Diesel Reveals the truth about Dickau.

[Diesel]

Let see:

Vaughn - 6.6 ppg, 4.3 apg, 1.37 topg in 22.6 mpg as a Hawk.

Coles - 8.1 ppg, 3.7 apg, 1.29 topg in 24.1 mpg as a Hawk.

Knight- 6.9 ppg, 6.1 apg, 1.79 topg in 29.0 mpg as a Hawk.

Terry - 19.3 ppg, 5.7 apg, 2.32 topg in 38 mpg last season.

Terry's numbers are good for a player, but as a PG, give any of these guys as much time (prorate if you wish) their numbers in the same system that it has taken Terry 3 yrs to learn and they would do a PGing job tha tputs Terry to shame. Especially knight. Terry's always going to have better scoring numbers, but right now, we don't need Terry to be Sam Cassell. We need him to be more like Jason Kidd/Gary Payton. A guy who can get his teammates the ball in position to score. Both Big Dog and SAR should score over 23 ppg this season.

[BlackHawkDown]

Diesel I hate to go against you but Glover and Cal Bowdler where higher picks than DD and we aren't basing our future on thay so why DD. I say if JT doesn't perform then we trade him for a top point. Not let some lame like DD take over he isn't impressing me so far. I am sure it is because I am racist...saved Walter and Traceman the trouble. But this is flat ridiculous what do you want Jason Kidd. Its not going to happen. If we were banking on someone other than JT we could have swiped him for Andre Miller straight up. If DD becomes the starting point I am officially a Clippers fan.

[Guest]

Terry - 19.3 ppg, 5.7 apg, 2.32 topg in 38 mpg last season. "

What was his numbers WHEN HE PLAYED PG?

"Vaughn - 6.6 ppg, 4.3 apg, 1.37 topg in 22.6 mpg as a Hawk."

I'm not questioning Vaughn here.I said Matt Malonely and Bimbo

Coles.

3.7APG is nothing to write home about.ESP considering Coles

teammates were JJ/Rider/Mutombo/Henderson and JT's teammates

were DJ/Ira/Nazr.Bimbo didn't have to score or even worry about

it because Deke/JJ/Rider/Hendu were all double figure scorers.

Take out Jt and insert Coles and I PROMISE you we don't go 19-16

in that spand.I'd bet 100 smackers on it.

Especially knight."

Knight put his own self to shame.How many times did guys leave him

open for shots and him fail?He is not a starting PG on a team with a

winning record.Out of all the PG's in the league Knight would be the

first one I would leave wide open.

"Both Big Dog and SAR should score over 23 ppg this season. "

We aren't going to win games with SAR taking shots in the 4th

period or Big Dog either for that matter.Neither hustle on defense,

Big Dog is just a jump shooter.

They might PAD those stats on a losing team.But with those two

guys as the options in the 4th period your butt is fried.They don't

win ball games and if they had the right desire they would be there

when needed.

All Big Dog cares about is shooting and he'd rather lose and score

than win and not score.Notice the first thing he talked about in his

press conference was"My scoring,my shooting...My scoring"it's a

example and it is alot of the reason alot of people question our

chemistry.

[beav]

If DD becomes the point you can pull for the blazers! you love jeff mcinnis and he should compensate for some of our sissy-ballers!

[JTFan31]

If you are expecting JT to be more like Kidd and Payton, then you really have issues my brother. JT will be good, actually very good but no way in hell would he be like Kidd or Payton this season, although he will have some allstar considerations. But dont expect JT to play like J. Kidd or Payton because you will be very dissapointed.

[Diesel]

Actually that was a different Draft. That draft that produced Cal and Glover was TOP Heavy. ONly the top 10 or 12 will see a second contract with the same team. However, DD's draft seems to be more balanced. A guy taken late in the draft might be just as a guy taken early.

[Diesel]

You claim that these guys I have brought up are not starter quality. And I agree. However, these guys who are not starter quality put up Better PG numbers than JT? In fact, every yr, one comes in and LEARNS the same system that JT has had trouble learning for 3 yrs. What does that really tell you about JT and his desire to be a PG? I think it was something that he really didn't care to do.

[Diesel]

Why not expect JT to be more like Payton and less like Cassell??

Cassell is a good player but I don't think we want JT adopting the shoot first mentality that Cassell has. It would ruin this teams chances.

Payton on the other hand is the mold for JT. A PG who can score but during their championship yrs, he was able to step back and let Rain Man be the spotlight. JT needs to do the same. He has a PF more talented than Kemp and a SF that is just as much a gunner as Shrempf. There's no reason why JT cannot transform his game this yr the same way that Payton transformed his game in his 4th yr.

Iin his for yr, Payton averages were:

16.5 ppg, 6.0 apg, 3.3 rpg, 2.5 spg, with 2.11 topg in 35 mpg.

Why can't JT acheive that?

If he mustered up those kind of Numbers we would win most of the time.

[Guest]

here is one thing you continue to fail to pay attention too...

When Vaughn is in the game he is passing the ball at TWO

20PPG players.When Terry is at PG he passing the ball to

one scorer and three backups.Do you not see any difference?

Do you even understand the difference?

"Iin his for yr, Payton averages were:

16.5 ppg, 6.0 apg, 3.3 rpg, 2.5 spg, with 2.11 topg in 35 mpg.

Why can't JT acheive that?

If he mustered up those kind of Numbers we would win most of the time."

What the hell do you think he was doing at PG you moron.He was

bettering those numbers with only one other damn option on the

team.Dermarr/Nazr/Ira are not freakin options.These guys are not

options and that means JT has to shoot.

You threw in his numbers at 5.7APG however you are basing his stats

in which he didn't play the PG position.It's dumb and it's a lousy attempt

to make your arguement look good...when to be honest your arguement

flat out sucks.

"A PG who can score but during their championship yrs, he was able to

step back and let Rain Man be the spotlight."

Those years the Sonics had Ricky Pierce/Eddie Johnson/Hersey Hawkins/

Detlef/Sam Perkins/Dana Barros and other scorers throughtout those

years.We had JT/Shareef and a roster full of backups.Do you see any

Ricky Pierce to go along with our PF?I see Dermarr Johnson and Ira

Newble and that isn't the same thing.

Your arguement sucks

[Guest]

How can you be a pure PG and win with scrubs like DJ/Newble/Mohammad

starting?You can throw Vaughn in there and while his assist total might

increase some we will still lose just like the Boston Celtic game at the end

of the season.Vaughns stats looked decent enough,but guess what,we

never really had the upperhand in that game and Reef struggled really

badly without JT despite having your Pure PG on the floor.Talented

players win basketball games.

[Guest]

Give JT some other damn talent on the team and he might pass

more and shoot less.But when your 3/4/5 options are Dermarr/

Nazr/Newble you don't have much a damn choice but shoot.

JT actually has a talented two additions to the team and lets

see what he can do.Dermarr should be on the bench aswell

because he wouldn't start for any other team either.

And just think about it...in period 4 JT has nobody to pass the

ball to.

http://www.nba.com/games/20020417/ATLBOS/boxscore.html

Lookie here!Vaughn had 13 assist...but who did me actually make

look better?

Dj 2-13

Nazr 1-7

Kukoc 2-6

Newble was the only guy that shot 50%

It's what I am telling you....talented players win games and not

bloated stats.Guys like Vaughn will pickup bloated assist stats.

That's what they are when you lose and get a high number but really

made nobody better.That is Dan Dickau's future if he is a starter here.

Maybe Andre Miller fits in this catagory aswell?You can get assist if that

is what you are looking to do....but if you don't improve your teammates

are you any better than a shoot first PG?

[Diesel]

OK,

I'm sick of you calling names ***wipe. If you disagree with me, Fine but why do you have to revert to calling names? Is that the only thing your intelligence will allow you to do? Are you somehow fustrated that the world has dealt you a bad hand or something? This board is a matter of opinion, however, you are in no position to belittle anyone. At least not until you move out of your parents house and start taking care of your own self!

That stated...

JT has not put up those kind of numbers for a whole yr. That's what this yr is to determine dumbass. MY hope is that JT can put up at least 6 apg, 16 pts with minimum turnovers... However, if he doesn't then you and your dumbass friends are going to have to expect that Babcock will do what is best for THE TEAM. That's my point. Yet you come here every day and try to discredit the best player we have (SAR) and then try to make JT into something that he is NOT yet. Come to reality. Stop relying on your playstation to give you the truth about this game.

[Diesel]

When Lewis went down this yr, how many 20 ppg players did GP have? None.

The point is that Good PGs don't complain about what they have around them. I mentioned GP. He played very well carried his team to playoffs.

Good PGs make their teammates BETTER

a couple of yrs ago, Armstrong for Orlando had NOBODY around him. This was before Tmac and Miller. All he had was Himself, Wallace, and a team full of ham and eggers. However, a good PG makes those around him better.

Now, today you give JT excuses when he has SAR, Nazr, and Toni to pass to. Not to mention Glover and Dj. With all the potential, why aren't these guys better?

[Guest]

I'm alittle frustrated because everytime I counter your arguements

with something you side swipe it.

"Are you somehow fustrated that the world has dealt you a bad hand

or something?"

No.This isn't last year my friend.You aren't picking on the guy going

through tuff problems.This is strictly basketball and nothing more at

all.

"I'm sick of you calling names ***wipe."

Quit saying moronic things and I wouldn't call you names because

I don't want to do it because I'm sure you are good person face to

face.However,it's quite clear that last season we had jack crap for

scorers.We had TWO guys average double figures.Two players with

above average talent.It's alot easier for Vaughn to come in and pass

the ball at two good players when JT is playing the position and he is

passing the ball to Shareef and three backups.

"JT has not put up those kind of numbers for a whole yr. That's

what this yr is to determine dumbass. MY hope is that JT can

put up at least 6 apg, 16 pts with minimum turnovers..."

Haven't I been saying this???It's fine that you bring up a few ideas

to trade JT but you have made it some sort of obsession to trade

him before giving him those few months to see what he can do with

a team that actually has talent on it.

Of course he can't average 20PPG AS A 3RD OPTION and win games.

He has to take a backseat or else we need to find another starting

PG in a trade.

"Yet you come here every day and try to discredit the best player we

have(SAR) and then try to make JT into something that he is NOT yet."

When have I tried to make JT a pure PG?I said he is a talented player

that puts numbers at the PG spot and we won with him there.The

better players win the games.This is why despite the difference in overall

talent level the Spurs will beat the Clippers 4 out of 5 games.TD is the

best player on the floor.This is why the Lakers will beat the Kings....The

Kings might have been overall talent,but Shaq/Kobe is better than Webber

/Bibby when it gets down to it.

Dickau or Vaughn might be better pure PG's.But we aren't going 19-16

with them at PG because they simply aren't as talented as JT.They

might get more APG than JT,but we aren't going to win games just

like the Boston game.Vaughn had 13 assist but we still shot 34%

and lost the game cause Vaughn only had one scorer to pass too...

Vaughn was put into Terry's situation at PG and while he had more

assist than JT usally gets, the team still suffered and shot 34%

from the floor.

[Guest]

Now, today you give JT excuses when he has SAR, Nazr, and

Toni to pass to. Not to mention Glover and Dj. With all the

potential, why aren't these guys better?"

Toni-Declining old man that doesn't have the same skills anymore.

The guy stunk with Philly...Why didn't Snow make him better??Overall...

he is a PG isn't he?

Dion-He was injuried with JT at PG just in case you forgot.

Dermarr?He doesn't do anything but stand at the 3pt line.How

do you make those players better?Dermarr couldn't even shoot

well at 39% Jt could make him better if he actually go within

15 feet of the basket sometimes instead of hiding in the

corners.

Nazr-I don't know what happend to this guy.He lost his hustle

after being given the contract.Factor in that after we traded

for him he averaged 13PPG 9RPG and shot close to 49% and

worked hard and got alot of junk baskets.This year his lazy

butt done nothing but shoot jumpshots and he is slower than

even Todd McColluagh.

How much better can you make backups?How about actual

talent?Gary Payton had a boatload of talent on his team.Alot

more than this team had at year.

[Guest]

Look I shouldn't have called you names.But my point must not be

getting through or else you aren't paying any attention.

But when Vaughn started at PG he saw what JT usally saw:DJ/Newble/

SAR/Nazr has teammates and while he had 13 assist we still had

problems.

Remember JT had double doubles in 4 out of his last 5 games also.

It's about winning and the Vaughns/Knights aren't going to be guys

that win you ball games.And until Dickau does this IN THE PROS he

can't boot JT out.It's not just about throwing up stats in losing

efforts and calling him a PG.

Had we had a losing record with JT at PG I could see your point

and everything you are saying would be fair.At SG Jt was having

bloated stats.He is not a good Shooting Guard.And if you are

correct and we are losing with JT at PG at the allstar break

I will come on here and admit I am wrong.But until this happens

I stick by my guns.

[dimes4life]

u r an idiot! JT played pg the last 24 games of the season! look it up, and he averaged 7.1 dimes per game in 24 games. the 7 dimes is good but he did not start at pg 50-60 games, 24!!!!!!!! And I am not even a Hawks fan and i know this!

[jaywalker72]

They combined for 36 starts last year....how many does that leave for Jason at the point?

The answer.....not 24, in fact it's 46.

[Guest]

Actually it was 6.9APG.You looked it up...you didn't know anything

and you were still wrong.Who's the idiot again?Shoot yourself in

the foot why don't you=)

You were unable to do anything to change my mind.You look at

the lack of talent level we had at the end of last year and he

was still pushing 7 dimes while Cassell/Stoudamire and others

had alot more talent and still couldn't reach the total.

Another thoughtless kid.Go watch Kings games.Maybe you actually

know something about them.

You can't argue with the winning record on a team that lacked talent

last year.Anything more is jibberish.Go back to your board kid before

I have to school you aswell.

[JTFan31]

Great point ARR. I couldnt have said it better nor I probably would of ever thought of that. The question that we should ask Diesel is this, Do you rather have a JT avg 18ppg, 7.0 apg, 2.0 spg & 3.5 rpg or Do you rather have a Dan Dickau (which I'm speculating that these will be his avgs as a starter) 12.5 ppg, 7.0 apg, 3.0 rpg & 1.2 spg.....and I still think these numbers will be like his best seasons in the league. Diesel you say Dickau is a "natural PG" and IMO and others opinion he really is a shoot first PG. But one thing for sure is that JT is a "natural leader" and Dickau isn't.