Diesel's top 10 shooting Gaurds.

[Diesel]

1. Tracy McGrady. Yep. He's the man. He's carried his team much better than Kobe and without the Shaqman behind him. Plus defensively TMac is just too Awesome.

2. Allen Iverson. Heart. That's it in a word. Tremendous heart. We make excuses for our players being the only scorers on the team, AI has nobody else putting up near 20 but he always manages to get Philly in.

3. Kobe. I don't know if he deserves to be this high because what is Kobe without Shaq? Nobody knows and we'd be fools to say we do. He's young and hungry though.

4. Vince Carter. Yikes. Carter's stock has gone down... But I'd still take him. Every yr he adds something new to his game. At one time thought to be just a dunker, he added 3 pt shooter to the resume'. Gotta like that.

5. Jerry Crackhouse. Give Boss Hog his due. He's good. He shoots a lot and scores a lot but this yr he showed diversity.

6. Micheal Finley. This is where the dieselputer says it gets tight. Finley is more skilled than his stats may say.

6. Ray Allen. Coming off of a Bad yr, Big baby Jesus is still a sharp shooter with GAME.

8. Eddie Jones. A mesh of offense and defense. He plays hard nose defense that has numbered him amoung the best.

9. Cutino Mobley. Does anyone doubt the contribution this guy makes? I don't know about Yao, but with Francis, Mobley, and Griff Houston has everything they need.

10. Richard Halmilton. Yep. Check him out. When Jordan is there or Not, Rip is Ripping teams a new one.

10. Alan Houston. Can you say Way Overpaid!! He's still good though.

[Guest]

Where is Paul Pierce?

[beav]

9. Cutino Mobley. Does anyone doubt the contribution this guy makes? I don't know about Yao, but with Francis, Mobley, and Griff Houston has everything they need.

10. Richard Halmilton. Yep. Check him out. When Jordan is there or Not, Rip is Ripping teams a new one.

10. Alan Houston. Can you say Way Overpaid!! He's still good though.

No real arguments until I come here... in fact I'll give you houston, but forget cuttino mobley and hamilton

I'd still take reggie miller over either of those 2, and since jalen rose is playing most of his minutes at SG he is a no-brainer over them too... [censored] since those too are really just scorers I'd take bonzi over them too and consider (merely consider) brent barry...

yes carter has indeed fallen, but I would have probably downgraded him more given the way the raptors played without him at the end of last year...

[Diesel]

Pierce is on my SF list.

I don't consider him a 2.

[Diesel]

Rose is on my SF list too.

However, I can almost agree with you on Reggie BUT... Don't sell either Mobley or Halmilton short. They are both 20 ppg players who carry or help carry their teams.

[Guest]

1)Kobe Bryant-Read the stats.Some people say he doesn't carry

the team on his own like Tmac does his.But there is one big

difference and that is that Kobe plays in the west and Tmac

plays in the east.The Magic would win 30 games in the west

at best.Scores/rebounds/CAN play defense/good passing

ability and can create his own shot and get to the basket.His

3pt game needs some work.

2)Tmac-See Kobe....But Tmac has questionable leadership(questioning

his teammates)but he does what he does in the east while

Kobe does it in the west.

3)Paul Pierce-Moves aren't pretty,but he is a better defender than

the two above and is a deadly 3pt shooter and he gets the

foul line and is the most clutch SG in the league...Also the

3rd leading scorer in the league.Questionable shot selection,

could pass alittle more.

4)Allen Iverson-Scoring is nice,gets alot of steals and can carry

a below average talented team.However,leadership is questionable

and he always puts his team at a dissadvange by making the

PG guard the SG's.The best one on one SG in the league.

5)Vince Carter-Has the potential to leapfrog to first at any given

time.But he turned into a sissy baller this year and started shooting

fadaway shots instead of attacking the basket.Good 3pt shooter,

scorer.Can play better defense and needs to start attacking the

basket again.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6)Ray Allen-Good scorer,good shooter,decent rebounder,decent

passing decent in the clutch most of he time.Needs defense and

could be alittle better well rounded.

7)Jerry Stackhouse-Good passer(5apg)good scorer and he had improved

leadership.Good all round SG.

8)Michael Finley-EXPLOSIVE scorer,good defender,can shoot the 3...He

can pass and is a good rebounder for his position and he can take over

a game and drop 40 points on anyone.Questionable shot selection at

times and is prone to going really cold at anytime and shoots to much

at times instead of using his good passing ability.

9)Eddie Jones-Decent scorer,great defense,good at the foul line and

can shoot the 3.Questionable leadership,dissappears alittle to often

and almost never takes over a game.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10)Reggie Miller-DEADLY shooter,good scorer,clutch,good leadership.Needs

some rebounding and defense and I doubt he will go those things

at his age.

11)Cuttino Mobley-Good scorer,ok passer,good 3pt shooter...but needs

defense and his questionable shot selection.

12)Brent Barry-DEADLY shooter/good passer/decent scorer/decent

defender...solid but just not top notch at anything other than

shooting.

13)Rip Hamilton-Good scorer,decent shooter.Needs rebounding,

defense and some passing.Can have big scoring games and is

fairly consisant.

14)Allan Houston-Good shooter,decent scorer,average defender..No

postup game,no rebounding,no passing,dissappears,questionable

desire.

[Traceman]

this year. Last year, he started about half the games at SG and about half at SF. This year, I look for Battie to start at Center, Baker to start at PF, Walker to start at SF and Pierce to start at SG. Who knows who will start at PG. At any rate, he's as much a SG as T Mac is. Mike Miller actually started at SG most of the time for the Magic.

[Diesel]

Kobe is really unproven.

He's good, but I don't think he's the best SG in the game if he has no Shaq. Go back to the Philly Finals. Kobe shut down. On defense, Iverson used and abused Kobe. Had it not been for Shaq.... This yr, Bibby used and abused Kobe. Had it not been for HORRY and Shaq...

That said. I have never said the same thing about Tmac and Iverson. Both of those guys produce regaurdless of who's playing with them or who's gaurding them. Maybe Kobe shouldn't have asked to be traded because until he gets from under the umberalla that Shaq provides, There will always be questions about Kobe and his true worth.

[chillzatl]

You've never made your feelings of Kobe a secret. But you are part of a very small minority that question the obvious talent and skill the guy has. If you put him on a team that was BUILT around him and not Shaq, he could carry his team as well as any of the two guys you put above him. Philly would trade Iverson for Kobe ANY DAY. You are a fool if you don't think that. I would put Mcgrady and Kobe on the same level, but Iverson? yeah right.

[Diesel]

I didn't question his abilities at all. He was 3rd on my list. Ahead of some good SGs.

What I did question is weather he's better than TMAC or AI? The answer is NO. Those two guys face constant double teams NIGHT after NIGHT... When was the last time any team could afford to double Kobe? On top of that, Kobe has his spells where he does disappear. Most obvious the 76er series. When Deke played Shaq head up and Kobe was being gaurded by McKie, it was harder for him to score like he normally does.

Weather you want to admit or not, he does benefit from having the most DOMINANT player ever drawing double teams.

The other thing is that Defensively a lot is made about Kobe, however, what happens when AI, JT, or Bibby comes to town? Kobe gets stomach poisoning or whatever it takes to keep him off the floor.

[chillzatl]

He gets double teamed constantly. Of course he benefits from having Shaq out there, that whole team does. But he gets double teamed constantly. You are making out seem like Kobe is just out there alone scoring basket and that's absurd. Watch the games, He gets double teamed constantly. Shaq benefits as much from having Kobe as Kobe does from having Shaq. We had this discussion last year during the season. After which I watched several lakers games with this in mind. One being against the spurs. Kobe was double teamed CONSTANTLY. yet he still put up near 30 points, leading his team to the win. We've got to see plenty of Kobe without shaq over the last few years and they are above .500 in those games. They wouldn't be dominant without Shaq. But they would make the playoffs and be one of the better teams in the league. Especially if the team was built around him.

And it's funny how Kobe will have a bad game or two and everyone focuses on that. But they fail to recognize the string of 30+ point games he had leading up to that or the games where he takes over in the 4th putting up 10-15 points, leading his team to the win.

Is he better than Mcgrady? no. Is he just as good? yes. Is he better than AI? YES, IMO. He's as good offensively, better defensively and isn't limited by size like Iverson is. Heart is a good quality but it will only make up for your physical limitations so much.

[capstone21]

Plus, I am not a Lakers fan or Kobe fan by any means but it is in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line that the ball is in Kobe's hands (not shaq's) and he is damn good at making that game winning play.

[Guest]

Wally played the 2 all year (for the first time)

...as nice a player B. Barry is, and as overpayed as Houston is...Houston's still better....

[Guest]

Wally is pretty close to a Houston clone.I totally forgot about

him but I will say he is a SF because he really is.

Why didn't Shaq get the titles with Penny Hardaway?He hasn't

won anything without Kobe either.

There is one difference between Tmac/Ivy and Kobe.The first

two play in the east.If Philly played in the west they wouldn't

win anything because they are simply not that great of a

team.The only thing they have to show was winning the weak

east and one FLUKE overtime game 1.Hell we won 1 game againest

the Bulls in the playoffs...but we were nowhere near their level.

[Diesel]

In the fourth the play is Horry or Fox's to make. Also, the king of the open Look gets a few shots too. However Compared to Tmac, how much does Kobe do? TMAC Carries his team ALL 4Qtrs. Not just the stretch. So does AI. That's the main difference. Also, Kobe rarely gets doubled. I got NBC, I've seen him open on many occassions.

[Hawksfreak]

Gotta put them in there!

[capstone21]

Dude there is no way DJ or DG are even remotely close to being in the top 10. They are not even in the top 20 shooting guards in the league. Someday they may become good players but right now they are just potential.

[Hawksfreak]

Gotta love your Hawks man! Lets go now almost time for the season!

[kudzu23]

Mike, if you're not gonna use common sense when making a comment on a thread, DONT BOTHER. People are trying to hold a conversation on ideas which are based on analytical viewpoints. Do not interrupt with the nonsense notion that DJ and DG are in the top 10, unless you have some serious wind to back it up. Letting bias so blatantly influence your judgement of players makes it look like you know nothing. The thread was the "TOP" sg's not the "FAVORITE". We know you're trying to pep everyone. We know you love the Hawks. Its not relevant here and is mere graphitti to the thread.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

[chickenstanly]

You continue to attempt to make this case against Kobe

because he plays with Shaq. I don't buy it. Sometimes

playing when you are 'the man' can make a player look

better that they actually are. Ever think of that ?

Was Magic not deserving of his status because he had

Kareem, Worthy, Wilkes, etc ?

Havlacek, Cousey not good because they played with

Russell.

Did Bird only appear good only because of his supporting cast ?

Did Shaq ever win without Kobe ? Absolutely not ! How

are you so sure the dog is actually wagging the tail in

this case ?

One thing is for sure, whether it's the NBA or on a playground -- it's about winning and until T-Mac

wins something -- he cannot be favorably compared

to Kobe.

There have been many great individual players. Gervin,

Archibald, Theus, Barkley, etc who could not find a

way to win. They are not in the same class as those

who do. Cannot be. It takes more than individual talent

to win. It takes the ability to be great while playing

team ball. The ability to fit in and be a piece of a

puzzle. Kobe hs done this and until T-Mac or any of

the other wannabe's find a way to knock him out, he

remains solidified in that position.