Let's take a simple test here?

[Diesel]

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What I am getting at here is than none of this debate has anything to do with Marvin..He is a very talented kid..We may not see what he is for 2 or 3 years..There is no need to bash him because he fit BK's philosophy..If it turns out that BK is wrong, we need to bash him..We just need to lay off Marvin..He is not going to be any factor in us winning or losing in the near future..

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Here's is my question. What leads you to the conclusion that Marvin is "a very talented kid"? I agree... BK's plan is BK's plan and he's going to have to be held responsible for it. However, let's not just excuse Marvin as a Bystander totally... There are some things we ought to know now.

First, let me remind you...

#2 is the HIGHEST PICK IN FRANCHISE HISTORY

Don't you think that alone makes the pick worthy of some discussion and evaluation. Reguardless of what you believe, when you pick a guy #2, it should be a franchise changing pick. Will Marvin Change this franchise?

2ndly, Historically, you don't pick Sfs that high.

I'm praying that Marvin turns out. But, we must be real we wasted the 2nd pick on a Sf project.

[chickenstanly]

What about Julius Erving, Mark Aguirre, Adreian Dantley?

Small Forward was "the position of the stars" back in the 80's. Whether or not that translates into todays style of play is anyone's guess.

[Final_quest]

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I think when you go through with this plan that it will become evident that Marvin is NOT head and shoulders better than Paul or Deron. Therefore we would have made a franchise changing mistake.

As far as the original plan. I think originally the plan was that Bogut would fall to us. I would have been much happier with Bogut because at least he's a big. What exactly is Marvin?

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It sounds like you have more of a problem with Marvin's position than his talent.

The fact is there is no consistent pattern or way to figure out the lottery. It's just not an exact science. A star college player does not always translate into a star NBA player. If Marvin played for a lesser team he might have been the star of the team, we don't know.

The undertone of Diesel's comments is that he wanted a PG because that's what the Hawks needed, not because they were the BPA. To me PG is the position in college that makes a player look really great, but they just can't shine the same way in the NBA.

Diesel has called the two players that most scouts felt were the best prospects busts. He's compared Marvin to Tim Thomas, and Bogut to Mihm and Olowakandi.

[mrhonline]

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As far as talking about something else... Go ahead. When you bring up something that's interesting, let me know!

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This statement is infuriating. There was a period on this board a couple of weeks ago when you hadn't posted for a few days. And you know what? The board didn't suffer one bit from a lack of interesting discussion.

Diesel, we don't need you inventing arguments for us. Most of us are grown adults who want to talk about our favorite sports team. We don't need to be entertained by you.

IMO, something a lot more interesting would be something of substance from you rather than the tired, nickelodeon show you usually opt for.

(And spare me the lame personal attack. The difference between you and I is that I don't act like I'm the queen bee of Hawksquawk).

[CWSD]

As we all know, BK drafts the BPA. When you are building a team from ground zero, and primarily through the draft, you are just trying to find guys who can play at an NBA level, and hopefully who can play at the highest NBA star level.

BK simply evaluated Marvin as the available player most likely to play at the highest NBA level. Diesel, in your argument, you are relying on the assumption Paul will be as good of an NBA player as Marvin. BK disagrees, he thinks Marvin will be a better NBA player, and apparently so much better that it overrode any positional need. You and BK just evaluated the available talent differently.

Can evaluations be incorrect? Sure. You might be right that Paul was the best pick, but BK does the picking and he saw things differently.

As you mentioned, this was the highest pick in franchise history. When you pick that high you go for who you think will be THE franchise, i.e., who will be your superstar. BK thinks Marvin is that guy moreso than Paul, Deron or anybody else in the draft, except for maybe Bogut, who we won't know about.

Could we have gotten a superstar SF later in the draft? Maybe, but if you could tell who that was going to be you would draft them at any pick. If people knew any of the SF superstars mentioned would be as good as the ended up being, they would have been taken with the first pick.

BK is looking for the next Nique, Bird, Pippen, Dr J, etc. You need a superstar and BK thinks Marvin was the most likely draftee to be that kind of star.

[AHF]

The highest pick in NBA franchise history was a disaster. It just wasn't Marvin Williams.

The Hawks drafted David Thompson #1 overall only to see him never play for the team after he went to the ABA. Good player but he did have drug problems.

[TheDude]

Diesel, forget these indirect, beataroundthebush posts. What do you like or dislike about Marvin Williams?

[Diesel]

Julius Erving 12th pick of the 1st round.

Adreian Dantley - 6th pick overall

Mark Aguirre -1st overall.. Ahead of Isiah Thomas... I guess History is cyclical...

[Diesel]

It's really not about Marvin.

It's about us picking Marvin.

Marvin was the wrong pick for us.

You can try to spin what I say to make it sound like I hate Marvin but it's really about us picking him. I don't think he has the talent worthy OF the pick..

That's the bottom line.

I pray that I'm wrong, But I'm sure I'm right!

[Diesel]

Excuse ME..

The Highest Pick in the day of the combined NBA...

Yeah, we drafted Julius Erving, David Thompson, and Bill Russell.. However, if they never suit up does it mean a thing?

[Lascar78]

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This statement is infuriating. There was a period on this board a couple of weeks ago when you hadn't posted for a few days. And you know what? The board didn't suffer one bit from a lack of interesting discussion.

Diesel, we don't need you inventing arguments for us. Most of us are grown adults who want to talk about our favorite sports team. We don't need to be entertained by you.

IMO, something a lot more interesting would be something of substance from you rather than the tired, nickelodeon show you usually opt for.

(And spare me the lame personal attack. The difference between you and I is that I don't act like I'm the queen bee of Hawksquawk).

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well put

[Diesel]

Yeah... I'll be waiting...

In between ATLBallers change in Action Figures "birds of Prey" and Walt's Rant on a guy who will probably be sent to the DL for much of this year and the inevitable... "Who will be our 6th Man"...

I want to see something of substance.

I didn't know that there were sacred cows here on Hawksquawk. Just because I wanted to discuss the merits of picking Marvin with the highest PICk we have had in recent times... I didn't know that the GREAT Mr.H. Would so eagerly object?? I wonder why you all don't abstain from the conversation since we're all grown adults who want to talk about the newest Hawks action figure?

[drzachary]

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IMO, something a lot more interesting would be something of substance from you rather than the tired, nickelodeon show you usually opt for.

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The only person we're talking about who likes Nickelodeon shows is MARVIN WILLIAMS! He's nothing but a soft Rugrats and Spongebob fan who is too busy daydreaming about his animated pals to show up in Big Games™.

[drzachary]

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Just because I wanted to discuss the merits of picking Marvin with the highest PICk we have had in recent times

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You forgot to add "in dozens of threads, even threads created for discussing other topics."

[macdaddy]

Geez. If this ever was something of substance to talk about surely all the substance has gone down the drain. Is there anyone who has anything NEW to add to this on either side. I'll try.

So not many SF's were ever drafted 1 and 2. Does that prove something?

No one out of high school was more hyped than LeBron. Just because Marvin was hyped doesn't mean the hype is wrong.

How many 6 foot PGs who never took their teams anywhere in college were picked number 2?

[Sage11]

you bash????? It seems you think that you can run Marvin out of town before he even plays one minute in a real NBA game. Geeezzzzzzzzzzzz!

[drzachary]

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you bash????? It seems you think that you can run Marvin out of town before he even plays one minute in a real NBA game. Geeezzzzzzzzzzzz!

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Don't tell him that. He'll start a Marvin-was-a-bad-pick thread 1 minute after Marvin gets off the bench.

[GMyrberg]

Get back to us after the season or after Marvin has played substantial minutes, otherwise it's just spittin' in the wind. AND just because there aren't better threads, it doesn't mean this one has value.

[buildafire]

Dude....are you or aren't you a Hawks fan?

Marvin Williams is who we drafted. If you're a fan, get over it....

Either you're behind the team or not....

[Diesel]

So as a Hawks Fan, I shouldn't examine Hawks decisions just go with what the big wigs say?

That's not a true fan.

I mean, didn't we just go through this with Belk..

By your definition of fan, when Belk held up the trade, we should have just sat back and said..> Well he is the governor... He does have the power... Let's just go along with him?

No a true fan is there through winning and losing (which I have been) and a true fan is willing to not only accept the good that he team does but also criticize the bad that the team does too... but at the end of the day, still be a fan.

I will be here regaurdless of how hard Marvin falls.. But will you?

That's the true test of fanhood. NOT are you there at the beginning of the day.. BUT are you there at the end of the day.