Marvin Williams Not A Bust!!! (IMO)

[mrhonline]

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Don't pick a guy #2 over all and then lean on his age as being a reason for not knowing if he's a bust or not. If you pick a guy #2 overall, then damnit you ought to be 100% sure that this guy is a ringer!

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How many times do we have to go over this? Clearly, you don't agree with the idea of drafting based on potential.

But many of us do.

So, let's leave it at that until at least Christmas time. There's no point in claiming he's a bust before he's even played a game.

Diesel, I have complete confidence that you can find another hot button issue to get people riled up about. This well, however, is completely dry.

[JTFan31]

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Now.. Since you watched over 15 games with Marvin tell me this.. Who looked better on the court under pressure.. Marvin or Jawad?

Notice.. I'm not saying who gave the best slam dunk preview.. But who looked more comfortable on the floor when it was a big game?

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OK so now you are comparing a 22 year old senior with an 18 year old freshman, which averaged just 2 ppg less than Jawad and was the 5th option while Jawad was the 3rd option the team and a starter. Diesel I am looking at production dude, and to me Marvin produced being a 5th option , coming off the bench and being just a freshman 11 ppg and 6.6 rpg is production for any freshman as a bench player, heck even as a starter.

Marvin showed the heart of a lion while in the games, plus add that to kid's potential.....if I said it once, I will say it again......he has allstar written all over him.

[Diesel]

Had we picked Deron, we would have been drafting based on Potential as well.. We would have had a better idea of what we were getting though.

Let's get all of the catch phrases out of the way and get to the nitty gritty of it all.

When we drafted Marvin, we drafted mostly based on hype. Word out of the workouts (even from Marvin's own mouth ) is that Marvin sucked in Milwaukee. Marvin admitted to not being in shape.

Click

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Williams seemed tired at times during the 45-minute workout and stopped twice to be stretched by Bucks strength and conditioning coach Tim Wilson. At one point, after Williams shot a free throw, Bucks assistant Bob Ociepka asked him, "Are you all right?" Williams nodded in the affirmative.

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The point is what's our basis for drafting him #2?

Strong Workouts? NO.

Strong NCAA tourney? NO?

Strong NCAA Season? NO.

Hype? Certainly...

[mrhonline]

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When we drafted Marvin, we drafted mostly based on hype.

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I totally agree with this statement. The Hawks didn't even bring Marvin Williams in for a workout, watch any of his games, or interview him.

They just read Chad Ford and decided to draft Marvin.

[Lascar78]

And he certainly didn't have an outstanding workout for us either.

[Diesel]

When you only have 2 workouts and you look like a drunk Monkey in one of them... At the end of the day does it matter what happened in the other??

Especially considering your NCAAs were pitiful and your season was not so stellar..

[drzachary]

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When you only have 2 workouts and you look like a drunk Monkey in one of them... At the end of the day does it matter what happened in the other??

Especially considering your NCAAs were pitiful and your season was not so stellar..

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"Pitiful?"

You want pitiful, you look at Deron's stats against Farleigh-Dickinson. He got what, 7, 8 points? That's just pathetic. I sure am glad we didn't draft such a loser! He can't even dominate against weak opposition like FDU.

[Diesel]

So your answer to Marvin's pitiful games is to attack Deron..

How typical...

The point is that you can look to Deron's defense against other PGs like Paul, Salim, Felton and see what kind of player he is..

What do we do for Marvin.. Why don't you quote me his measurements or maybe his stats against Iowa State or Hampton?? But don't show me Marvin in a Big game?

[drzachary]

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So your answer to Marvin's pitiful games is to attack Deron..

How typical..

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It's called sarcasm. Look it up!

Hell, I wanted Deron over Marvin too. However, I'm not going to use Marvin's two sub-par games of the NCAAs (one of which he did as well as Jawad, aka the Title Game, aka the Sean May Game) to paint him with the "pitiful" brush.

The key phrase to remember, Big D, is "sample size." I'm of the opinion that even a full college season isn't a good statistical indicator of how a player will do in the NBA, much less 2 games in the NCAAs!

Your turn to change the topic...

[Hawkzzz21]

Him not starting at NC doesn't mean nothing. He didn't start mainly because of a respect thing. He was a freshmen with guys on the roster that were older. He was on the floor late in games for NC. It's very much like the Corey Magette at Duke thing. Magette was good enough to start, but since he was a freshmen, the starting positions was given to upper classmen. NC and Duke just gave respect to some of the older guys, knowing that Magette and Williams time was comming.

BTW.......Deron Williams looked bad in the summer games. I don't think he's a bust, but considering he had 3 years of college expereince, it is dissapointing to see him start out that way.

If I had to go on suummer league action. I would want Chris Paul on the team, but that isn't a knock on Marv, it's more of a pat on the back for Paul. He looked really good in a couple of the games.

[Diesel]

[drzachary]

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Diesel, male human ThreadNecromancer14: CR 14; Size M (5 ft., 7 in. tall); HD 14d4+14; hp 53; Init +2 (+2 Dex); Spd 30 ft.; AC 12 (+2 Dex); Attack +7/+2 melee, or +9/+4 ranged; SV Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +10; AL CN; Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 12.

Languages Spoken: Aquan, Common, Elven, Marvin-Bashing.

Skills and feats: Craft (Threads) +10, Craft (Woodworking) +19, Decipher Script +20, Hide +2, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +17, Knowledge (Local) +15, Knowledge (Hawks History) +17, Knowledge (The Planes) +20, Listen +1, Move Silently +2, Spellcraft +20, Spot +1; Extend Spell, Greater Spell Focus (necromancy), Heighten Spell, Improved Unarmed Strike, Investigator, Quicken Spell, [scribe Scroll], Silent Spell, Spell Focus (necromancy).

[Hoosier]

One thing is for sure, the Hawks cannot win without JJ, right now. But beyond that, playing with or without various plyers seems to make little difference. Except for when Marvin is suited up, his prescence does seem to make a difference.

Now do not get me wrong, I don't want to trade him, and really believe he will become a player. But he has been a real drag on this team, and most of his higher scoring games have come in garbage time.

I do have an opinion why. Woodson's offense is an NBA version of Streetball. You run around in circles until you confuse the defense, then when you get confused.....just stop. Some players can thrive in this "system". Marvin on the other hand, is not one of them. He played for a fundamentally solid coach at NC, and was an integral part of a structured system. Most young players, as in most of the Hawks, need this. So again, why is Woodson a good fit for this team?

[Guest Walter]

and Woodson does not have an offensive strategy to speak of, I'm not sure that under any circumstance MW will become a player. I watched him at least 10 games at UNC and came away under-impressed. Unlike you I think MW's poor play has more to do with him than anyone else.

W

[Diesel]

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Marvin on the other hand, is not one of them. He played for a fundamentally solid coach at NC, and was an integral part of a structured system. Most young players, as in most of the Hawks, need this. So again, why is Woodson a good fit for this team?

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Did Marvin really play in that UNC System. I think Marvin existed at UNC. He's well known for what?? 2 tip ins. Marvin is not thriving under Woody and I would doubt under any coach because when you watch him, what you see is a big ball of uncoordination. The only reason that Marvin gets points is because he clumsily bumps and bowls into defenders. Last night was a perfect example. Marvin clumsily bumped into Howard on a play where I couldn't argue with Howard... He had perfect defensive position. That's all Marvin ever does when he puts the ball on the floor, drop his head and he junks his way into another player and goes to the line.

We can't live off of that.

Now, it's everybody else's fault that Marvin's offense is anemic.

If we had either Deron or Paul, our fortunes would be better.

[Hoosier]

I think you will see a dramatic difference in Marvin, when we get a coach with a real system in here. He is the type of player that needs that. It is the same problem with many of the young Hawks, including Sheldon, they are just lost out there. A veteran like Lue knows how to create his shot, but you cannot expect that from most 1st and 2nd year players.

The talent is already on this team, including Marvin and Sheldon. Put them in the right program and this much should become apparent.

[gsuteke]

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I think you will see a dramatic difference in Marvin, when we get a coach with a real system in here. He is the type of player that needs that. It is the same problem with many of the young Hawks, including Sheldon, they are just lost out there. A veteran like Lue knows how to create his shot, but you cannot expect that from most 1st and 2nd year players.

The talent is already on this team, including Marvin and Sheldon. Put them in the right program and this much should become apparent.

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We've been talking about that for weeks now. Pass the ball and watch Joe shoot. Pass the ball and watch Lue shoot. that's the offense.

Does anyone really think that a coaching change is not imminent?