I was right! - thread locked, enough already

chillzatl · April 5, 2006

Their numbers aren't comparable and apart from a loaded Detroit team, Rasheed hasn't had any more success or gotten any further in the post season than Dirk. Are you honestly going to tell me that Rasheed isn't "wild and out of control"? He just got suspended for the X time in his career for getting too many technicals in a season. He's proven over his career to be immature and that he lacks the ability to control his emotions on the court.

The fact that you would even try to shrug that off, as if it's some sort of media built hype, is absurd, even for you. I know this blackhawkdown caricature you've built depends on internet anonymity to voice its opinions. But that is ridiculous.

Diesel · April 5, 2006

You make a big deal about fouls.

However, since 1999, Rasheed has averaged less fouls per game than Dirk?

Every year.

As far as the technical fouls go... I think mostly reputation, mostly subjection and You really give Credence to BHD's standpoint if you argue on the basis of technical fouls.. I mean for goodness Sake, Rasheed gets technical fouls that no other players get... I think it's based on reputation, but it could be a race element..

Check this out:

Quote:

The NBA rescinded Monday night's infamous technical, drawn in the second quarter

for Wallace smiling and laughing after Cavaliers center Zydrunas Ilgauskas delivered a hard foul.

The Pistons appealed to the league office, and the ruling came down Tuesday.

WTF? This has shades of the playoff game where the refs teed up Sheed for looking at him. Come on man.. that's not about anything other than the ref giving a technical because you're Rasheed and I can.

[image]http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20060301&Category=SPORTS0102&ArtNo=603010316&Ref=H3&Profile=1127Q=100&MaxW=250[/image]

This is a technical..

[image]http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/gems/steve-nash-dirk-nowitzki-drunk-drunk-drunk.jpg[/image]

and this is not?

chillzatl · April 5, 2006

I said technical fouls. I haven't once, in the course of this discussion, mentioned normal fouls.

he gets technicals that nobody else gets becuase he tries to be cute and show people up. I was watching the game where he got the "infamous smiling technical" and I can understand why they did it. Was it harsh? yes. But when you consider his history of trying to show up refs, I understand it. Glaring at someone with a smile on your face is STILL glaring at them. There is no race element. Suggesting such is simply turning a blind eye to the history of immature actions by Rasheed Wallace. It was based entirely on reputation and his consistant attempts to show up the refs without showing them up.

He gets the same treatment that Rodman got and Rodman had the exact same methods.

AHF · April 5, 2006

Quote:

In addition, Wallace has always had attitude issues (internal team strife at its worst and excessive technicals at its best) which takes away from the image of him as a team leader.

Chris Bozworth, Jeremy Shocky run their mouths .....they are confident

Sheed, Keyshawn Johnson run their mouths.....attitude problem

Bozworth had the worst attitude problem of all these guys.

Sheed at his worst is next but as a Piston is probably the best because he doesn't hurt his team with it. Keyshawn and Shockey are in similar boats where their egos are bigger than their games. You may distinguish between these guys based on race but I don't.

AHF · April 5, 2006

Quote:

Ever consider that white benefit from AA.....

Are you saying that grade inflation that is rampant at Ivy league schools is the same thing as AA? That makes no sense. People of all races are equally "benefited" by grade inflation at schools that inflate or equally "harmed" at schools that don't.

Quote:

98% Blacks used to attend HBCUs not only 49% do.......What you mean black people dont have to go to white colleges? No......You mean they could go to Howard, Meharry or Charles Drew instead of Emory or USC.....No couldnt possibly be.

I am not sure what you are referring to here. I don't think anyone said blacks don't go to colleges with a majority of white students.

Quote:

Oh and by the way in that U.Mich case what you dont realize is that only a small percntage of the applicants @ Michigan are white, any whites that didnt get, all 10 of them, in were borderline anyway.

AA doesnt effect one white single person in a negative way, it only forces institutions that would not let a single black person in to let in a handful.

I cannot figure out how you reach this conclusion. First, how did you decide that "only a small percentage of the applicants at Michigan are white"? That is very hard for me to believe. Moreover, I don't understand how you conclude that AA doesn't affect one single white person in a negative way. It seems obvious that any white person that would have been admitted but for the use of AA was affected negatively.

In the University of Michigan's Law School case, one expert for the University testified that the law school would be 4% minority if AA was not used but with AA 14.5% of the student body would be minorities. That means that students in the ethnic majority received 10.5% fewer seats in the law school class than they would have received without use of race as a factor. Using the same admission standard for applicants of all races would have resulted in the continued admission of minorities, but at a lower %.

In fact, the University's expert testified: "Bowen also

reports that if universities were totally eliminated from considering race during the admissions process, "over half of the black students in selective colleges today would have been rejected." (Id.)."

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But this doesnt help blacks because every black student that goes to a white institution is tution money leaving a historicaly black college or university. Every athlete that wins a national championship for Florida or Texas is taking one from Grambling or South Carolina State.

I agree that making schools more representative of the general population (by AA or any means) will dilute the number of students going to historically black colleges. I'm not sure I see this as quite the bad thing you do, though, particularly when schools like Howard are still outstanding and will be as far as the foreseeable future.

Quote:

So whine all you want but at the end of the day the fact that their white institutions use blacks so that they can have more diverse views in liberal arts studies, give white students exposure to different cultures & religions, and gaurantee that their football and basketball recruits wont be scared to that they are walking into a Klan rally.

I don't know about the "white institutions" label for state schools, etc. that are intended to be serving the entire state population and who admit a cross-section of students but I agree that AA is in place to guarantee more diversity in schools and that schools use athletes of all races for maximum profit for the Universities.

Quote:

But then again I'm just a dumb black gorilla that got by in life due to AA and lowered admissions standards. Yesterday I walked into a bank and they said " Hey here's a bag of money...sorry that we colonized your homeland, benefited from a system of racial oppression and at one point raped 40% of all black females". You know Ni**ers are out of hand, the poor white man has to work 10 times as hard everyday just to get by.

I never said any of that. I've never characterized your background or used the N word in my life.

Stop bringing up racist straw men in this discussion, please.

Diesel · April 5, 2006

Again..

Based on reputation.

look at the rule:

Quote:

Section V--Conduct

a. An official may assess a technical foul, without prior warning, at any time. A technical foul(s) may be assessed to any player on the court or anyone seated on the bench for conduct which, in the opinion of an official, is detrimental to the game. A technical foul cannot be assessed for physical contact when the ball is alive.

EXCEPTION: Fighting fouls and/or taunting with physical contact.

b. A maximum of two technicals for unsportsmanlike acts may be assessed any player, coach or trainer. Any of these offenders may be ejected for committing only one unsportsmanlike act, and they must be ejected for committing two unsports-manlike acts.

c. A technical foul called for (1) delay of game, (2) coaches box violations, (3) defensive 3-seconds, or (4) having a team total of less or more than five players when the ball is alive, or (5) an offensive player hanging on his basket ring or backboard, is not considered an act of unsportsmanlike conduct.

d. A technical foul shall be assessed for unsportsmanlike tactics such as:

(1) Disrespectfully addressing an official

(2) Physically contacting an official

(3) Overt actions indicating resentment to a call

(4) Use of profanity

(5) A coach entering onto the court without permission of an official

(6) A deliberately-thrown elbow or any attempted physical act with no con-tact involved

(7) Taunting

e. Cursing or blaspheming an official shall not be considered the only cause for imposing technical fouls. Running tirades, continuous criticism or griping may be sufficient cause to assess a technical. Excessive misconduct shall result in ejection from the game.

f. Assessment of a technical foul shall be avoided whenever and wherever pos-sible; but, when necessary they are to be assessed without delay or procrastination. Once a player has been ejected or the game is over, technicals cannot be assessed regardless of the provocation. Any additional unsportsmanlike conduct shall be reported by E-mail immediately to the Basketball Operations Department.

g. If a technical foul is assessed to a team following a personal foul on the same team, the free throw attempt for the technical foul shall be administered first.

h. The ball shall be awarded to the team which had possession at the time the technical foul was assessed, whether the free throw attempt is successful or not. Play shall be resumed by a throw-in nearest the spot where play was interrupted.

EXCEPTION: Rule 12A--Section I.

i. Anyone guilty of illegal contact which occurs during a dead ball may be assessed (1) a technical foul, if the contact is deemed to be unsportsmanlike in nature, or (2) a flagrant foul, if unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs.

j. Free throws awarded for a technical foul must be attempted by a player in the game when the technical foul is assessed.

(1) If a substitute has been beckoned into the game or has been recognized by the officials as being in the game prior to a technical foul being assessed, he is eligible to attempt the free throw(s).

(2) If the technical foul is assessed before the opening tap, any player listed in the scorebook as a starter is eligible to attempt the free throw(s).

(3) If a technical foul is assessed before the starting lineup is indicated, any player on the squad may attempt the free throw(s).

k. A technical foul, unsportsmanlike act or flagrant foul must be called for a par-ticipant to be ejected. A player, coach or trainer may be ejected for:

(1) An elbow foul which makes contact shoulder level or below

(2) Any unsportsmanlike conduct where a technical foul is assessed

(3) A flagrant foul where unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs

EXCEPTION: Rule 12A--Section V--l(5)

l. A player, coach or trainer must be ejected for:

(1) A punching foul

(2) A fighting foul

(3) An elbow foul which makes contact above shoulder level

(4) An attempted punch which does not make contact

(5) Deliberately entering the stands other than as a continuance of play

m. Eye guarding (placing a hand in front of the opponent's eyes when guard-ing from the rear) a player who does not have possession of the ball is illegal and an unsportsmanlike technical shall be assessed.

n. A free throw attempt is awarded when one technical foul is assessed.

o. No free throw attempts are awarded when a double technical foul is assessed. Technical fouls assessed to opposing teams during the same dead ball and prior to the administering of any free throw attempt for the first technical foul, shall be interpreted as a double technical foul.

p. The deliberate act of throwing the ball or any object at an official by a player, coach or trainer is a technical foul and violators are subject to ejection from the game.

q. Elbow fouls, which make contact above shoulder level, and punching fouls, although recorded as both personal and team fouls, are unsportsmanlike acts. The player will be ejected immediately.

Where does it say that it's good to give a guy a technical for laughing or smiling after a hard foul??

David Stern's NBA will forcefully silence every critic of their officiating. That's why the technical foul has increased in usage. However, Refs now have too much power and they weld that power how they see fit. Many times, this is done in an uneven manner to say the least. I call it by reputation.. but nobody has ruled out a racial element.

chillzatl · April 5, 2006

anyone that suggests such is simply taking the easy way out rather than expecting people to be accountable for their actions. As is typical when that card is played (see also, cynthia mckinney).

secondly, he wasn't simply laughing or smiling after a hard foul. He was glaring at the ref with a big grin on his face. I saw the game and I felt it was harsh. but I also understand why it was given out. Rasheed likes to test the limits of what he can get away with and the ref was setting the bar for just how little would be tolerated. If the "smiling tech" was a huge mistake, which I don't think it was, you can bet that the ref who handed it out was repremanded for it.

Diesel · April 5, 2006

But see, that's just the problem.

The refs come to the game with all eyes on Rasheed. I have said it a few times before... Rasheed gets as many technicals as he gets because of reputation and the refs loose administration of the technical foul.

It's easy to find something wrong if you're looking for it. Moreover, it makes playing the game as Rasheed harder when you know that the refs have targetted you.

The problem in all of this is what would Dirk play like if he became a target of the ref's technical foul machine? We'll never know because Dirk will never become a victim of that machine. It's not because he's more mature..... but more likely because he will always be given the benefit of the doubt.

Watch the games closely. Rasheed doesn't agree with a ref's call or no call.. Rasheed doesn't say anything.. He gets the technical foul because "he stared" or "he smiled while looking at the ref".

Sometimes, Dirk disagrees with a call and he lets the refs know and he doesn't get a technical.

Don't you think that something is uneven in this picture??

Bottom line, games are not called fairly, but it's all about how the refs feel.

That is why Kobe can draw fouls all day and Joe Johnson gets hit just as much and never gets the call.

Diesel · April 5, 2006

Quote:

Overt actions indicating resentment to a call

Overt is defined as Open and observable; not hidden, concealed, or secret.

When has a stare, smile while starring every been overt???

Plainview1981 · April 5, 2006