anybody have a legit height on Marv?

[Admin]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2005/c...&id=2084149

The NBA measured 26 top NBA draft prospects along with 64 campers at the Chicago-pre draft camp this weekend.

Almost every prospect measured significantly lower (from ¾ to one inch shorter) than they have at team workouts and the Portsmouth Invitational.

The news came as a serious blow to some top prospects like Raymond Felton (5-foot-11 without shoes), Ike Diogu (6-6½ without shoes) and Wayne Simien (6-7¼ without shoes) who had been measured bigger by teams in recent weeks.

Below is a list of the heights, weights, wingspans and standing reaches of every player measured in Chicago. Pay special attention to the standing reaches. Most NBA teams regard this as a more important measurement than height because it more accurately describes a prospects playing length on the court. In that case players like Diogu (9-foot-1 standing reach) have the reach of most NBA centers.

Vitals for Camp Participants

Name Height Height

(w/ shoes) Weight Wingspan Reach

Acker, Alex 6' 3¾" 6' 4¾" 183.0 7' 0" 8' 6½"

Akindele, Deji 6' 9½" 6' 11" 236.4 7' 3" 9' 0½"

Aleksandrov, Nemanja 6' 10" 7' 0" 220.6 6' 11" 9' 2"

Al-Sayyad, Mustafa 6' 7½" 6' 9" 229.2 7' 4¾" 9' 2"

Anderson, Alan 6' 4½" 6' 6" 223.2 6' 9½" 8' 8"

Andriuskevicius, Martynas 7' 1¼" 7' 3" 227.8 6' 11¼" 9' 4½"

Banks, Sean 6' 5¾" 6' 7" 206.4 7' 1" 9' 0"

Basden, Eddie 6' 4¼" 6' 5½" 210.0 6' 10¼" 8' 5"

Bell, Mike 6' 8¾" 6' 9¼" 206.2 7' 1½" 8' 8½"

Bogut, Andrew 6' 11" 7' 0¼" 250.6 7' 3" 9' 2½"

Brown, Dee 5' 11" 6' 0" 179.0 6' 2" 7' 10"

Bynum, Will 5' 10½" 5' 11½" 188.8 6' 3½" 7' 9"

Campbell, Marcus 6' 10¼" 7' 0¼" 280.4 7' 6" 9' 6"

Conroy, Will 6' 1" 6' 2" 188.6 6' 3" 8' 0½"

Coppenrath, Taylor 6' 7¾" 6' 9¼" 252.4 6' 11½" 8' 10½"

Diener, Travis 5' 11¾" 6' 1" 165.2 5' 11¾" 7' 9½"

Diogu, Ike 6' 6½" 6' 8" 255.4 7' 3½" 9' 1"

Dorsey, Daryl 5' 11¼" 6' 0½" 160.8 5' 11½" 7' 10"

Ellis, Monta 6' 2¼" 6' 3¼" 176.6 6' 2¾" 8' 2"

Felton, Raymond 5' 11½" 6' 0¼" 199.4 6' 4¼" 8' 2"

Fernandez, Rudy 6' 4¾" 6' 6" 172.0 6' 7½" 8' 5½"

Fischer, D'Or 6' 9¼" 6' 10½" 242.4 7' 6" 9' 2½"

Fobbs, Eddy 6' 10¼" 6' 11¼" 235.2 7' 6¾" 9' 3½"

Ford, Sharrod 6' 7¼" 6' 8¼" 212.8 7' 1½" 8' 10"

Francis, Torin 6' 8¾" 6' 10" 251.8 7' 1" 9' 0½"

Frye, Channing 6' 9½" 6' 10½" 243.6 7' 2½" 9' 2½"

Gai, Deng 6' 7¾" 6' 9¼" 214.0 7' 4½" 9' 2½"

Garcia, Francisco 6' 5¾" 6' 7" 189.6 6' 10¾" 8' 7"

Gilchrist, John 6' 1¼" 6' 2½" 195.2 6' 9¼" 8' 0½"

Gortat, Marcin 6' 11" 7' 0" 225.2 7' 3½" 9' 2"

Graham, Joey 6' 5¼" 6' 6½" 216.6 6' 8" 8' 8"

Granger, Danny 6' 7½" 6' 8½" 225.4 7' 1½" 8' 7"

Green, Gerald 6' 6" 6' 7¼" 192.0 6' 9¾" 8' 8"

Hayes, Chuck 6' 5½" 6' 6¾" 232.4 6' 10" 8' 8½"

Head, Luther 6' 2" 6' 3" 178.8 6' 5¼" 8' 2½"

Hodge, Julius 6' 6" 6' 7" 202.2 7' 0½" 8' 11½"

Homan, Jared 6' 7¾" 6' 8¾" 248.2 7' 1¼" 8' 8½"

Ilyasova, Ersan 6' 7¾" 6' 9" 208.8 7' 1¼" 9' 1½"

Jack, Jarrett 6' 2½" 6' 3½" 197.6 6' 7½" 8' 4"

Jones, Dwyane 6' 8½" 6' 10" 242.2 7' 2¾" 9' 0½"

Katelynas, Mindaugas 6' 7½" 6' 8½" 217.0 6' 11" 8' 9½"

Klotz, Jason 6' 8½" 6' 9¾" 249.4 6' 10" 8' 11½"

Krauser, Carl 5' 11½" 6' 0¾" 193.4 6' 5½" 8' 2½"

Langford, Keith 6' 2¼" 6' 3½" 203.2 6' 9" 8' 5"

Lee, David 6' 7¾" 6' 9" 229½ 7' 0" 8' 10½"

Lucas, David 6' 6½" 6' 7¾" 233.4 7' 0" 8' 7½"

Lucas, John 5' 9¼" 5' 10½" 154.4 6' 0" 7' 8"

Manuel, Jackie 6'4¼" 6' 5½" 188.2 6' 11¼" 8' 7½"

Marshall, Rawle 6' 4½" 6' 5¾" 186.6 7' 1" 8' 8"

Maxiell, Jason 6' 5" 6' 6¼" 257.6 7' 3¼" 8' 11"

May, Sean 6' 7" 6' 8½" 258.8 7' 1¼" 8' 9"

McCants, Rashad 6' 2¾" 6' 4" 201.0 6' 10¾" 8' 7½"

McFarlin, Ivan 6' 5½" 6' 6¾" 228.6 6' 9" 8' 9½"

Mendez, Juan 6' 5¼" 6' 6¾" 231.4 7' 0" 8' 10½"

Mensah-Bonsu, Pops 6' 7¼" 6' 8¾" 226.6 7' 0" 8' 9"

Miles, Aaron 6' 0" 6' 1½" 174.6 6' 3½" 7' 10"

Myles, Ellis 6' 6" 6' 7¼" 255.2 6' 9¾" 8' 9½"

O'Bannon, Larry 6' 3" 6' 4¼" 196.0 6' 6" 8' 3½"

Pasalic, Drago 6' 9½" 6' 11" 238.8 6' 11¾" 9' 0½"

Paul, Chris 5' 11¾" 6' 1" 178.0 6' 4¼" 7' 9"

Pittsnogle, Kevin 6' 9¼" 6' 10¼" 259.2 6' 10½" 8' 10"

Powell, Carlos 6' 5¼" 6' 6¾" 221.8 6' 10¾" 8' 9"

Powell, Roger 6' 4¾" 6' 6" 218.6 6' 11½" 8' 8"

Price, Ronnie 6' 0¾" 6' 2¼" 184.8 6' 5½" 8' 0½"

Roberson, Anthony 6' 0¾" 6' 2½" 178.8 6' 2¾" 7' 11"

Rush, Brandon 6' 5" 6' 6½" 211.4 6' 11¼" 8' 8½"

Schenscher, Luke 6' 11¾" 7' 1½" 241.6 7' 5" 9' 3½"

Simien, Wayne 6' 7¼" 6' 9" 255.8 7' 0" 8' 11"

Simmons, Tre 6' 4" 6' 5" 194.2 6' 7½" 8' 6½"

Simon, David 6' 8" 6' 9½" 258.8 7' 3½" 9' 0"

Slaughter, Marcus 6' 6¾" 6' 8" 213.4 6' 11" 8' 8½"

Smith, Steven 6' 7¼" 6' 8¾" 235.6 7' 0" 8' 10"

Stoudamire, Salim 6' 0" 6' 1¼" 185.6 6' 4" 8' 0½"

Taft, Chris 6' 8½" 6' 9½" 261.0 7' 1¾" 9' 1"

Thomas, Chris 5' 11¾" 6' 1" 176.2 6' 3" 7' 11"

Thomas, Omar 6' 3¼" 6' 4½" 200.0 6' 8" 8' 6"

Thompson, Dijon 6' 6¼" 6' 8" 195.8 6' 9¾" 8' 9½"

Turiaf, Ronny 6' 8" 6' 9¼" 237.8 7' 1½" 8' 10½"

Villanueva, Charlie 6' 9" 6' 9½" 236.6 7' 0¼" 9' 1"

Warrick, Hakim 6' 7¼" 6' 8½" 215.0 7' 2" 9' 0"

Webster, Martell 6' 6" 6' 7½" 229.6 6' 11" 8' 10"

Whaley, Robert 6' 8" 6' 9" 269.4 7' 2" 9' 0"

Williams, Deron 6' 1¾" 6' 2¾" 202.4 6' 6¼" 8' 2"

Williams, Eric 6' 7" 6' 8½" 282.0 7' 4" 9' 0½"

Williams, Jawad 6' 7" 6' 8" 218.0 7' 1¼" 8' 10½"

Williams, Marvin 6' 7" 6' 8¼" 228.2 7' 3½" 9' 0"

Wright, Antoine 6' 5¼" 6' 6¼" 202.6 6' 8¾" 8' 8½"

Wright, Bracey 6' 1¼" 6' 2½" 186.8 6' 10" 8' 4½"

Average: 6' 5½" 6' 6.8" 216.7 6' 10½" 8' 8.0"

Maximum: 7' 1¼" 7' 3" 282.0 7' 6¾" 9' 6"

Mininum: 5' 9¼" 5' 10½" 154.4 5' 11½" 7' 8"

[Lascar78]

Notice Sean May at 6'7" too

The fact is that in the NBA we are used to hearing about in-shoe heights. Players seem shorter when you hear their actual heights.

[Iman]

The official measurements outta the predraft camp always measure everyone shorter than you'd think. By drafting Marvin we now have a team loaded with 6'8-6'9 skill players and a few nicely fitting role players in my mind. We can put four of those skill players on the court and still have one on the bench. We use a traditional center to start the game and most of the game against the few teams with true centers. We exchange the center for Salim or Delk when we need scoring and instead we use Lue if we want more ball movement, etc. I like it! I would have rather drafted a good center but I'm not sure Bogut was it. Deron Williams may be slow for the NBA, Paul may be small. I would have definitely taken Marvin. We also now dont have to overpay to keep Al, and we can trade him if a good deal comes up.

Whichever of these guys we play at PF is gonna be a little small and soft for the position. We need to find a big rebounding center to help out. If not we'll be like we were with Reef and Theo, soft up the middle. Not drafting Marvin would not have solved this problem. Maybe we would have decided to go after a center instead of JJ but I didnt trust any of the centers out there anyways.

Given reach, age, height, etc, I see the forward duo of Marvin and Smoove being something like maybe having Kenyon Martin and Rasheed Wallace with a little bit of Jamal Mashburn blended in. That works for me. Still needs a good center. I'm not as non-positional as we make BK out to be but I do think that both Marvin and Smoove can defend PF's, I just wonder which will develop the best post scoring ability.

[Nicholasp27]

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and instead we use Lue if we want more ball movement, etc.

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the ball movement DIES when lue is on the court!

he passes to someone in bad position-> they pass back to him-> he passes to someone else in bad position-> they take their man one-on-one or pass back to lue, who then takes his man one-on-one

he got assists and points for this very reason...it was either him taking the shot or a player he just passed to taking the shot...there was no ball movement between players...

[gsuteke]

some of these guys must look really weird if you stand next to them. take Marv for instance. he's 6 foot 7, but his wingspan is 7 foot 3. that's out of proportion bigtime.

[mrhonline]

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First, if you insist it is only "potentially" that Smoove plays Pf full-time, then who out of Smoove, Chill, and Marvin go to the bench long-term if he isn't?

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Explain that to me fully. I'm not understanding why there's a problem there.

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Smith at 6'9" with much shorter arms similarly shouldn't be asked to be a full-time Pf.

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He has a 7'0 wingspan. How is that short?

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Truth is that Marvin is relegated to the Sf position because of his height (not because his skills ontherwise dictate he play there)

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Not true.

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and Smoove should be because his best chance to be a star is at Sf. How many all-star Pfs are 6'9" or less?

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Depends on what measurements you believed. IMO, there have been 6'9 centers who were All-Stars.

Regardless, how many All-Star SF's can't shoot or dribble? I don't buy this "best chance to be a star" argument. Smith's game is not developed enough to lock him into a certain position.

[Guest Walter]

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I don't buy this "best chance to be a star" argument. Smith's game is not developed enough to lock him into a certain position.

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Far better to be big for your position than small (i.e. that's why Josh Childress is more appealing and has more upside as a Sg than Sf despite lacking a shot currently)...to develop as a big man takes MUCH longer (when was the last Sf to enter the NBA, made into a top POWER forward?).

Currently, Josh is a slasher and a WEAKSIDE post defender. He may not be developed enough skill-wise for his skills to determine his best position, but as I have shown 6'9" and under 250 lbs make for a less than top 10 Pf in this league (while being attributes for a Sf) and learning the intricacies of post offense is harder/takes longer than from the perimeter.

W

[mrhonline]

Stromile Swift and Kenyon Martin are perfect examples of athletic PF's who don't necessarily have the "prototypical" PF game.

Swift still struggles offensively and Martin didn't begin to be an offensive presence until he was 21 or 22.

It's simply too early to tell.

[Diesel]

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when was the last Sf to enter the NBA, made into a top POWER forward?

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Bob, I will take Charles Barkley for $500...

Actually, I will take Antonio McDyess for $50... well, I wouldn't call him top PF.

Here you go... Robert Horry for $50.. Then again, he's not top either.

The point is you must be from Alabama to pull something like that off.

Really, I think Charles Barkley is the last guy to come in as a Sf and become a top Pf. The reason is because Barkley was barely 6'5". It made no sense to call him a PF at 6'5"... However, it proves the arguement... Being a PF is more about Style and not height. Charles knew how to use his weight to push much bigger guys around and was a demon for rebounds. Charles also had MANY low post moves. I think this is what you will see in Ike.

BUT...

Most times, guys who are slashers ARE NOT banger. So guys who are slashers are not PFs.

[mrhonline]

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BUT...

Most times, guys who are slashers ARE NOT banger. So guys who are slashers are not PFs.

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By that definition, quite a few PF's (esp. the European types) are not PF's.

While I think Knight takes his philosophy too far, I do agree that the NBA has etched its "positions" onto tablets of stone when there is some degree of flexibility.

To me, it's all about defense. I couldn't care less what the Hawks' "PF" does on offense.

[vdunkndunk]

New member here. I've been posting for a while on RealGM and recently decided to join over here at HawksSquawk. As far as Marvin Williams' future ability to play PF, one thing that sticks out to me is that, although Marvin is all of 4 inches shorter than Andrew Bogut, his standing reach is only 2 inches shorter. And to me, standing reach is far more important than height.

[Diesel]

Interesting... But Defense is probably the most versatile thing...

The offense is what makes a player. A good defensive player will be a good defensive player most of the time... This is why Christie can defend the 1, 2, and 3. However, that's not what makes him more 1 and the other. What makes a player is his offensive tools. IF a player has a midrange jumper, he's probably going to be a Sf and not a PF... For a reference see Big Dog. Big Dog was 6'8" 240 and SLOW... but he didn't play any PF... The reason being is because his game is not suited for PF. He does nothing like a pro PF offensively. Plus he's just as bad defending 4 as he is defending 3s... So it's the offensive ability that determines position.

It's like having a SG that can't shoot.

[Diesel]

I agree with you about Height not being so important. Still... Standing reach is not a variable to determine position either. It's all about style of play.

Let's give the example.

Josh Childress' wingspan is 7'0.

MW may have a 7'3 Wingspan.

Scottie Pippen was measured to have a 7'5" wingspan!! That's the same as Yao Ming's...

That tells me he can put his hands on the floor flat while standing up.

Does this mean I want Pip guarding the opposing center? Of course not.

Style! Style! Style...

Marvin right now has the style of a Sf.

[mrhonline]

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For a reference see Big Dog. Big Dog was 6'8" 240 and SLOW... but he didn't play any PF... The reason being is because his game is not suited for PF. He does nothing like a pro PF offensively.

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On a side note, San Antonio played Big _og at PF for a few minutes late in the season (in garbage time) and, from what I saw, he was even worse at defending PF's.

He was like, "You mean I have to jump for rebounds? Box out? What do you mean, box out?"

Seriously, when a player can't defend any position well AND has a limited offensive game, he's not a "tweener," but a "liability." Big _og, at this point in his career, is a liability - a role player at best.

(Those were the good ol' days, huh? I miss his mid-range jumper and total lack of anything else of substance).

[mrhonline]

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Interesting... But Defense is probably the most versatile thing...

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I have this unshakable belief that a great defensive team can win despite other liabilities (e.g., The Pistons).

Look at the Pistons - they were successful even before getting Sheed. What were they? A long, tough, athletic team that created defensive matchup problems for opponents. They have no true PG, poor outside shooting, and an undersized center. In fact, their PG is more of a SG, their SF plays like a PF at times, and their CE can't hit a 6 ft. jump shot.

If the new Hawks' team can grow into a tough defensive team, I think they can be moderately successful. However, if they're going to ever be a top team, they're going to need a dominant inside player, preferably on defense (a la Ben Wallace).

[JTFan31]

Yes but watching Marvin last year as a freshman, as an 18 year old kid, this kid will be something else. He is 6'8, ok fine he is not 6'10, but he has the reach of a 6'10 - 6'11 player. He has very good post moves and he is also very aggressive around the basket. He also plays very good defense and he is just 19 years old

I truly believe Marvin will be our power forward of the future and Smoove our Sf of the future.

[Nicholasp27]

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Scottie Pippen was measured to have a 7'5" wingspan!! That's the same as Yao Ming's...

That tells me he can put his hands on the floor flat while standing up.

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????

wingspan is from fingertip to fingertip...how does 7'5" wingspan make his arms 6'+ in length each to enable him to put his hands on the floor?

[Nicholasp27]

maybe on offense marvin will spend more time in the post than smoove...but on defense, it better be smoove on the other team's interior player

[MoonKnight]

I know you like to compare Marvin to TT but some might compare his game style to a more athletic A. Walker. A. Walker has primarily played the 4 spot at 6'8" with short arms and made an all star team playing the position. While I am no A. Walker fan by any means I do see some similiar traits though a true comparison should only be made after Marvin has actually played in a NBA game. I still think in time it is very likely that Marvin will play the 4 spot and Jsmoove will play the 3 (I love Jsmoove's weakside D at the 3). BK himself has said JSmoove is a 3 who might grow into a 4. I don't know if BK meant physically grow or if he meant JSmoove's game might grow into a power forward's game. Either way folks, this is all simply speculation until we see how the pieces fit on the Court.

[Packfill]

I would not count on either Smoove or Marvin growing any. Almost everyone I know, including myself, was full grown by the time they turned 19. They can definitely pack on some pounds, but as far as height goes I doubt they grow an inch.