Diesel Reveals the truth about Dickau.

[Diesel]

1. We needed a BU PG? What about Vaughn? He went for 1 million. Surely we could have afforded that. What about Email? He's still under contract. More than a BU. IN fact, DD is insurance. Babcock went out and got someone who could possibly compete with JT for the starting position.

Economically, what happens when JT is up for renewal?? With:

Theo/Nazr/Hendu/SAR/Toni/Dj all under contract, it will be difficult to pay JT his worth especially if we are not a playoff team. Especially if we are not filling the PHil. Why do you think that Babcock made the "Money back Gaurantee"? It sorta set the table with his higher ups... Because he's basically putting his job on the line for a playoff birth.

But the point is that If JT is not able to be the PG we need him to be, it's good economic sense to trade him for DD at the right time. If you look closely, you see that we have not given him or talked about an extension at all.

In reply to:

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)"Also, where is the LONG term commitment to JT?"

Wheres the LONG TERM COMMITMENT to RASHARD LEWIS? C'mon, the NBA is a business... it takes time for 2 sides to complete a deal. Im not saying that JT will automatically get his extension, but DIESEL... give it some time MAN...

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Actually, if you really want to use Lewis, last yr and this yr Seattle offered Lewis a long term deal. Right now they feel that they have him over a barrell moneywise. Eventually, he will have to take the deal that they are offering if getting paid is his motive. But Last yr after Toronto offered him a long term deal, Seattle countered and it was LEWIS who asked for a shorter deal with a player option this yr. He thought he could retest the market.

However, Look at JT's class once again:

Marion - Extension.

Turk - Extension.

Davis - Extension.

Miller - Extension.

Wally ?

Halmilton ?

Francis - Extension.

'Even in the yr after...

Miller - Team option.

Martin - Team Option.

Where's the longterm investment? There is none because Babs is waiting to see how he plays and if it's not significantly better than the rookie Dickau, JT might be sent away with Hendu to alleviate cap.

[Diesel]

Hey ARR, I rechecked it....

http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/Dickau_Press..._-48098-33.html

It wasn't the 14th, it was the 18th pick... My fault.. However:

In reply to:

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We started working probably around the 18th pick and by the time it became a real possibility to acquire a pick with the 28th pick. Lucky he didn't slip much futher, for Dan's sake and for our sake.

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URGENCY.

[Guest Walter]

then DD will represent starter quality (not necessarily star quality).

Since Cookie and Penn are still without an NBA team, likely not to be on a team, and if they are ever on a team far more likely to never be more than a 3rd string, meaning NOT a "servicable" BU, PG, I feel pretty safe in saying that DD won't be a starter for some time. Truth be known, DD will likely be a starter in this league for some team before Penn and Cookie ever become a part of a team's second team. However, it seems that he will never be a star, something JT

will be before Cookie and Penn make a roster, much less become servicable BUs on one.

W

[chillzatl]

how ignorant can you be? If they were desperately seeking a potential replacement for JT, they wouldn't go digging under a log for some guy who probably wouldn't have even gone top 35 had it not been for us. They would have made a trade to get a PROVEN PLAYER. Wake up and smell the coffee guy. You are grasping for straws. That is not a move of urgency. If you hadn't already suggested it was you wouldn't even be argueing the point. But if you didn't argue then that might mean someone else actually had a valid thought, idea or opinion and Diesel can't admit that such a thing is possible! HAH.

[beav]

"they wouldn't go digging under a log for some guy who probably wouldn't have even gone top 35"

in all fairness, I read that golden state was crushed when dickau was selected by the hawks right in front of them... they ended up selecting a 5-10 point guard from cincinnati instead...

[chillzatl]

the point is that picking Dickau was in no way a sign of urgency. Diesel wants everyone to believe that the Hawks were scrambling to find a PG who could lead this team in the event that JT can't get it done. I refuse to believe that they would dare pin such high expectations on a player like Dickau.

I'm not saying that if it does come to that and Dickau is put in that situation, that he will not succeed, not at all! If that does happen then I hope to god that he can do it. But I will not accept that they picked him with that in mind. Nobody is going to select a player that late in the draft with the blind assumption that they are going to be able to lead an NBA team.

I will accept that a team would select such a player in the hopes that they could work with him and help him grow into that role. But even GS wouldn't have picked him with the mindset that "Man we're going to bring this guy in and he's going to run our team!", NO WAY. And you aren't going to make a pick like that as INSURANCE for a proven player. That is not insurance, that's a BLIND GAMBLE. It's also a gamble that has Lon Kruger and Pete Babcocks JOBS attached to it. Because if JT doesn't succeed at the point this year, the Hawks are out 500k+ and both of those guys are likely out of their jobs.

[beav]

Q - "I know we have a point guard already, and a great one in Jason Terry. But, I continue to read things that say "Terry is just more comfortable at the shooting guard position," and "the Hawks are looking for a point guard." Can you tell me definitively, that we are not in search of a point guard (obviously, I am taking into consideration that nobody on our team is untouchable, given the right trade). I just want to continue to write and report as I have been that JT is the Hawks point guard, barring a trade that would send him away." -- Jason Walker

A - As you know things are not quite that simple.....JT is our point guard for the future, UNLESS we acquire a better point guard. The three guards in the East we have to compete with are Kidd, Davis, Miller....and a few bigger points like Alvin Williams...we do need more size and defense if we can get it...but only at a very high level. JT has a natural scorer's mentality which is good...and he is not a true point in the Stockton sense or definition, but not many are.

here is a Q and A with Petey boy right before the draft... did he have dickau in mind? I agree with you that he *probably* did not but we won't know that until at least halfway into the season if not much later...

one other thing to keep in mind is that the hawks were also trying to move up to take juan dixon but were very surprised that the wizards to him so early... so their board was:

1) dixon

2) dickau

in that order... the problem with dixon (according to the pundits, I'm not informed enough on his game) is that he is as much of a tweener as JT...

also in regards to the warriors, you've probably not seen enough warriors games in your life to know how they think (more than a dozen would clue you in that they are probably the most clueless franchise in the nba)... they were actually looking to *larry hughes* to be their starting PG last year, with that ancient golf-playin' practice-skippin' mookster as the backup... dickau's grandmother would be an upgrade over that...BTW guess who was starting for them at PG by the end of last year? 2nd round rookie pick gilbert arenas...

[chillzatl]

He said there, unless we aquire a BETTER PG. Dickau is a prospect and NOTHING MORE. He is not better and assuming he will be is a gamble. Pete is not a dumb man and he's not going to make a gamble on the HOPE that Dickau could have a bigger impact than a 20/6 player like JT. To do so would be dumb. Not that DD isn't talented. But anyone who today says that DD will be better than JT, will be a starter quality PG in this league or will live up to the hype that some have built around him are doing nothing but blowing smoke out of their a$$es. Because NOBODY can predict that and nothing about his college career indicates that. If he were a dominant player in college and a world class PG, myself and most others would conceed that. But he was neither. So projecting that he will ever be anything more than what he is today (a backup), is foolish. He may become more than that. But projecting that he was brought here in the hopes that he will, out of desperation or insurance, is again, FOOLISH. And as I said, Pete is not a fool, especially after all the things he's put on the line this season.

[Diesel]

DD turns out to be a better PG than JT? You can say all you want about JT this and JT that. Economically, Chemistry-wise, and commonsense says that if DD plays the PG position better than JT does, then JT will be used in a trade to help get rid of Hendu's salary.

Secondly, I think that our draft was specifically to look for a PG. IN this case Dickau. I wouldn't be surprised if it were Babcocks plan all along to trade up into the first round for a shot at a PG. NOT to be just a backup, but to possibly take over the PG of the future Moniker. That suggests that there was a sense of URGENCY. Close your eyes if you want. Say it aint so if you want, but when Babcock says that NOBODY is Untradable, that includes JT. Reason being is that if JT cannot run the big Red Machine then we need to get rid of him and Hendu in trade. Playing him at SG is not a really good option.

[Guest]

In a way, it's sort of a win win situation for the Hawks. Having multiple 1st round picks over the upcoming years, we had the luxury of being able to sacrifice a pick to obtain a bu pointguard, the primary hole existing in our lineup (somewhat in hindsight with the Robinson trade). But fact of the matter is, we obtained someone with some name recognition that might fill a few more seats to the Phil. If he does turn out to be the second coming of stockton with a new look (more scoring as most pg's today are doing) and a better pg than Terry, then yes, Terry might be traded. I'd rather JT flourish at the point and us have a problem with finding time for a promising DD and mulling our options.

But I really don't think the drafting of DD was a bad thing - we needed a bu pg that was wouldn't necessarily take minutes from the JT experiment. We did that in obtaining someone with an "upside."

[chillzatl]

If that's the way things turn out, fine. I'm not all pro-JT or anti-DD. I'm 'anti-agree with everything diesel says'. You set yourself up for it by insisting that moving up a few spots to get a PG shows some sort of urgency on the part of the Hawks. That's simly absurd and like I said, if someone else had came up with it first, you would agree.

As I've said many times already in this thread and you never seem to comment on (as you so often do when someone makes a point that negates your own), was that there can be no sense of urgency in drafting a 2nd round player. You simply do not draft a player that late with the mindset that this guy is going to carry your team if the current guy fails at it. That is the only point I've tried to make all along.

If we'd gone and made a move and gotten a proven, reliable point guard, then I would agree. That would show a sense of urgency, a hedging of the bets if you will. Just in case JT can't give enough of the PG role to keep this team moving. But drafting a guy last in the first round in no way shows such a desperation.

[KZ3]

"DD turns out to be a better PG than JT? You can say all you want about JT this and JT that. Economically, Chemistry-wise, and commonsense says that if DD plays the PG position better than JT does, then JT will be used in a trade to help get rid of Hendu's salary."

Well obviously if there is a better option for a cheaper cost, that would be the smart decision. However, you can say this about any player on any team. If Hanno turned out to be a better PF than Shareef, then "economically, chemistry-wise..." etc etc, and we would trade Shareef to get rid of someone's salary. But the fact of the matter is that Shareef is a proven all star forward, while Hanno is a second round pick that didn't pan out. Dickau has not proven himself at the NBA level yet, and this is the reason why so many people disagree with you. For all you or anybody else knows, Dickau could be a Bryce Drew or Matt Maloney instead of a Stockton or Nash. I am sure that Babcock and Kruger are aware of this as well. To say that those who back up JT and his progress at PG over the past couple of years are "in denial" is a little far fetched. Many of us (including again, Babcock and Kruger) saw the hawks begin to turn it around at the end of last season with JT at PG. I find it hard to believe that they won't give JT at least a year to showcase his increasing abilities. A couple of years down the road, if Dickau has shown that the team is better when he is running the point, that is when talk of JT being traded will be considered seriously by me and many others.

[chickenstanly]

I'm going to take Diesel's side on this one. Too many people

piled up on one side of the boat on this issue -- for them to be right.

Remember the Kwame Brown Titanic we had here only last year ?

[Diesel]

Let me address it like this.

If JT is the PG of the future, why didn't we just sign Vaughn up for the Longterm? I mean, Vaughn was a KNOWN commodity. Everybody talks about how well JT played PG in the last 2 months of the season. OK. Wasn't Vaughn doing a good Job as his BU?

Herein lies the truth. Vaughn wasn't picked to be JT's BU for the Longrun because we really don't know if JT is the PG of the future. Babs knew that Theo was coming back. Babs probably had an idea that he could get Big Dog (remember Babs forecasts of making a trade that will change the whole complexion of the team before the draft?) . With that in mind... Why not commit to JT being the PG of the future and make Vaughn the Backup of the future?

Instead Babs goes out and gets a PG who was above JT's level when he was drafted. Looking at the move from an economy standpt, it makes sense to do that if you plan on trading JT. Get a guy who can replace JT and at the same time, Use JT to get rid of Salary (Hendu) an possible tighten up the SG position.

I wouldn't put it past Babcock to trade JT/Hendu/CC for Spreewell. He has always loved Spree. NY needs a PG? NY has always liked Hendu. Just a look into the mind of Babcock.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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I'm not all pro-JT or anti-DD. I'm 'anti-agree with everything diesel says'.

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You don't know how satisfying that is to me. Just like Old Times, I can make you be for or against anything I want you to be.

:lol

DON'T you know I live for that measure of control?

So when you say something like that.... Once again you admit that you really don't have an opinion of your own (or atleast not one based on intelligent thinking) but your opinion depends on What Diesel has to say on the matter! I think you need to Call Walter and you guys can start up the anti-diesel Fan club again!

[JTFan31]

is what the Hawks did last year when they signed E-mail and JV as the starting PG's.....thats urgency, they went and tried to get the best PG's out there that were available. They went into the season with the mindset of JT being the starting SG. Then E-mail gets hurt, they try the mini-me backcourt, totally doesnt work out.......so they just go ahead and try JT at the point, and whalaaaa......magic happens........JT flourishes as the Hawks starting PG in the last 50 games of the season. So they went into the draft liking Dixon and Dickau as BU's PG's. Dixon gets chosen and they try to pickup Dickay from the 18th pick forward. If Babs was so urgent on PG again, especially after he made guarantee's of making the playoffs he would of just resigned JV or went after a bigger PG in the league, a proven PG. But he knew and so does Lon that JT is the man now at that position and they pickup a steal in Dickau, not with superstar talent but can turn out to be a darn good backup. So look at the real picture Diesel and not just what you assume.

_______________________________________________

I wouldn't put it past Babcock to trade JT/Hendu/CC for Spreewell. He has always loved Spree. NY needs a PG? NY has always liked Hendu. Just a look into the mind of Babcock.

_________________________________________________

What kind of silly deal is this? So little that you know Diesel do you read any articles, it even in the Hawksquawk archives that Babs will NEVER want Spreewell in his team. He stated that.

[Diesel]

First off, Off topic even, Dixon is NOT a PG.

OK.

Now, about the urgency. You said that over the last 50 games JT flourished as a PG. Fine. Then why not sign Vaughn to a long term deal. Obvious JT flourished and Vaughn was his Back up right. instead, we use a first round pick... to get an unknown quantity in Dickau? Why?

Dickau is a guy who if he flourishes at the PG position might make the training of JT as a PG pointless. Finally this yr, JT just learn how to dribble the ball up the court without dribbling into a double team. It took 3 yrs for him to learn to do that. There had to be some disappointment in JT's PG abilities. I mean, I have been disappointed to see guys like Maloney, Knight, Vaughn, and Coles all do much much better at PG than JT. It's not something that comes naturally to him because he's not a natural PG. Training JT to be a PG is just like calling Steve Smith the Next Magic (many yrs ago). Just because he has the size doesn't mean that he has the ability.

But this yr, we will see. AND I promise you that if we notice that the offense runs better with DD coming off the bench than it does with JT... Regaurdless of how much JT can score, he might get pitched to get rid of Hendu.

[Teeareess]

I think Desiel's reading too much into this one. They traded a future pick, to get the last pick in the first round to pick DD. That doesn't sound like urgency to me. If they were so urgent, to replace JT at point, why did Babcock fail to even make a contract offer to Vaughn? Isn't he closer to being the true point guard that Babs is supposedly looking for? Why no attempts to bring in any Vet point guards in free agency? They must've been pretty comfortable about the thought of JT at point to make no moves before the draft.

[Guest]

mean, I have been disappointed to see guys like Maloney,

Knight, Vaughn, and Coles all do much much better at PG

than JT. "

Maloney?Coles?Will you get a freakin life you moron!How many

APG did these guys get...were are they playing today you

idiot.Did those guys even average about 4APG at PG?I think

not.

Maloney is not even a PG either.He is a freakin SG and a backup

SG at that.Go look at our win/loss record with him starting at PG.

Go look at our win/loss record with Bimbo"scrub"Coles at PG.

Just like with Shareef arguement.You need to start watching

ball games.

[Guest]

Your arguement about Dickau is one thing,but Coles or MM couldn't

carry JT's jockstrap in any shape or form on the basketball court.

Coles will probably not even play on a PG less Cleveland team and

Maloney can't get a job in the league.

Obviousally JT isn't a true PG,but Coles isn't a NBA caliber player in

the first place and Maloney the only he done at PG was not turn the

ball over and Terry is already better in that area.He sure isn't like our

4TPG PF that has no handles.

Dan Dickau is Brevin Knight's twin brother.He will make some good passes,

but he is a backup.His limits exceed his skill level.

And once again,if Jt can't play PG there is no way in hell anyone is going

to give us anything in a JT/Hendu package.Are you really that dumb to

believe otherwise?Hendu is a third string player(That gets 8 million a year)

and if JT is a undersized SG he has no more value than Troy Hudson because

if he can't play PG that is exactually who he is.