

"The signs of a leader is that people follow him."

You right str8 in the gutter and losing.

"Secondly, you said that JT is a "natural Leader". What do you mean?"

Well he tries to win games.His desire to win is more than anybody

elses on the team.Who took the final shot in route to beating Chi-

cago?He took the big shots in route to us beating Cleveland in

overtime?Who made these things happen?Reef makes a couple

baskets,dissappears for long time...makes couple of baskets....

dissappears....and he is nowhere to be found when your best player

is supposed to win games.

It's pathetic that Reef is supposed to be our best player yet we have

to give the ball to JT at clutch times.Reef is our best stats player,but

JT is a guy that will win you more games.

"Now look at all the signs.

1. Voluntary workouts organized by....... SAR.

2. Dion and DJ under the wings of .........SAR.

3. Dj using the personal chef of and weight training with....SAR.

4. On the floor, the guy they all look to is ......SAR."

Maybe this is why we only won 33 games.We also had injuries,but

alot of those league leading injury was bloated.Like Email.His games

out should be knocked off because he isn't even a important player

to the team.

[Diesel]

That for JT, his stats are good because they are "good".

But when it's BK, Toni or anybody else who played at the same time that JT was getting those "good" stats, their stats are "BLOATED"??

Your hypocrisy runs deep there Hotlanta dude.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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leader is SAR. The Guy that other teams say " we must stop" is SAR."

Leaders pass open shots in the clutch to guys getting double teamed?

Nice leadership.That must be why he is the guy that never leads

his teams to wins....Nice going....

---

So by YOUR standards... SHAQ is NOT The leader of the Lakers... >HOWEVER HORRY IS??

According to your own SAD rationalization, Horry is the leader of the Lakers. BEcause every time they need a Clutch Shot... It's Horry for three and the win!

So is that what you're saying?

Horry is the leader of the Lakers?

Ya know, I've never seen Shaq attempt a game winner. HE MUST NOT BE A LEADER according to you?!

LOL!!!!!

[JTFan31]

I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Reef and now Big Dog, these are our 2 horses now and our 2....20 ppg players, and I actually think these guys are awesome basketball players, and I love having them in Atlanta. But lets go back to when I said JT is a "natural leader" and IMO I said yes he is, he is the leader, heart and soul of this franchise, no questions ask. Yes Reef does his thing off the courts and also on, and I'm damn glad he does, but the reality is when the game is on the line and we need a big shot for either a win or tie, WHO STEPS UP TO THE PLATE?

CASE CLOSED, because we all know very well who it is.

[Diesel]

JT had 4 other guys on the team with him.

There was always someone to pass to. Are you suggesting that JT needs a squad filled with Allstars to be a good PG?

I bring up again the example of Darryl Armstrong. A few yrs ago before acquiring Tmac. Doc Rivers took Armstrong and a bunch of guys who did not make the allstar roster and they put together many victories. Armstrong dished out many assists and made them all look good.

I bring up the example of Jason Kidd in Phoenix before acquiring Matrix. Kidd didn't have anybody there. There was uncle Cliffy and that's it. Googs was sorry. Penny was Hurt.. But did that stop Kidd from being a premeire PG in the league?

What am I saying. It's not the team that Makes the PG better. It's the PG that makes the team Better. JT might not have had a team full of Allstars but the way that he played suggested that he was not out to make anybody better anyway.

IN Short, right now, his game is similar to Marbury. Yes, Marbury will put up some great stats... However, Marbury will not make those around him better.

[Guest]

1)We never had a winning record with Toni or Brevin Startring

did we?We weren't winning with these guys in the starting lineup.

However when we moved JT to starting PG we started winning.

Toni put up decent numbers for a 14 game stint and he also did

it on a 19 win Bulls team WITH ELTON BRAND.Very impressive

there Toni.....He put up 18.8PPG on a 19 win team.That is exactually

what I am talking about.We wasn't this bad with JT as our only

option.

We count on JT and he produces...WHen you count on Toni

he gives you squat just like he did this year and just like he

did in Philly.Unless you try and force Toni to be your best

player he doesn't produce anymore.

Toni is a guy that will put up numbers on a EXTREMELY bad

team.Ditto for JJ.

It's pretty simple.Toni averaged 19PPG for 14 games a year and

a half ago and you act like that means jackshit now when he is

nearing two years older.

[Guest]

I've seen Shaq when games.But Phil Jackson is the Lakers

leader.You know,one of the best coaches in the NBA that

you take credit from all the time.Funny you take credit away

from winners and you credits guys that lose.

Horry usally hits OPEN shots.The kind of shots Reef passes up

for the sake of guys in double coverage.

[Guest]

I bring up again the example of Darryl Armstrong. A few yrs ago

before acquiring Tmac. Doc Rivers took Armstrong and a bunch

of guys who did not make the allstar roster and they put together

many victories. Armstrong dished out many assists and made

them all look good."

That team won 41 games....We had a better winning percentage

with JT at PG the second half of the season.And Doc is a hellva

lot better coach than Lon is...And they had a defender at center

that was better than they thought he was in Ben Wallace.

"Yes, Marbury will put up some great stats... However, Marbury

will not make those around him better."

We won more games than New Jersey won with Marbury as a

PG.We won equally as many that year with Jt as

our first option.

"But did that stop Kidd from being a premeire PG in the league? "

Kidd is the best freakin PG in the league.You expect JT to compete

with the best rebounding PG and a all team defender??This logic

is so screwed up.Kidd is better than alot of guys including the

other pure PG's in the league.Kidd is a great rebounder for his

poisition aswell as a defender and a decent 15PPG.

"It's the PG that makes the team Better."

It's kind of hard to make guys like DJ better when he stands at

the 3pt line no matter who is at PG.Everyone talks about DJ

improving at SG the second half of the season....well who was

starting at PG when this took place?

The natural thought is that if guys like Vaughn and Knight make

everybody so much better how come they don't win games

for you.I want to win games,and if JT does that at PG that

is what I care about.

If we aren't winning by the allstar break someone has to be moved

for a starting PG.I'm sure there will be guys out there for a trade.We

should ATLEAST be 6 games over .500 at the allstar break.If we aren't

then trades have to be made.

[Diesel]

If hitting the big Shot when the game is on the line makes you the team leader, heart and soul and all that... Then ROBERT Horry is all that for the Lakers... Right. I mean to hell with Shaq and Kobe. Who needs them when you got Robert Horry!

[Diesel]

Again. Using your sad logic.. I guess that neither JT nor SAR is the Leader of the Hawks... BUT Lon Kruger is. No wonder we have done so badly since the departure of the great one.

[Diesel]

On the one hand you complain about JT not having anyone to pass to on the other you're saying that the numbers that Toni put up or that Lo put up or that Brevin Put up or that Nazr put up were all Bloated?

You can't have BOTH so which excuse do you prefer to use? Do you believe that JT had no one to pass to when there was 19 ppg Toni and 15 ppg Nazr.

OR

Do you believe that those numbers were a figment of our imagination and that Wins are the only stat that really counts?

Logic suggests that if all you care about is wins then it was JT's failing that caused the Hawks to Fail.

If you believe that he didn't have anyone around him then EXPLAIN the Stats before you? Explain why it is that other PGs can have less to work with than JT had and still do better?

Your failing is that you need to learn:

1. Basketball is a TEAM SPORT.

2. Wins Depend on Good offense and Defense.

3. There are no such things as Bloated Stats.

[Guest]

Again. Using your sad logic.. I guess that neither JT nor SAR is the

Leader of the Hawks... BUT Lon Kruger is. No wonder we have done

so badly since the departure of the great one."

Well the Lakers didn't win any titles til Phil got there.

Us?Well we haven't ever really accomplished anything of importance

so it;s kinda hard to tell about is isn't it?