Trying to figure out my MVP vote...

[chillzatl]

Look at most of those guys career shooting %'s. 44%, 45%... every year you have a handful of guys who shoot significantly better. On average you do not.

What groupie mentality is that? The one that has watched the NBA for years and knows that 45% is considered a good, above average fg% for top tier shooting guards in the NBA? I don't need you to dig up stats for me for that. I know it already. Shooting guards who consistantly shoot better than that are rare and among that small group, few of them can be considered anywhere near the same level as Kobe, despite a few points on their fg%.

[exodus]

to determine the MVP award? I didn't think so. I think you may be confused or it is just a persistent typo but Kobe isn't shooting 45% this year and hasn't since 2003.

You may not be aware of this but they recently changed the rules outlawing the hand check, which has given a huge advantage to guards who can beat their men off the dribble.

Since you have such an extensive knowlege of basketball maybe you can tell me the last time 3 perimeter players averaged over 30 ppg, because I don't know.

[chillzatl]

conversation was? Or are you just spouting off stats and rule changes to give yourself something to do?

The point here was that I thikn Kobe is the MVP right now. It's cemented when they make the playoffs. You didn't say one way or the other. All you would do is post confused little emoticons when I suggested that he's shooting a good fg% for a shooting guard. I said that 45% (or OMG 44.3% a HUGE difference) is considered good for shooting guards in the NBA. It is definitely good enough, considering everything else, to make him MVP this year. You obviously didn't agree and felt the need to go on and on challenging my notion that 45% is generally considered very good for a top tier SG.

Nothing has changed. I still say that 45% for a shooting guard is good, 44.3% is equally as good. That percentage would put him right in line with practically every other top tier SG of this and the last generation. Drexler, Reggie miller, Mitch Richmond, Ray Allen, Allen Houston, etc, etc etc. All top tier SG's, some regarded as "excellent" shooters at their positions, all considered among the best of their time and all right at 45%.

As far as perimter players averaging 30ppg. It's probably been a while. Typically there are only one or two at the 30ppg mark with one or two in the 27-29 range. Here's a fact for you, most of them tend to shoot around 45%.

[exodus]

Is 34% a good shooting percentage from 3?

[chillzatl]

It's not great or anything and I would consider that person an average 3pt shooter. but it's a decent number. 40% and up from 3 is where you start going from average to exceptional. It's rare for anyone to shoot 40% or better for their career. You'll have guys get close to 50% for a season or two over the course of their careers. When you judge it in that context, 34% isn't bad at all.

[exodus]

Kobe has never been a 3 pt shooter. This year before the season Jackson was saying that Kobe should take fewer 3s. Early in the year Kobe obliged. However now he is averaging about 6 3 pointers a game.

Kobe can get anywhere on the floor any time he wants, assuming he isn't doubled. However waaaayyyy to often he stands in one place dribbling between his legs and then jacks up a long range shot, many times early in the clock.

That is EXACTLY what the other team wants him to do. He just has no concept of shot selection.

[chillzatl]

but when he's up there dribbling, it's not like he's counting seconds before he's going to shoot. he's looking for an opening, looking for a pass, weighing his options. It's not like he has a plethora of talent around him to give him more options. If he doesn't see anything and doesn't feel he can drive, he has to shoot. There's nobody else on that team that I would want chucking up shots becuase the other guys can't make somethign happen and I'm sure Jackson agrees.

The flip side to that is yes, he could get to the basket practically any time he chooses. If he did so, the people that bash him for one thing, would then change and bash him because all he does is drive to the basket. And even still, he would be taking too many shots.

Like I said, it's easy for us to judge from the comfort of the sofa. It's entirely different when you're out there having to get it done. Kobe gets it done. This year he's getting it done at a level that hasn't been done since Jordans first two seasons in the league. If that leads to his team making the playoffs, that's MVP caliber in my book.

[exodus]

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If that leads to his team making the playoffs, that's MVP caliber in my book.

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Yeah but the voters are a different story. How many times has the MVP been awarded to a guy on a team that wasn't top 3 in the conference?

Kobe would have to have an overwhelming season to win it. When the voters look at the other candidates, all of whom are shooting much better than Kobe, he will basically have no chance.

I am not arguing that he isn't a great player.

[DJlaysitup]

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Look at most of those guys career shooting %'s. 44%, 45%... every year you have a handful of guys who shoot significantly better. On average you do not...

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...and of course, the MVP should be awarded to someone within that handfull (IMHO)

[chillzatl]

so following that logic, fg% is the definitive stat for who should or should not be MVP? Few of that handful have overall stats deserving of mention. Nash would be one of the few and Wade, though he's arguably down at the bottom.

That's flawed logic.

[Traceman]

Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers

Kobe Bryant is the best player in the game.

Forget that his team is hovering around .500 and forget the notion he must make his teammates better to be MVP. It takes time for a team to adjust to working with a player whose game is at such a high level, and vice-versa. MJ was once the only one playing at that high a frequency, and it took time to assemble the right team that fit him.

And forget the numbers, as impressive as they are. Let's go by what we see: a man going full out from tip-off, bringing a single-minded approach to each possession. On defense, he guards the other team's best player, whether it's Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups or Steve Nash.

It's hard to find anybody in better condition. That's hard work and a commitment to excellence. We can't forget that. He's the MVP. -- B.J. Armstrong

[Traceman]

all agree with you. Here is what Legler says:

Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns

Steve Nash in a landslide. His phenomenal numbers don't begin to tell the story of his impact. The Phoenix Suns won 62 games last season and underwent arguably more change than any team in the NBA during the offseason.

Yet they are on pace for 56 wins again because the replacements -- James Jones, Raja Bell and Boris Diaw, castoffs from other teams -- are having career years. That's a direct result of playing alongside Nash, the NBA's most unselfish point guard.

Of course, he has had help from Shawn Marion, an MVP candidate himself, but the Suns are a shadow of themselves when Nash doesn't play. He has the ability to beat you with his passing, his scoring and his mind.

Is there any player in the league that other guys would cherish the opportunity to play with more than Steve Nash? Absolutely not.

-- Tim Legler

[DJlaysitup]

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so following that logic, fg% is the definitive stat for who should or should not be MVP?

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Well definitive? ?? Making baskets is a pretty large part of basketball. The team with the higher FG% usually wins. Winning is the goal. The player who best helps his team wins should be in consideration for the MVP. If that player helps his team (teammates) shoot demonstratively better via assists, that should be taken into consideration too. Gunners can certainly be MVPs - if they are good enough at gunning to make their team a winner. Jury's still out on Kobe in my opinion.

[exodus]

The funny thing is that all of their starters shoot better than Kobe.

Odom and Smush are both shooting 37% from 3 also.

[Plainview1981]

I don't think Kobe's team is good enough... I think it's got to go to a team that's a top 4 or 5 seed... Kobe might be the most value to a team that isn't likely to do anything great.

Kobe therefore is the most important player on a team that isn't really going to accomplish much of anything. I've defended Kobe plenty of times, but I don't think he's the MVP this year.

Who has won the MVP without their team being a top 5 in the conference? I don't think that many have.

[AHF]

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Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers

Kobe Bryant is the best player in the game.

Forget that his team is hovering around .500 and forget the notion he must make his teammates better to be MVP. It takes time for a team to adjust to working with a player whose game is at such a high level, and vice-versa. MJ was once the only one playing at that high a frequency, and it took time to assemble the right team that fit him.

And forget the numbers, as impressive as they are. Let's go by what we see: a man going full out from tip-off, bringing a single-minded approach to each possession. On defense, he guards the other team's best player, whether it's Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups or Steve Nash.

It's hard to find anybody in better condition. That's hard work and a commitment to excellence. We can't forget that. He's the MVP. -- B.J. Armstrong

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The flaw I have with this logic is that MJ didn't get or deserve the MVP until he made his teammates better and starting improving the overall team to the point that the Bulls were among the elite in the league. I think Bryant needs to concentrate on doing the same.

One of the best players and very valuable to his team, but I am not sure how much Kobe has distinguished himself from AI this year who also has been dazzling individually for a poor team that right now projects to squeak in as an 8th seed. Kobe and his team have been a little better but not by that much and I wouldn't think about giving AI the MVP this year.