It is time for BK to go

[exodus]

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in essence you are saying Marvin will be a much better player than Paul in the future? If so, Paul is one year older than Marvin, why isn't Marvin that good of player now, why is going to take him so much longer to be better than Paul?????

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I just checked Marvins stats on 82games.com and a whopping 59% of his in close attempts are getting blocked. 30% of his dunk attempts are blocked.

His whole game on offense is just catch and shoot jumpers or putbacks. I haven't seen one good move off the dribble or in the post for a score yet. Not one.

[Packfill]

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It's going to be real interesting what some of you are going to say when Marvin is averaging 23 and 9 in a couple of years while Chris Paul is topped out at around 16 and 6.

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Who cares if he averages "23 and 9" if the team wins 35 games. I will take Paul and his "16 and 6" if he uses his passing accument to turn Smoove and Childress into 20 point scorers and the "Team" into a title contender.

Talent means crap if it does not work together. At some point BK has to put together a team that works together and hire a coach that utilizes that talent to win games.

I give him until next off season to start building a "team" instead of a collection of talent.

[Nicholasp27]

our odds of getting marvin+rondo are much higher than getting paul+gay

if we end up getting rondo or another 'paul's level' pg this draft or feb or summer, then it'll have been good to get marvin, as we can't likely get his talent in the near future again...if we never get our pg and marvin doesn't become jordan jr, then that'll be bad

[exodus]

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another 'paul's level' pg this draft or feb or summer,

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LOL yeah those Paul level pgs are so easy to get.

Maybe Santa will leave one under BK's Christmas tree.

[DJlaysitup]

Whether BK should go or not I don't know...but I'll always remember when Steak Shapiro interviewed him the day after the draft on 790thezone...after awhile SS mentioned the second round pick and BK actually thought that by drawing the 2nd pick in the lottery that we had also dropped to the 2nd pick in the 2nd round. There was a pregnant pause on the air. BK didn't even know how the 2nd round of the draft worked. Reprint of my email to Steak below:

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you are so right....they get the 1st pick in the 2nd round...

Steak

-----Original Message-----

From: ......David

Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 9:47 AM

To: Stephen Shapiro

Subject: All I Needed...Hawks

Steak,

I learned all I needed to know about the future of the Hawks when Billy Knight advised you that the Hawks no longer have the 31st pick in the draft (1st in the second round). Apparently Milwaukee won that also on some sort of side bet…..lol.

Dave

[Packfill]

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our odds of getting marvin+rondo are much higher than getting paul+gay

if we end up getting rondo or another 'paul's level' pg this draft or feb or summer, then it'll have been good to get marvin, as we can't likely get his talent in the near future again...if we never get our pg and marvin doesn't become jordan jr, then that'll be bad

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So the GM should make a decision on who to draft in the lottery based on who they intend to pick in the lottery the following season? I am not following.

If Paul is as good as he has played so far then we do not need Marvin or Gay because Al, Smoove and Childress will all be much improved due to superior point guard play.

There is no guarantee the Hawks get a shot at Rondo - nd Rondo is shaping up as the only point guard worth a lottery selection (and please don't tell me about non-point guards Gibson, Brewer, the guy in Miami, etc.).

[Lascar78]

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So the GM should make a decision on who to draft in the lottery based on who they intend to pick in the lottery the following season? I am not following.

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When a good GM considers a pick, he also considers how long it will take him to develop. If you are hitting rock-bottom of re-building, picking a long term project is likely to mean that you get a better pick the next year whereas a more established player will help you win games immediately. I don't know if BK thinks that far ahead, but it's certainly possible.

It's much like Detroit picking Darko because they knew that they already had a championship contender, and they could afford to wait, whereas they probably would have taken Melo if they thought that he was the missing piece at that point in time.

[exodus]

How much have they gotten from Darko? How much would they have gotten from Carmelo, Wade, Bosh?

If Darko does ever produce it will likely be for another team. You don't pick at project at 2.

[Lascar78]

How Darko turned out is irrelevant. My point is that teams consider how ready a player is before drafting them.

[Diesel]

Exactly..

The Second pick overall is the worst place in the world to pick a project...

I think we will be the posterteam for bad drafting for years...

[exodus]

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My point is that teams consider how ready a player is before drafting them.

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Just because they consider it doesn't make them right. Detroit was obviously wrong. So was Atlanta. I didn't know much about Marvin when they picked him but it is clear now he is extremely limited in what he can do. Maybe he will come around eventually but it is a crapshoot.

And please don't try to argue that Darko will be better than Bosh or Wade. Maybe Carmelo but that is still a reach.

Detroit would have been better off with any one of those 3.

Actually they would probably be back to back champs right now.

[pathway23]

speaking of BK's attempt to get Jack for Diaw + #31 pick, I'm sure a GM picking in Jarret Jack's draft range would do it now if he could do it over again...and we'd have Jarret Jack instead of Salim...and perhaps JJ would be ending up here anyway?

[exodus]

I remember reading somewhere that Portland was asking for the Boston/LA pick for the pick they used on Jack. BK said he didn't want to give up what might be the 11th pick. He said they wouldn't be getting good value.

Was Childress at 6 a good value? Was the JJ deal a good value?

[chillzatl]

pretty much agree otherwise.. But I think that Paul has already showed that he WILL be great. A guy who can average 16/7/5 and effectively run your team offensively, is priceless. If that's all he ever averages, he won't be a HOF player. But he'll be a great player to whatever team he's on.

[DeacKillsaDevil]

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The GM's job is to get the best talent he can get. Billy has done that without question. Getting super talented players like Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, and Josh Smith while also getting guys who will be good role players in Josh Childress and Zaza Pachulia.

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Great! All of that talent will amount to maybe 10 wins.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Nic and I are in total agreement about this team and this lineup.

The problem with us, outside of the obvious needs at PG and C, is that we're not maximizing the skills of our players. That goes straight to coaching.

Smoove is a guy with a schizophrenic jumper, and has no 3-point range with his shot. Yet, we constantly play him at the 3. If his strengths are his athleticism, why not put him at a position in which he may can exploit some less athletic 4's . . like Shawn Marion does in Phoenix?

Smoove right now is probably closer to Eddie Griffin than anybody else in the league. Eddie is a 6-10 forward that wants to be Dirk Nowitski. Unlike Smoove, he does have 3-ball range . . just not accurate range from there. But his new coach in Minny is forcing him to play the 4 and 5 spots, seeing that Minny is a lot like us in their deficiency of bigs.

In about 20 minutes of play, Griffin is averaging an amazing 2.5 blocks and 6.5 rebounds a game.

I'm just amazed that this coaching staff can't see how they waste Smoove's ability to block shots and rebound, when he's out on the perimeter guarding some 3 who is jumpshot happy, thus, taking Smoove away from the basket to get rebounds and blocks.

Neither Harrington nor Smoove are good on the ball defenders, whether in the post or out on the wing. But at least Smoove gives you a guy who can swat a layup from a PG away or be that weak side helper for ZaZa. But this coaching staff is too set in their ways to change their thinking about anything.

And before any of you start to nit pick about Smoove's post game, let me say this. Who says that Smoove has to have a post game at all, to be effective? I would love to see Smoove become a "garbage man" type player, getting his points via put backs, tips, and lob passes for dunks. And he can always take that 12 - 15 footer.

Harrington already plays like a 3 most of the time anyway. So it would only be natural to move Smoove to the 4, and see if he can have more of an impact on the game from that spot.

I think before things get any better around here, these coaches are really going to have to play to these player's strengths, not some "play the right way BS" vision that they have.

I want Smoove to turn into this guy:

http://databasebasketball.com/players/play...ilkid=NANCELA01

He possesses the same types of skills as he did. All we need now, is a coach who can mold him into this type of player.

[tmac13]

Its a GM's job to build a winning team..Period..BK is 82-260 as a GM..Nuff said

[TheDude]

if he had passed on marvin williams to pick chris "everyone was saying he would get worked by bigger guards" paul although every analyst thought marvin williams would be the next superstar out of this draft, people would have been calling for his head...

marvin was never thought to do more than he is now..i'm not sure where you guys got your information but he was going to take some time to develop.

[exodus]

These last two games have made is so obvious that Josh Smith should play the 4 and Harrington the 3 that I don't think even the Hawks coaches can miss it.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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if he had passed on marvin williams to pick chris "everyone was saying he would get worked by bigger guards" paul although every analyst thought marvin williams would be the next superstar out of this draft, people would have been calling for his head...

marvin was never thought to do more than he is now..i'm not sure where you guys got your information but he was going to take some time to develop.

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I don't think this was meant for me, seeing that I was talking about Smoove.

But to your point, I'll say this. One of the things I've always liked about younger guys coming into the NBA, is that they learn how to play an NBA style game, instead of being schooled in a "college system", then having to change their game to fit the NBA style.

That's why you can have a great college player, that turns out to be a scrub in the NBA. That was the book on Battier . . great college player, will only be a good NBA player at best. And that's exactly what Battier is.

Meanwhile, Elton Brand and Corey Maggettee, who only stayed 2 and 1 year respectively, have improved steadily since entering the NBA. With Brand, he's on the verge of becoming the next big star in the league. With Maggettee, he was on that borderline star level last year, but has tailed off this year.

That's why people need to keep their heads up about Marvin. More times than not, these high school and 1st and 2nd year college players will struggle when they initially enter the league. But by year 3 or 4, they have the look of being a good to borderline star player. Some even become stars after that 1st year.

4 year college players are usually more basketball polished and fundamentally sound. But the early entry guys are the ones that usually turn out to be the superstars in the league.